Spinoff... gentle discipline & so on...

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

Okay someone mentioned gentle parenting, which made me think of gentle discipline... so all you crunchy/AP mommas, do you spank/believe in spanking?

[geckoed]

we don't think people are made for hitting.

[jennyofthemoon]

Nope. All living creatures deserve respect. Just as I don't allow my kids to hit treest and kick plants, they are not allowed to abuse each other.

On a side note, it really irks me when I see a parent pick up their kid who has just hit another child, whack them and say "don't hit". Talk about a confusing message!:headscratch:

[keegans_mommy]

We use to spank, believed it was the ONLY way to disipline but now we have totally changed!

I think the turning point for me was when I swatted keegan and he swatted me right back! It really, really made me think and I had a complete change of heart. So now we have changed the way we deal with correcting our children and it's helped in some ways and in others we have had to really get creative with consequences but there is always a way to deal with children who are testing their water, parents patience and with them growing up and learning along the way. :)

[Luv2bemommy]

I used to spank.. Seeing is was the way I was brought up, I really didnt know any better? Then I started reading on AP and such and I'm trying SO hard not to spank anymore.. I cant remember the last time one of the kids have gotten a spanking actually.. I do tend to yell alot though, thats something I'm working on..

[MamaStace]

DH and I agree not to spank. Sometimes, in anger (which is the WORST time to spank!) I have swatted dd's bottom. I've always felt awful later. I have a friend who spanks as discipline, and while it seems to work for her, I feel horrible and guilty and miserable after I've tried it. So we use time out. And I also find that I can 90% of the time defuse a situation before it gets to "punishment" level. I see a lot of myself in dd, and I usually hug her when she's getting upset and that helps sooo much. When I put her in time out, she sits for 2 minutes (1 minute for every year of her age) and then we talk about why she's in time out, what to do next time, and then she's "released" with a hug. It's gentle, humane and speaks at her level.

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

see we spanked DSS, once he was old enough (I cannot comprehend ppl who spank a baby) anyhow, not so much anymore, cause I hate it, thing is, once Gavin is old enough, I don't want to either, but I'm afraid hubby will say he's getting different treatment cause he's my own, (since Cody used to get spanked) I dunno how to approach it with him, course it won't be a concern for a few years but I was thinking about it lately

[SheilaJoy]

We don't spank regularly, or for minor offenses. But we do believe it is an appropriate method of discipline sometimes. We also don't think it is inherently wrong because the Bible advocates spanking, so it fits in with our beliefs.

[lilmama2dsndd]

I used to spank DS and I have MAJOR guilt issues because of it :cry: . I stopped when his DCP told me that he had gotten mad at another child for taking his toy and DS "spanked" him. Of course I knew that he learned it from me :dontlikeit: and seeing how I don't want him to hit others, I don't hit him. I grew up with spankings and always reasoned that if it never hurt me... well it does hurt me, I remember how terrible I would feel after popping DS on the bottom or his hand or whatever and he started freaking out and crying. :banghead: I feel like i was such a bad mama for doing that to him! We are now using gentle discipline. If he does something he isn't supposed to, and doesn't stop after I ask, I get down on his level, hold his hands and tell him why it was wrong :nono: . They I have him repeat "no ______" three times. We hug, I have him hug & apologize to whatever, whoever he hurt and move to the next activity. It has not been the easiest transition but I am very proud of myself for stopping this chain of bad parenting.

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

:hugs: I used to spank DS and I have MAJOR guilt issues because of it :cry: . I stopped when his DCP told me that he had gotten mad at another child for taking his toy and DS "spanked" him. Of course I knew that he learned it from me :dontlikeit: and seeing how I don't want him to hit others, I don't hit him. I grew up with spankings and always reasoned that if it never hurt me... well it does hurt me, I remember how terrible I would feel after popping DS on the bottom or his hand or whatever and he started freaking out and crying. :banghead: I feel like i was such a bad mama for doing that to him! We are now using gentle discipline. If he does something he isn't supposed to, and doesn't stop after I ask, I get down on his level, hold his hands and tell him why it was wrong :nono: . They I have him repeat "no ______" three times. We hug, I have him hug & apologize to whatever, whoever he hurt and move to the next activity. It has not been the easiest transition but I am very proud of myself for stopping this chain of bad parenting.

[MamaMel]

I don't spank my DS I redirect him to something else. If he's really acting out or "throwing a fit" I give him a hug. I don't do time outs either I just remove him from the situation. Right now though, we are dealing with him hitting and trying to find the appropriate way to discipline that. Got some good advice from mamas on here. But he is finally learning that things hurt (from him getting "boo boos) so when I tell him that it hurts he kind of gets it.

[mother4JC]

We don't spank regularly, or for minor offenses. But we do believe it is an appropriate method of discipline sometimes. We also don't think it is inherently wrong because the Bible advocates spanking, so it fits in with our beliefs.
:yeahthat:

[Shannon]

We use spanking in our house...along with other forms of disipline and positive reinforcement. I know I'm in a minority here but the term "gentle parenting/disapline" really bothers me(offends) because the opposite of gentle is rough and I don't like that if you aren't labeled "gentle" you automatically fall into the "disrespectful..mean" lable. I find it highly unfair to assume that because we choose to spank as one form of disipline.

JMO.

[ChurchPunkMom]

No spanking here!:mrgreen:
I am kind of curious as to why you say the Bible advocates spanking..:headscratch:

[Shannon]

No spanking here!:mrgreen:
I am kind of curious as to why you say the Bible advocates spanking..:headscratch:


"Spare the rod, spoil the child"

amongst others:)

[ChurchPunkMom]

The rod (or shebet) was used to gently guide the sheep - not for beating them into submission. ;)
http://gentlechristianmothers.com/articles/rodstudy.php

[Carrie]

I don't really consider myself an AP mama. We encouraged weaning (after 1 year), encouraged independent sleeping at 6 months, didn't babywear much until recently, etc. I'm very attached to my children, I just don't practice "attachment parenting" as I usually see it defined. We don't spank. Dh was spanked by a stepfather (fortunately a very short term one) and he doesn't believe in spanking. I don't want to be the meanie parent who spanks, and I wouldn't feel comfortable spanking in front of Dh, so I don't. I also feel like it could be a slippery slope for me and I might end up spanking more than appropriate, so I just don't go there.

[Lucky Child]

The rod (or shebet) was used to gently guide the sheep - not for beating them into submission. ;)

OK everyone, I'm going to put on my mod hat for a sec and give a friendly reminder before this gets out of hand...
Discipline discussions tend to get heated, which is fine, we are all adults, but just remember to choose your words wisely. This quote "beating them into submission" could be highly offensive in that is seems you may be implying that those who use "the rod" then "beat their kids into submission".
I do understand your point here, I just want to offer a word of caution to everyone to think before typing!:thumbsup:

[Shannon]

The rod (or shebet) was used to gently guide the sheep - not for beating them into submission. ;)
http://gentlechristianmothers.com/articles/rodstudy.php

Did I say beat into submission? I don't think anyone said that:headscratch: Also, look at the title of the link you are providing...GENTLE...hmmmBiased? Probebly. Put it doesn't matter anyway, you're not going to change my mind, I'm not going to change yours. Lets just remeber(everyone) that just because you don't agree with something doesn' make it wrong.

[lilmama2dsndd]

We use spanking in our house...along with other forms of disipline and positive reinforcement. I know I'm in a minority here but the term "gentle parenting/disapline" really bothers me(offends) because the opposite of gentle is rough and I don't like that if you aren't labeled "gentle" you automatically fall into the "disrespectful..mean" lable. I find it highly unfair to assume that because we choose to spank as one form of disipline.

JMO.

JMO but what would think of someone who hit you? That they were mean right? And that it was disrespectful? I know that if I started a new job that I didn't know anything about I would want someone to show me the correct way to do it instead of hitting me when I did it wrong. After all, our children learning to live life is like us starting a new job, neither has any clue as to what is what until we are shown.

[Shannon]

JMO but what would think of someone who hit you? That they were mean right? And that it was disrespectful? I know that if I started a new job that I didn't know anything about I would want someone to show me the correct way to do it instead of hitting me when I did it wrong. After all, our children learning to live life is like us starting a new job, neither has any clue as to what is what until we are shown.

Excuse me...but what right do YOU have to question MY parenting? FWIW, I was spanked as a child. Dh was too. We are both fully functioning adults. I am NOT saying what I THINK of nonspanking parents...so have a LITTLE respect and don't judge me. However, having a new job and being hit for messing up doesn't even apply to the situation. NO, I don't consider my parents or my inlaws "mean". They were PARENTING...regardless of what method a person uses, thats what we're all doing...PARENTING. My child will think I'm "mean" if I ground them from going to the prom, or take away a driving privilage, or put their nose in a corner, or miss their favorite tv show. I'm not too concerned about thinking I'm "mean". I disipline...they won't like it, no matter what I do. Disipline isn't "fun"

And please don't imply that my children are spanked for "not knowing what to do"...I don't spank in anger or for first time offenses...they are spanked when they KNOW what they are doing.

[ChurchPunkMom]

I apologize for my wording - I could have said that better.:blush:

[keegans_mommy]

I had also grown up on the "rod" in the Bible but now understand it was to guide the sheep and not a literal "spank" with the rod, KWIM? (chosing words carefuly and we NEED a smilie who is stepping on egg shells!) I am VERY Christian but on the other side of the belief of what discipline is and have changed fairly recently (within the past 2 years) as it didn't help OUR own personal family. Especially children with attention problems: you spank, they forget immediately! :giggle:

But I haven't forgotten WHY I would spank in those years past so I don't judge those who chose this form of punishment. Perhaps it just works for their family! It doesn't for ours so we have to use other forms of discipline and it just happens to not have any physical form of guiding involved in it.

:hugs: to all!

[Shannon]

I'm not trying to convince someone to spank if they don't want to...so ladies...PLEASE, before you even type it...have the same respect for those of us that do choose to spank. You're *way* is not *the way* And it is completly disrepectful for you to try and make us feel inferior. I'm not pulling up links to advocate spanking...I'm sure all us "meanies" will appreciate the same from you.

[Lucky Child]

JMO but what would think of someone who hit you? That they were mean right? And that it was disrespectful? I know that if I started a new job that I didn't know anything about I would want someone to show me the correct way to do it instead of hitting me when I did it wrong. After all, our children learning to live life is like us starting a new job, neither has any clue as to what is what until we are shown.

OK. I don't spank my kids and don't plan on it. HOwever I'm a firm believer in "do what works for you" and would never subscribe to some blanket method of parenting myself, (ie: AP, gente discipline, Babywise, etc.)...I do what works for me and say foo foo to the books and methodologies...seems impossible to me that one thing would work for all kids...I figure out what works for MY kids on my own.
That being said...I don't understand the bashing of people for spanking? I mean there is a difference in spanking and beating. Also keep in mind a child is a lot different than an adult. You can tell an adult the correct way to do something once and then they will do it...also an adult typically doesn't engage in behavior that is blatantly dangerous. Children on the other hand will keep doing the same things over and over... perhaps for some people a spank teaches their children faster? Also, kids do things (run in the street, hit their brothers with hard objects...mind did this one today) things that cause danger to themselves or others and perhaps a spank is a reminder not to do those things again... Just my :2cents: from someone who does not spank but still thinks it is a respectable way to discipline/parent if done correctly.

[Lucky Child]

I apologize for my wording - I could have said that better.:blush:
:hugs: I knew you didn't mean it the way it came out!:hugs:

[Shannon]

OK. I don't spank my kids and don't plan on it. HOwever I'm a firm believer in "do what works for you" and would never subscribe to some blanket method of parenting myself, (ie: AP, gente discipline, Babywise, etc.)...I do what works for me and say foo foo to the books and methodologies...seems impossible to me that one thing would work for all kids...I figure out what works for MY kids on my own.
That being said...I don't understand the bashing of people for spanking? I mean there is a difference in spanking and beating. Also keep in mind a child is a lot different than an adult. You can tell an adult the correct way to do something once and then they will do it...also an adult typically doesn't engage in behavior that is blatantly dangerous. Children on the other hand will keep doing the same things over and over... perhaps for some people a spank teaches their children faster? Also, kids do things (run in the street, hit their brothers with hard objects...mind did this one today) things that cause danger to themselves or others and perhaps a spank is a reminder not to do those things again... Just my :2cents: from someone who does not spank but still thinks it is a respectable way to discipline/parent if done correctly.


Thank you Rachel...You explained it very well and I appreciate your respect.

[ChurchPunkMom]

Good grief! I simply posted the link in case you were interested in seeing another point of view! I have read articles and such on both sides and did so before making my informed decision. I meant NO disrespect and am not saying you're a bad mom for spanking. My husband and I were both raised in spanking households and turned out "just fine", that doesn't mean that that's what I want for my kids. I'm not trying to change your mind or make you feel bad - only offering an explanation of why I feel the way I do. We even spanked our first child, it did NOT work for us! It only created more behavior problems, which sent me looking for another way. I found one, it works, I'm happy. :)

My belief (not one that I'm trying to impose on you, just one that I'm sharing. don't want to know? stop reading..) is that I need to do my best to be a Godly parent - just as I do my best to be a Godly woman and a Godly wife. How do I make my discipline decisions? What would Jesus do? Yes, it's cliche.. perhaps even silly. But it's true. God is my heavenly father - my ultimate example for parenting. Does God punish me when I mess up? even when I know that what I am doing is wrong? No. He points me back in the right direction through prayer and through His word. He forgives me and lets it go, leaves it behind. I simply do the same for my children. Offering them the same grace that God bestows to me. Children do require disciplining and training, but I don't believe that they require spanking or punishing.

[MamaMel]

I agree with rrandle! We all do what is right for our children. I also agree that it shouldn't be labled. I don't spank my DS because I found something else that works for us. Just because I don't do it doesn't mean I think its wrong for another mama to do it. Each mama does there old thing. I also see where a PP was coming from as far as calling it gentle discipline. I don't consider people who spank their children to practice rough discipline. It's just different kinds of parenting. Also each child is different. The way I go about disciplining my DS may be totaly different then the way I discipline my DD. I have to do whats right for my child and other mama's have to do what is right for their children.


Just to add I didn't know anything about "gentle discipline" before I had DD and became a part of another board. I just did what I felt was right for DS and his needs never read a book about it or anything.

[keegans_mommy]

Megan-I see what you are saying, been there and done that too but not everybody reads the Bible the same, heck! Some here don't believe a word in the Bible and are NOT Christian so that wouldn't apply to them. :)

It's a "do what works for your own personal family" situation. Like I had said before, we did for several years, found it wasn't working for us, quit and did something different and it IS working for us.

Although, you don't have to spank to "hurt" your children. What if you are a yeller? That is mentally hurting so we can say that just because you (in general) don't spank doesn't mean that you (general again) aren't hurting your child. KWIM?

There are so many ways to hurt your children that we can really pick a parent apart. Spanking is just one way to hurt your child and it isn't always a negative, in fact in can be quite the opposite but just not for us.

[Lucky Child]

My belief (not one that I'm trying to impose on you, just one that I'm sharing. don't want to know? stop reading..) is that I need to do my best to be a Godly parent - just as I do my best to be a Godly woman and a Godly wife. How do I make my discipline decisions? What would Jesus do? Yes, it's cliche.. perhaps even silly. But it's true. God is my heavenly father - my ultimate example for parenting. Does God punish me when I mess up? even when I know that what I am doing is wrong? No. He points me back in the right direction through prayer and through His word. He forgives me and lets it go, leaves it behind. I simply do the same for my children. Offering them the same grace that God bestows to me. Children do require disciplining and training, but I don't believe that they require spanking or punishing.

This is an interesting paragraph for me to read. It only goes to show that we all interpret things one way or another regarding the Bible and Christianity, which is not a big issue as long as we believe in the basic fundamental truths of it, kwim? Anyway, God does not punish us per se when we mess up, but we must endure the consequences. With our children, discipline teaches them that there are conswquences for bad choices, mistakes. God does gently point us in the right direction, but we still ahve painful consequences for sin. Spanking or implementing other consequences does not imply lack of grace at all... Grace is God's love for us even though we do not deserve it. We still unconditionally love our children in spite of their sin, that is grace.

I would like to add that God does punish. He punished with the flood, he punished with sodom and gamorah (spelling)... and he is an unchanging God with wrath, kwim?

[SheilaJoy]

I haven't read all the responses, although I did fully expect that plenty of the moms on here would insinuate that those of us who spank are bad parents. So be it.
But the Bible does use many references to spanking. One verse actually says, "They will not die if you spank them." So the rod being referenced to as a gentle staff to guide contradicts other verses. That being said, I think Christians should be free to not spank if they don't wish to.

[Shannon]

Gosh Rachel....saved me a bunch of typing:)

And that said, I respect that not spanking makes you feel what you are doing is right (megan) and while I don't think that spanking would make you any less of a Godly mother/wife, I understand trying to do what you think is the best for your child. Which is what all of us do.

[keegans_mommy]

I tell ya, that Bible has alot of contradiction to it :giggle: It can say one thing and 400 years later changes :D

[ChurchPunkMom]

Megan-I see what you are saying, been there and done that too but not everybody reads the Bible the same, heck! Some here don't believe a word in the Bible and are NOT Christian so that wouldn't apply to them. :)
Exactly.. and that's why I don't expect people to agree with me or join me, just because I said so. Simply my personal belief. :)

It's a "do what works for your own personal family" situation. Like I had said before, we did for several years, found it wasn't working for us, quit and did something different and it IS working for us.

Although, you don't have to spank to "hurt" your children. What if you are a yeller? That is mentally hurting so we can say that just because you (in general) don't spank doesn't mean that you (general again) aren't hurting your child. KWIM?

There are so many ways to hurt your children that we can really pick a parent apart. Spanking is just one way to hurt your child and it isn't always a negative, in fact in can be quite the opposite but just not for us.

I agree. Please don't think I'm some snobby "I'm a perfect mommy" parent. Just cause I do my best to use gentle or grace based discipline does not mean that I don't lose it now and then. I still yell a lot and I've also been known to call names (which can often be more hurtful than a swat on the rump!). To me, what's most important is to set the best example I can for my kids. When I mess up, I tell them "I messed up. I'm sorry. I'll try harder next time." I don't allow my kids to hit each other or me or their dad. I don't believe that I'm higher than they are or whatever and feel that I have a right to hit them. The other night KJ was driving me nuts and I said "KJ, shut up." He shot right back with "Shut up yourself!" (He's a pretty snarky kid anyway.) My hubby hates when they are disrespectful and was about to yell at him for it. But I said "Don't bother, I deserved it." How can I expect them to show me respect if I don't show it to them first??

[lilmama2dsndd]

All I know is that I quit spanking once I realized how it was affecting DS. He was learning that when someone does something he doesn't like, spank them, and I was the one teaching it to him. Even though I only popped his bottom or hand when it was a severe case, he didn't/doesn't understand the difference between servere & non-severe. I posted the bad mama comment about how I felt about myself for ME spanking MY SON, not about anyone else.

[SheilaJoy]

Proverbs 23:13: Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

While researching that verse, I have found that most scholars believe that "beat" in verses such as these is not the same as we would picture "beat", but follow the lines of "spanking."

Hebrews 12:11Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Once again, discipline is not just "redirection" but is painful and its purpose is to train.

[ChurchPunkMom]

This is an interesting paragraph for me to read. It only goes to show that we all interpret things one way or another regarding the Bible and Christianity, which is not a big issue as long as we believe in the basic fundamental truths of it, kwim? Anyway, God does not punish us per se when we mess up, but we must endure the consequences. With our children, discipline teaches them that there are conswquences for bad choices, mistakes. God does gently point us in the right direction, but we still ahve painful consequences for sin. Spanking or implementing other consequences does not imply lack of grace at all... Grace is God's love for us even though we do not deserve it. We still unconditionally love our children in spite of their sin, that is grace.

I would like to add that God does punish. He punished with the flood, he punished with sodom and gamorah (spelling)... and he is an unchanging God with wrath, kwim?

I prefer to let my children enjoy the natural consequences of their actions. Thus far (mine are still young ;)), those have been enough.. and I can always remind them of those natural consequences.

[SheilaJoy]

I tell ya, that Bible has alot of contradiction to it :giggle: It can say one thing and 400 years later changes :D

That is very offensive to Christians to say that. It has zero contradictions.

[SandyG]

i think shannon we have lots in common
i started spank david (READ SPANK NOT BEAT INTO SUBMISSION). a swat in the tush is what i use. and it doestnt happen every day all the time fyi
i grew up with the belt!! my dad use to beat me with a belt when ididnt eat my food. iwould never do that to david (might be why he eats only nacho supreme taco bell, pasta and hotdogs all the time LOL). but i would never do how i brought up. i dont resent my dad though (ANYMORE< IDID LOONG TIME AGO, its how he was brought up). i was sooo scared of him .
dh is the ap dad when it comes to that--he wont spank at all .

[ChurchPunkMom]

All I know is that I quit spanking once I realized how it was affecting DS. He was learning that when someone does something he doesn't like, spank them, and I was the one teaching it to him. Even though I only popped his bottom or hand when it was a severe case, he didn't/doesn't understand the difference between servere & non-severe. I posted the bad mama comment about how I felt about myself for ME spanking MY SON, not about anyone else.

That was my experience as well.

[Lucky Child]

I prefer to let my children enjoy the natural consequences of their actions. Thus far (mine are still young ;)), those have been enough.. and I can always remind them of those natural consequences.

Interesting, just so you know I'm not picking on you at all :giggle: I did click your link and have been reading through it as a means to educate myself.
My question is... what are the natural consequences? I mean at such a young age (mine are young) how do they connect them? I know my dd is constantly hitting her little bro with objects not to be mean but because she thinks it's a game... what would the natural consequence here be for instance? Or if they get into something they KNOW they shouldn't...what are the natural consequences here? I'm really wanting to understand.

[SandyG]

I prefer to let my children enjoy the natural consequences of their actions. Thus far (mine are still young ;)), those have been enough.. and I can always remind them of those natural consequences.

megan may i ask what are those natural consequences?? what do you mean about that ?
im just curious. thanks

[stephdpn]

I am with Shannon - we do spank sometimes, for major things - like running in the street or running off in a store. We also spank for blatant lying - my DD is horrible about lying, and she DOES know that what she is doing is wrong. We also use other forms of discipline, much more than we spank. Spanking is a last resort for us...we DON'T spank out of anger and we don't spank all the time.

I also agree with Rachel - God does punish wrong - he is a just God, the ultimate Judge. We also have to live with the consequences of our sin and bad decisions...just like my kids have to learn that there are consequences to bad behavior and disobedience. We have major issues with disobedience right now...my DD refuses to obey me during the day, so there are consequences and punishments for her disobedience. For example, the other day she left her markers out all over the table and floor 3 times in a row - each time I asked her to pick them up so her brother wouldn't pick them up and simply because she was making a mess and not cleaning up after herself. Therefore, after the third time, I put all her art supplies on top of the entertainment center until the end of the week...

I know some people don't discipline or punish at all as parents and it just makes me wonder how they stay sane...I couldn't do it!

[Lucky Child]

Steph it seems like we are always on the same page:hugs:

[SheilaJoy]

I also don't understand natural consequences. What if your child repeatedly runs in the street? Are the natural consequences that he gets hit by a car?

Or what if it's for lying? Cheating? Stealing? There are very few natural consequences in the world, which is why we are given the responsibility to train and teach our children right from wrong.

[stephdpn]

:goodvibes: Rach! We do agree a lot, don't we?? :mrgreen:

I also wanted to say that I grew up with spankings for serious offenses, but my mom's yelling was much more harmful to me (and the worst trait I "learned" from her!).

DH grew up with severe spanking for all sorts of stuff...(I've told this before I know)...the last time he was "spanked" was with a yard rake for something he said to his dad when he was 16...he still remembers it and knows we have to find a balance in our parenting...everyone has to find that place for their family!:hugs:

[bamamom]

Well, since this isnt MDC, I can say this....

I was raised in a spanking home. the church we went to almost acted like beating little kids was a sport. It was all we knew. My parents made some grievous mistakes with me when i was still living at home. Things that still bother me to this day.

Fast forward to the last 3 yrs...I now have kids of my own., I have had to find Christianity for myself...find my own personal relationship with God. Not the screwed in the head stuff i grew up around. It was pretty much wrong.

I have a very rambunctious almost 3 yr old....and I make a SERIOUS attempt to not lash out verbally or physically over things. Yes , we do spank occasionally. By spank, I mean one or two swats with a serious "No ma'am, I told you not to do that...that could hurt you. Dont do it again." Then it's over. She is wild and funny sometimes, but i am trying to do something unprecedented ...for my family. I am trying to talk to her, and help her see things and understand things, instead of just "beating" her all the time, which is what it was called when i was growing up.

I think baby training is revolting, there is so much time for that stuff when they're able to talk and listen.

I try to find other ways to do it, but sometimes I find myself at the point where spanking is the only way to enforce what I said. I struggle with it. i have the GD'ers making me feel guilty on one side, and the child trainers on the other, who would say she is a brat.

I think she's a fairly normal 2.5 yr old..in need of guidance.

Just my :2cents:

[MamaMel]

Here is an example of how I discipline w/out spanking. I am not saying it's right or wrong I am just saying it works for my DS. He just went outside (don't worry we have a fenced in back yard) and I went out brought him back in and got down on his level looked at him in the eyes and said "Lukas you do not go outside w/out mommy you could get hurt" he got the idea because he walked away and just kind of stood in the corner for a second. Then a few minutes later he tried to sit on his sister. So every time he did I told him no you are going to hurt Lily and then he did something nice to her and I praised him and he stopped sitting on her. This is just the system that works for my DS and I

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

We use spanking in our house...along with other forms of disipline and positive reinforcement. I know I'm in a minority here but the term "gentle parenting/disapline" really bothers me(offends) because the opposite of gentle is rough and I don't like that if you aren't labeled "gentle" you automatically fall into the "disrespectful..mean" lable. I find it highly unfair to assume that because we choose to spank as one form of disipline.

JMO.

I didn't mean it that way, it's just the term I hear a lot lately kwim? :hugs:

[Lucky Child]

Here is an example of how I discipline w/out spanking. I am not saying it's right or wrong I am just saying it works for my DS. He just went outside (don't worry we have a fenced in back yard) and I went out brought him back in and got down on his level looked at him in the eyes and said "Lukas you do not go outside w/out mommy you could get hurt" he got the idea because he walked away and just kind of stood in the corner for a second. Then a few minutes later he tried to sit on his sister. So every time he did I told him no you are going to hurt Lily and then he did something nice to her and I praised him and he stopped sitting on her. This is just the system that works for my DS and I
I wonder if we might be going through some of the same issues with the newborns in the house... Bailey is always doing stuff like that I am do believe in the eye level, lowering the voice (as in making it deeper and firmer) but it doesn't work for her yet (19 months) for a lot of things... Hope it does b/c it's something I'd like to employ but you never know I guess...and who knows maybe at some point a swat/spank will be necessary?

[SheilaJoy]

nak
Kids are so different. My two oldest would behave with a stern look. Gabriel and Isaiah are a different story altogether!

[ChurchPunkMom]

I did not say that every offense has a natural consequence, nor did I say that my kids are able to draw the connection on their own. That's where I come in. If Aidan hits his brother, his brother will hit back. If Kieran steals a toy from his brother, his brother will proably cry and maybe hit him. If Torrin colors on the wall, Torrin gets his marker taken away and he helps clean the wall - taking responsibility for his action.

I've never had the problem of kids running in the street, so I don't know for sure how I would handle it.. They know they are required to hold the hand of an adult when going in the street and have always done so. If they wander from the car in the parking lot while waiting for everyone to unload, they get called back.. "KJ what are you doing?" "I was walking away." "Are you supposed to do that?" "No." "Why?" "I could get smooshed by a car." "Are you going to do it again?" "No." Then they are taken by the hand or instructed to hold onto something to keep them close. Lying, cheating and stealing are things that we have talked about (albeit on a small scale) and have made clear that they are wrong and undesirable actions - that there are better ways of getting what we want. Thus far, we have not had much problem with any. KJ is prone to lying to keep himself out of trouble, but it doesn't take long to get him to fess up. I once sat on the floor in the hallway with KJ for a while waiting patiently for him to tell me what was on his face (I knew it was chocolate syrup) and how it got there. I sat there and held his arm and told him he could get up after he told me. It took him a little while, but he eventually told me and then we went downstairs and cleaned up the mess together. And, no, it was not something fun for him.

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

wow I didn't realize this would become such a heated topic, I mostly wanted advice on approaching the subject with hubby

see we spanked DSS, once he was old enough (I cannot comprehend ppl who spank a baby) anyhow, not so much anymore, cause I hate it, thing is, once Gavin is old enough, I don't want to either, but I'm afraid hubby will say he's getting different treatment cause he's my own, (since Cody used to get spanked) I dunno how to approach it with him, course it won't be a concern for a few years but I was thinking about it lately

I'm sorry y'all :hugs:

[SheilaJoy]

I very specifically said that I respect people who don't discipline like me, so the last comment was unnecessary. I just asked what are some natural consequences that you speak of, you didn't give any examples

[lilmama2dsndd]

Gavinsmommy-

I hope that you are able to find the advice you are looking for despite all this :argue:

:bighug:

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

I just feel bad now:blush:

[Lucky Child]

I just feel bad now:blush:
Don't feel bad! It's good to give our brains excercise through these kind of discussions! I don't think anyone here is mad, I'm sure not!

[bamamom]

I think as parents we are responsible for providing those consequences. Sometimes I see that a consequence(natural one) is about to come about, and I stand by and let it happen, just supervising to make sure it is safe.

For instance...my one year old....he climbs the stairs like crazy.. At first we took him off the stairs and redirected....then eventually he got big enough. So , I let him learn to crawl up the stairs...all the while telling him to be careful. i always sat one or two steps below him, and a few times he was learning, and tried to turn around and of course, he fell. I kept my arms out, and he never hit the steps or anything, but I let him feel that scary falling feeling, and in a super calm voice, i said "See? That's why momma says Be Careful." And then put him back on the stairs to go again. It only took a few times, and he learned not to try anything fancy.

[Lucky Child]

Just because it's not the way you do things, doesn't mean it doesn't work or can't work.
ITA with this statement, regarding both sides of the debate, spanking or not! Very good point!

[ChurchPunkMom]

I very specifically said that I respect people who don't discipline like me, so the last comment was unnecessary. I just asked what are some natural consequences that you speak of, you didn't give any examples

Fixed. I respect people who don't discipline the way I do as well. Remember, me expressing my opinion is not my way of looking down on yours. :)

Anyway, I should have known better than to jump in this discussion. I suppose I should leave it lest I offend anyone else or hurt any feelings.

No hard feelings here.:bighug:

[ChurchPunkMom]

ITA with this statement, regarding both sides of the debate, spanking or not! Very good point!

I thought so too, but I guess it was offensive.:dunno:

[lilmama2dsndd]

Remember, me expressing my opinion is not my way of looking down on yours. :)

I think that is the biggest problem, people see someone who think something different from them and assume they are saying they are wrong. I think this is how the whole debate got started here.

[SheilaJoy]

Fixed. I respect people who don't discipline the way I do as well. Remember, me expressing my opinion is not my way of looking down on yours. :)

Anyway, I should have known better than to jump in this discussion. I suppose I should leave it lest I offend anyone else or hurt any feelings.

No hard feelings here.:bighug:

Oh, I thought you were specifically addressing me when you said it. hehe I better jump out of the conversation as well. :hugs:

Bamamom, that's a good example of natural consequences. My kids learn those all the time! :giggle:

[MamaMel]

rrandle

Lukas - is 26 months old. It doesn't always work with him (right now we are going through a hitting phase). It just takes time. Your DD is 19 months? She's a little younger so it might take a while for her to understand that mommy means bussiness. But since he is a little older it works pretty well most of the time. If this is the method you choose to use I say keep being consistint because that is the key w/ any form of discipline. And :hugs: I know it's hard with a young one and newborn. It took Lukas a while to adjust and he still is!!

[Shannon]

I think that is the biggest problem, people see someone who think something different from them and assume they are saying they are wrong. I think this is how the whole debate got started here.

I have to disagree. People were disagreeing...it wasn't until finger started pointing that it got out of hand(IE: "How would you feel if you got hit")...amongst other things:)

Gavinsmommy~ DOn't feel bad...even though this is one of the few discussions that is bound to get a bit heated(even luke warm) I do enjoy hearing ideas of other ways to get your point across to a child. Who isn't for creative disalpline? I love heraing and trying new things...if it works better for me then HALLELUIAH! You know:)

The thing about natural consequences that scares me is that usually at this age(young age) natural consequences are physically harmful to a child. "Natural consequences" in itself is NOT time out, losing privaliges, spanking...or anything like that. Every single one of those is a parent induced consequence. Cleaning up after a mess isn't a natural consequence, it's one that a parent says "you're a gonna do!" you know. So no matter what you choose to do, you are the one invoking the consequence. I would so much rather smack my childs hand when they reach for a hot stove instead of letting them get their hand burned to learn it's hot(not that ANYONE would just let their child touch a stove...just an example:) )

[Shannon]

ITA with this statement, regarding both sides of the debate, spanking or not! Very good point!


I dont' see where this statement was made to begin with:headscratch: But I agree so much with it too! It's a perfect way to sum it all up!:thumbsup:

[Lucky Child]

Shannon...she edited her post b/c someone else took offense to it I think? I can't exactly remember but it was ChurckPunkMom that said it!:thumbsup:

[Shannon]

Shannon...she edited her post b/c someone else took offense to it I think? I can't exactly remember but it was ChurckPunkMom that said it!:thumbsup:

Ahhhh:hugegrin:

[dirtdartwife]

Proverbs 23:13: Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

While researching that verse, I have found that most scholars believe that "beat" in verses such as these is not the same as we would picture "beat", but follow the lines of "spanking."

Hebrews 12:11Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Once again, discipline is not just "redirection" but is painful and its purpose is to train.
You amaze me! :)

I haven't read any further posts but I wanted to post this article link... http://www.drray.com/parentingtips/tips/spanking.htm It's pretty interesting and very logical.

[EmnJJsMom]

I never really spanked, slapped her hand once or twice because she was doing something dangerous. Yelling was my downfall for a while. When I was pregnant, working, and very tired, I would get frustrated w/my dd and yell at her instead of get up and redirect her. Then, after I had dd #2, everytime I nursed dd #1 would purposely get into stuff because she knew I was tied down. So I'd yell at her because dd #2 had a hard time latching and getting up would break the latch and we'd have to start that all over again. ANYWAYS there is a point to this lol. When I started working at the childcare center I saw how much my dd was yelling at the other kids...then I realized she learned it from me. It was a big wake up call and I've learned to control that a lot. My aunt and uncle don't discipline at all and their children are mean and run rampid through the house, I don't agree with that. I do timeouts and make her look at me while I talk to her. She is still a 2 year old, still has tantrums and throws fits, but at least she's somewhat under control :laugh:

[stephdpn]

Just had to come on here and repost for ya'll - know how I said in my earlier post about taking DD's art supplies away?? Well tonight at church they were talking about how learning to obey is good and makes you happy...so they went around the circle and asked everyone what makes them happy, and DD says "Crafts makes me happy, but I disobeyed my mom and she took away my craft stuff." (her teacher is my friend and told me this) - guess I finally found her "currency", huh?? :goodvibes:

[Shannon]

Just had to come on here and repost for ya'll - know how I said in my earlier post about taking DD's art supplies away?? Well tonight at church they were talking about how learning to obey is good and makes you happy...so they went around the circle and asked everyone what makes them happy, and DD says "Crafts makes me happy, but I disobeyed my mom and she took away my craft stuff." (her teacher is my friend and told me this) - guess I finally found her "currency", huh?? :goodvibes:

Yeah!:happyclap: Leason learned!

[SheilaJoy]

You amaze me! :)

I haven't read any further posts but I wanted to post this article link... http://www.drray.com/parentingtips/tips/spanking.htm It's pretty interesting and very logical.

:goodvibes: You're sweet! :hugs: That's a good article, I bookmarked it for future reference! :thumbsup:

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

I'm just used to sites where if there is any kind of "debate" then it turns into major drama lol I am glad to see it's not like that here :D

so does anyone have any advice on what I posted? :giggle:

[sesa70]

I also feel like it could be a slippery slope for me and I might end up spanking more than appropriate, so I just don't go there.
:yeahthat:

I feel like hitting, even occasionally, will open a door I dont want to open. I dont what to get out of control so I dont put myself in the situation. Its not so much about the kids as it is about myself....

[mommypooh]

for us it starts with a warning and a suggestion to go do something else, if they don't respond they are told 1 2 3 Timeout. 1 min for each year of age we talk about it after and hug. If it continues it will be a spanking. They are given one warning after time out before the spanking. Now in some situations when it is imperative they know what they are doing is wrong like running out in the street, I will spank immedialy to get the point that is not going to happen. i don't play with safty.

[bamamom]

for us it starts with a warning and a suggestion to go do something else, if they don't respond they are told 1 2 3 Timeout. 1 min for each year of age we talk about it after and hug. If it continues it will be a spanking. They are given one warning after time out before the spanking. Now in some situations when it is imperative they know what they are doing is wrong like running out in the street, I will spank immedialy to get the point that is not going to happen. i don't play with safty.


this sounds nice and easy to follow...how old were they when you instituted this??

[Shannon]

I'm just used to sites where if there is any kind of "debate" then it turns into major drama lol I am glad to see it's not like that here :D

so does anyone have any advice on what I posted? :giggle:

Ah, we argue and then move on:mrgreen:

So what was the question we are suppossed to be answering now:laugh:

[lilmama2dsndd]

I have to disagree. People were disagreeing...it wasn't until finger started pointing that it got out of hand(IE: "How would you feel if you got hit")...amongst other things:)

I never pointed a finger, I only asked the same thing I ask my son after he hits someone. Of course he always answers he wouldn't like it. And if asked why he answers because its not nice and it hurts. I use this approach because to me, it is easier to understand something from the "how would I feel if it were me" point of view. I don't think anybody enjoys being hit, so to me, if you don't want someone to do it to you, don't do it to them. I couldn't possibly tell my son not to hit someone if I myself hit him. It was that behavior that lead me away from spanking (I used to spank) in the first place. Another rule I try to live by is I try not to do anything that I wouldn't want my children to do too. I grew up in a "Do as I say, not as I do" household and never thought there was anything wrong with some of the practices of my parents. Then when I followed some of the practices of my parents (stuff they told me not to do but did themselves) I got into serious trouble and resented my parents for having given me the predisposition towards those practices. I don't blame my parents for my actions, but I have decided that it would be much easier for me to direct my children with my actions rather than punishing them for following them. Does this make sense? If someone was to ask my son why you don't do something (IE hit someone) he would tell you because its not nice, I grew up thinking you don't do something because of the punishment. To me, I would rather him chose his actions based on consideration for others and himself than for fear of the punishment because there won't always be someone around to hand out a punishment and I don't want him to think that if no one finds out, then its ok (that was the impression I was left with from my parent's methods). Of course if he is doing something dangerous, I immediately pull him out of the situation, but I tell him why he shouldn't be doing that and that he could get hurt if he continued. When I used to spank him he was always too upset over the swat on the butt/hand to even listen to what I was telling him, so when I would try to explain why he shouldn't do something it never registered, he only knew that when he did something mommy didn't like he got hit, thus when others did something he didn't like, he hit them. Once (shortly after I stopped spanking) I saw my son spank his baby doll, I asked him why and he just looked at me like he was confused. I started to cry because I realized he was spanking his babies because he though that was what he was supposed to do, which made me realize that all those times I had spanked him hadn't taught him not to do something, it had taught him thats just what parents do. I knew his dolly couldn't possibly have done anything wrong, but he spanked her anyways. Now I lite up with joy when his sister takes something of his and instead of him hitting her, he tells her "no Alice, thats not nice" and replaces the taken toy with something different for her to play with because he understands it isn't nice to take something away from someone even if they took it for you (the whole 2 wrongs don't make a right theory). And he is only 27 months old. And as far as the term "Gentle Discipline", it is called that because it involves using methods other than physical punishment, it doesn't have a set of strict rules and everyone has their own degrees of practice and it doesn't say other methods are wrong, it simply gives a general description of that type of discipline. I hope this clears up what I was saying.

[mommypooh]

this sounds nice and easy to follow...how old were they when you instituted this??

I use this from pretty much around a year old and on. I have a 16 month old that knows how to sit in timeout, I tend to lax on the spanking until closer to 2 years old, except agin on the major things like the street.

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

see we spanked DSS, once he was old enough (I cannot comprehend ppl who spank a baby) anyhow, not so much anymore, cause I hate it, thing is, once Gavin is old enough, I don't want to either, but I'm afraid hubby will say he's getting different treatment cause he's my own, (since Cody used to get spanked) I dunno how to approach it with him, course it won't be a concern for a few years but I was thinking about it lately
I was wanting advice on this :giggle:

[stephdpn]

I would say just talk to him about it, tell him your reasons, and ask his opinion, since he is also a responsible party in raising your son!! Communication is always key and you can't start too early!

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

that's the problem, he'll take it as me just treating him differently cause he's my own, but I don't even spank DSS anymore cause I HATE to, kwim? so it's not just DS, my hubby tends to always get on the defensive side about ANYTHING I approach him with :headscratch: :lostit: :banghead:

[SandyG]

david doesnt get time outs
how can i implement time outs and him sit still for 3 min??
any suggestions ???btw now i only have to warn him that he gets a taztaz (spnaky in his terms) and he stops it.

[keegans_mommy]

That is very offensive to Christians to say that. It has zero contradictions.


I am Christian :) I also take Jesus' as the best example in that He is gentle, I don't think he would spank, hit or the such. So we don't and we don't take everything in the Bible for literal. Some would be just plain silly to take literally.

[Shannon]

that's the problem, he'll take it as me just treating him differently cause he's my own, but I don't even spank DSS anymore cause I HATE to, kwim? so it's not just DS, my hubby tends to always get on the defensive side about ANYTHING I approach him with :headscratch: :lostit: :banghead:

I'd just sit down and talk to him FIRST about Cody...telling him you'd prefer that you guys not use spanking as a punishment...I mean Gavin is too young to spank anyway so if you make it a way of life now, involiving Cody, it will just always be that way with Gavin. Tell him all the reasons you are uncomfortable with about spanking AND have backup disapline examples. If he always spanks he may not have a clue as to other forms of disipline:)

[offlikeapromdress]

I didnt read anyone's responses. But with our 3 yr old we spanked with hands (never objects like my parents) and when she threatened to spank me one day we decided it was time to do something different. so Im usually the disciplinarian b/c I have the patience. But when she does something or doesnt listen we get on her level and speak firmly but softly that it was a bad choice or whatever she has done. Then if that doesnt work she does get timeouts. Now that we have Sophia we are doing the same thing though its harder with a 1 yr old. We noticed that hitting her or spanking her increased her hitting.

[KnottyLDSMama]

Can you think of any ways that he's changed his parenting? It might be good to say "remember when you used to [fill in the blank] and then changed your mind about it?" The point you want to get across is that you try things in parenting, and then if you realize that they don't work, or if you're not comfortable with them, you change what you're doing. Point out to him that it's not just something with the new baby, and ask him to recall the last time you've spanked DSS. I don't know too many people who started out caring for their first child one way and stuck with that all through all of their children. IME, you have theories before you have kids, then you have to test them, and most of the time, they have to be altered.

So it would be best if you could have an example of a way he's changed his parenting to reinforce this idea.

Hope I could be of some help!!

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

no he doesn't only spank, so that's not an issue, it's just his defensive side kwim? I'm trying to think of things he changed... good idea lol

[Lucky Child]

Well maybe address just DSS for now. Say you no longer want to spank him and you feel it's wrong. Then when the time comes for Gavin, it will be easy to say well now that we didn't spank Cody anymore, we surely won't spank gavin...

[Gavin&Brent'sMommy]

true, I'll probably just address it that way when the time comes LOL I hate how is like that, it can be ANYTHING, hell it sometimes isn't even a confrontation but he takes it that way kwim? goodness