Shots [Archive] - Cloth Diapers & Parenting Community

Drummer's Wife

05-01-2006, 02:05 PM

I realize you posted this yesterday but if I were you I would have cancelled the appointment until you have fully researched this issue... you can always decide to vaccinate later.

I can't help you with delayed schedules as after a yr of researching we decided not to vax at all.

As far as mumps... for one the 1st MMR dose is not given until 12-15 months so that will not be one for the 4 month visit.

Plus a huge amount of people who contracted mumps were vaccinated against it so that just proves that immunity is questionable as far as effectiveness and how long it lasts. The MMR vax is also one of the most dangerous ones, so read up on it before that 1 yr or 15 month old well baby visit.

There is a ton of info out there, I started by researching the facts about each vaccine and the diseases they are intended to prevent. Then I looked more into the vax controversy once I knew statistics. 2 sites that sealed the deal for me were the CDC (center for disease control) and VAERS (vaccine adverse event reporting system) both provided by our government BUT had I started there I would have probably came to a different conclusion as they of course promote fully vaccinating.

Good luck on this journey, no matter what you decide the most important thing is to be informed before you do anything!!!

lovemygirls

05-01-2006, 03:08 PM

My dd's appointment is NOT until later tonight so I do have time to make a decision and I have been trying to research all of this stuff for almost 2 weeks now. Thanks for all the imput I appreciate it greatly!

kezoo

05-01-2006, 03:29 PM

Ginger, we decided to NOT vax at all, after doing a ton of research. We basically decided that, in our opinion, the risk associated w/ catching any of the diseases was less than the risks associated w/ vaxing! Educate yourself on the actual seriousness of each disease (e.g. mumps is not that serious for girls, mildly worrying for boys) so you can understand the situation fully. I would explain to your ped your concerns about having multiple vaxes at once, and ask for them to be spaced out. Any caring ped should be able to rationally discuss that w/ you! Good luck!

SheilaJoy

05-01-2006, 07:17 PM

Oh I'm glad someone posted the delayed vax schedule. I was looking for one but couldn't find it! Let us know what you decided on!

MamaLove

05-01-2006, 07:48 PM

I recommend waiting until you feel confident in your research and decisions.
It is a very important, individual decision, so make sure you feel right about what you choose.

FYI You don't really need to worry about mumps for your dd. The only major risk of mumps is for boys, (who can very rarely cause a swollen testie to become sterile, which is why they started giving the shot even though it does not give lifelong immunity, and mumps is more likely to do harm in older boys). Mumps is like an ear infection with some swollen glands that lasts a few days, and having it DOES give lifelong immunity. It was once considered a normal childhood disease. Most of the recent cases of mumps were with children that HAD been given the shot, so it doesn't seem to be giving immunity at all, and may very well be the cause of the outbreaks to begin with. Most importantly, you don't want any shots with mercury, since the levels have been increased and are clearly causing autism in healthy children.
I am not vaxing after learning the risks involved, but I made that decision confidently after lots and lots of research. I use homeopathy as a safe alternative. HTH!

Good luck, mama!

lovemygirls

05-01-2006, 08:33 PM

thank you all for the comments and links to research this. We did go to the doctor tonight and I opted for NO vacs today, and the dr was willing to work with us on a delayed vax schedule!! :whoohoo: I feel much better about the decision that my dh and I made today.

sesa70

05-01-2006, 10:37 PM

SheilaJoy

05-02-2006, 12:00 AM

SheilaJoy

05-02-2006, 12:02 AM

I hope I am not hijacking your thread!

I have a question for those that choose not to vax... what do you do when your dc is in school? We had decided not to vax after dd had a bad reaction to the mmr shots. She had all the ones before those and the chicken pox one too. We have gotten SO MUCH crap from school I cannot even begin to tell you!

Unfortunatley, until our adoption is done with dd#2, the vax choice is not ours to make. By then she will have had so many already! :banghead:

We homeschool so it's not an issue for us, BUT there are exemptions in every state. You can either claim a philosophical, religious, or medical exemption. But not all states have all three, some states only have one or two options.

MamaLove

05-02-2006, 02:17 PM

There were two threads a few weeks ago with lots of wonderful info on state laws for non-vaxers in school, as well as more info and links for vax info. Here they are:
http://www.kikifoxito.com/ds/forum/index.php?topic=34158.msg277703#msg277703
http://www.kikifoxito.com/ds/forum/index.php?topic=34368.msg279531#msg279531

Here's one for the mamas of autistic children, too:
http://www.kikifoxito.com/ds/forum/index.php?topic=28895.msg280912#msg280912

camperjen

05-02-2006, 02:54 PM

Most importantly, you don't want any shots with mercury, since the levels have been increased and are clearly causing autism in healthy children.

Science REFUSES to acknowledge any connection, though there are Mamas all around the globe who have seen the effects in their young ones firsthand.

Secondly - nearly every single vaccine contains trace amounts of Thimerasol (a mercury derivative which many babies are unable to process in their bodies in any higher levels)... those that say they are "Thimerasol free" had the thimerasol "washed out" during manufacturing - but it still leaves trace amounts.

Vaccinations such as chicken pox and the flu still contain the full amounts of thimerasol.

Here is a link to a Q&A for Measles... http://www.vaccineinfo.com/measles/qandadis.asp
Actually contracting the measles gives a person life-long immunity (which is more than can be said for the vaccination). :headscratch:

Velvetpage

05-02-2006, 04:11 PM

I have to question some of your information here.

The MMR vaccine, and all vaccines with thimerasol, were taken out of the vac roster in Sweeden some years ago (1997, I think.) The rates of autism remained EXACTLY THE SAME as in every other developed nation, regardless of the use of this chemical in vaccinations in those other nations. In Britain, up to 50% of parents in some areas refused the MMR vaccine, and the rates of autism there have also not changed. Meanwhile, cases of preventable illnesses such as mumps rose significantly in areas where there was a scare about the MMR vaccine (a scare which was based on one small, unsubstantiated study, which has since been completely discredited.) This has caused damage mostly to people who were never vaccinated - those who were, pulled through with no complications.

The Mumps vaccine, and several others including the chicken pox vaccine, are not designed to give complete immunity; they're designed to boost immunity. A vaccinated child can still get sick, especially if that child was already fighting another illness such as a cold, but they will get less sick and will get better sooner. It's bad science to claim that getting the disease proves the vaccine didn't work. Also, for every vaccinated kid who does come down with it, there will be several more who won't, thereby protecting more of the population who were not vaccinated. I chose not to take the chance that my elderly relatives would catch something potentially life-threatening from my children, even though getting the illness would not be a big deal for my kids.

I am not convinced that thimersol is a good idea, but I'm absolutely convinced that the diseases being vaccinated against are more of a risk than the thimersol. The reason modern western nations have such an incredibly low infant and child mortality rate can be credited to the massive vaccination programs of the last fifty years. Your unvaccinated children are much, much less likely to come in contact with these diseases than they ever were before - because the rest of us are vaccinating our children. In other words, you're benefitting from our decision to vaccinate.

MamaLove

05-02-2006, 05:05 PM

Vaxing or not vaxing really comes down to doing what feels right to you, so we must all respect everyones individual decision.

The books I've read say that all of the diseases that shots are given for were close to extinct or on the wean (mostly because of improved sanitation) before the vaccine brought them back.

IMO, I don't trust statistics because they are easily manipulated, hidden, and changed, (just like all the hidden lawsuits by parents of autistic children). I do have enough friends with autistic children to believe how they had completely normal, healthy babies until they got shots that literally transformed them.

My baby got whooping cough at 6 months from a child who got it right after getting the vaccine. If she had not gotten it from the shot, my ds wouldn't have gotten it either. It was not beneficial for us at all...just 2 sick kids from a shot that would have otherwise been healthy.

I must add that ingredients in vaccines are scary...formeldahide (poison), aborted babies, and other weird animal products.

That's enough for me to know on the matter, but it's interesting to hear the other side!:thumbsup:

Velvetpage

05-02-2006, 07:51 PM

1) I can respect your right to make your own decision, while not respecting the decision itself. This is not meant to be a personal attack, and I apologize if it came across that way; however, I believe the opinion you've expressed to be based on faulty information and very, very bad science.

2) Some of the diseases were on the decline already, but most would come back very quickly if the majority of people stopped vaccinating for any reason. Outbreaks of mumps in places where parents have been refusing the MMR vaccine are a case in point. Mass vaccinations for smallpox have made that vaccination unnecessary - the disease has been eradicated. The drive to vaccinate the developing world against polio, to eradicate that, has been going for years but is still many years from completion. Diphtheria is spread through stagnant water, so it could pop up anywhere there are untended ponds and hot weather. I could go on, but the fact is, the reason the diseases are on the decline is that people vaccinate their kids, thereby reducing the number of potential carriers of the disease and reducing the likelihood of an outbreak turning into an epidemic.

3) I know a great deal about autism. I've taught kids with every level of autism, from barely-there to not yet potty trained or talking at age seven. I have a good friend who is a therapist in an intensive behaviour modification program, working with the most developmentally delayed kids you'll ever meet. Basically, there are two times when autism shows up. It is either visible almost from birth, or it appears in kids who were developing normally, sometime between eighteen months and three years. There is no rhyme or reason to who gets it, but unvaccinated kids are as likely to get it as vaccinated ones. It just happens to have its onset at about the same time that many children are getting their most intensive round of vaccinations (especially the MMR) so parents assume a causal relationship. Out of the twenty or so studies I've read on this subject (in peer-reviewed medical journals of the highest standing) only one, very small one showed any kind of causal relationship between vaccines and autism. The rest basically said the relationship doesn't exist - that is, the onset of the disease and the timing of the vaccine are completely coincidental - neither one has any effect on the other. My friend, who has every possible reason for being terrified of autism after four years with these kids, has every intention of vaccinating her children. Part of her degree was in microbiology, including a masters-level review of research papers on the effects of vaccines. She knows what she's talking about.

4) I can't comment on how your child or another one got whooping cough. It's one of the least-studied vaccines, and there have been some legitimate concerns with it; but kids who have had the vaccine are much, much less likely to get it or carry it than kids who have not.

5) Formaldehyde I'll grant you, but aborted babies? I find that very hard to believe. If you mean stem cell research, it's called research because it isn't being used in many treatments yet, and its primary benefits aren't going to be in the vaccine industry in any case - they're working on organ and tissue regeneration, a completely different thing.

MamaLove

05-02-2006, 08:38 PM

It's all good, mama! I totally agree that we can all love and respect each other even though we don't agree on issues. Lots of mamas here vax and don't vax, but we're all friends helping each other love our little ones. Thanks for the info!

Here's the link about the aborted fetal tissue: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/humancell.htm

I don't know what's true and what's not, I just follow my heart and instincts and leave the rest to God! :hugs:

camperjen

05-02-2006, 08:50 PM

Basically, there are two times when autism shows up. It is either visible almost from birth, or it appears in kids who were developing normally, sometime between eighteen months and three years. There is no rhyme or reason to who gets it, but unvaccinated kids are as likely to get it as vaccinated ones. It just happens to have its onset at about the same time that many children are getting their most intensive round of vaccinations (especially the MMR) so parents assume a causal relationship. Out of the twenty or so studies I've read on this subject (in peer-reviewed medical journals of the highest standing) only one, very small one showed any kind of causal relationship between vaccines and autism. The rest basically said the relationship doesn't exist - that is, the onset of the disease and the timing of the vaccine are completely coincidental - neither one has any effect on the other.

There is certainly a connection between the amount of mercury left in vaccinations (even those that are supposedly "thimerasol free") and children found with toxic levels in their systems. There is certainly a connection between mercury/heavy metal poisoning and children who show symptoms on the Autistic spectrum.

one example: www.camsvoice.com

Velvetpage

05-03-2006, 06:10 AM

Send me to a peer-reviewed medical journal that makes the connection, please. Much as I feel for those families that have been hit by PDD, that website contains no scientifically-established proof.

Toxic levels of mercury can have more than one source. There are quite a few places in the States where ground water is poisoned by mercury, and I know of at least one in Canada (the city of Sudbury, with its extensive mining operations.) If, in fact, autism is caused by mercury poisoning - and I'm not convinced of that yet, because of the lack of good medical research that I've seen on the topic - I would expect it would have a lot more to do with environmental poisoning than the tiny amounts of preservative in vaccines.

As for the rise in the number of cases - well, PDD has only really been diagnosed consistently for about twenty years. Most of what is now diagnosed as PDD/autism wasn't even recognized as a disorder when I was a child. Increased and improved diagnosis accounts for the rise in numbers, without any corresponding rise in actual cases.

Velvetpage

05-03-2006, 06:19 AM

It looks to me, from that link, like some vaccines were produced using cells grown from fetal tissue five decades ago. No new tissue is being used. So there's no soylent green factor here; babies are not being aborted in order to provide ingredients for vaccines. It also appears that the tissues in question were used for cultures to grow live vaccines. When you have a throat swab done to test for strep throat, the swab is placed in a dish of blood products to see if the blood products grow the bacteria they're looking for. The fetal tissue was apparently used the same way as the blood culture. Long story short - the vaccines we get do not contain human biproducts, but they have been tested in human biproducts.

Drummer's Wife

05-03-2006, 02:15 PM

There is certainly a connection between the amount of mercury left in vaccinations (even those that are supposedly "thimerasol free") and children found with toxic levels in their systems. There is certainly a connection between mercury/heavy metal poisoning and children who show symptoms on the Autistic spectrum.

one example: www.camsvoice.com

:yeahthat:

and while I don't know much about the sweden thing, (I'm curious though so I'm going to look into it) I can't imagine that in 1997 they would offer thimerasol free shots, it was around that time that mercury was even being questioned as a danger... And then even now pediatricians and pharma companies can claim that they have a "thimerasol-free shot" they in fact have trace amounts in them, such a small amount that it doesn't have to be mentioned, even on the vax ingredients. But the amount accepted as *safe* is still unknown so why risk it? Just as the FDA leaves out certain ingredients in food because there are only trace amounts, the vaccine manufacturers do the same. Only problem is that we are talking about toxic poisons injected directly into the body, that will not have the benefit of the liver and kidneys to filter, not to mention the enzymes and digestive system to break them down to help the body process them.

and of course the whole mercury and possible connection to autism is just a small piece of the vaccine controversy. Not to mention the many other toxins used to preserve and make the vaccines. Even if all vax's were 100% thimerasol free I would still never ever allow my child to receive any shots. I much prefer to keep my child's immune system intact.

Drummer's Wife

05-03-2006, 02:31 PM

I am not convinced that thimersol is a good idea, but I'm absolutely convinced that the diseases being vaccinated against are more of a risk than the thimersol. The reason modern western nations have such an incredibly low infant and child mortality rate can be credited to the massive vaccination programs of the last fifty years. Your unvaccinated children are much, much less likely to come in contact with these diseases than they ever were before - because the rest of us are vaccinating our children. In other words, you're benefitting from our decision to vaccinate.

no, none of this is true, I encourage you to research on your own... it may take awhile but these statements are false. The part about diseases being vaccinated against being more of a risk then thimerasol got me. How so? Who dies from measles or mumps for example??? or what about chicken pox? children?? when, where? none that I know of. In this day in age they do not. And it's not because other's are vaccinating. It's because we live in a developed country, with clean water, sanitation, access to healthcare, etc, etc, etc, There is a problem with mass immunization against childhood diseases, because children are not able to acquire natural immunity because every one esle is vaccinating against CHILDHOOD diseases that are meant to run their course and strengthen the immune system. Problems arrise because so called artificial immunity from vaccines wears off once you are an adult putting you at a higher risk for complications. Think about chickenpox, kids get over it just fine while it tends to be more serious for adults. If we would have just left nature alone we wouldn't have these problems.

Does anyone suffer lifelong effects from vaccines? Do children die because of them? YES, and YES.

Dig deeper and you will realize that vaccines are NOT responsible for wiping disease out.

Velvetpage

05-03-2006, 03:25 PM

I have a friend whose child came down with chicken pox two days after being admitted to hospital for complications related to another vaccine-preventable illness. (She had an ear infection which was not caught in good time, though she had visited doctors for it, and by the time they realized what was going on, the infection had gotten into her skull.) She spent six weeks in Toronto Sick Kids' Hospital, in isolation because of the risk of chicken pox to the other kids in that hospital, received several weeks of IV antibiotics after that, and was on oral antibiotics for a total of six months. Twenty years ago, she would almost certainly have died. As it was, the two vaccines she hadn't gotten (the only two she hadn't gotten) turned out to be the ones that threatened her life. Chicken pox on its own is rarely life-threatening for kids, unless they happen to have something else that makes the complication especially dangerous. The same is true of mumps, measles, and several others.

Then there's the issue of population infection. You're right that naturally developed immunity is usually better and more effective for the child, barring a situation like the one I described above. The problem is that anyone who hasn't had the disease, or hasn't had it for decades, or has a compromised immune system, is at increased risk of developing it again, or of developing a spinoff disease from the same virus. Ever seen someone suffering from a chronic case of shingles? I have. It was passed to that person by their grandchild, whose chicken pox were completely uncomplicated. It left the elderly person in itchy agony for months and contributed to the decline that led to her death.

Then there's the issue of measles. Pregnant women who have not been vaccinated are putting their babies at risk if they come in contact with the disease. If they have school-age children who are not vaccinated, they've just multiplied their risk of exposure by the number of children they have. Measles in utero causes brain damage that is not correctable. Aside from saving my daughter the high fever and annoyance of the rash, I'd rather protect the unborn children of the women around me from accidental exposure through my child.

A vaccination is not just about the child in question. It's about a societal level of protection. Back in 1929, a bunch of my grandmother's cousins went to a Sunday School picnic. She didn't go - her baby sister was sick and she was needed at home. Of the forty-odd kids who went to that picnic, 30 were dead three weeks later, including most of her cousins, of diphtheria - a bacteria spread through stagnant water. Now, antibiotics would take a bite out of that number today - but the most dangerous time for diphtheria is in the first twenty-four hours, so many children would be in dire straits before their parents could get them to a doctor. Now consider polio. Fifty years ago, parents were lining up around the block to get an unproven, live vaccine for their children, knowing very well that the vaccine might kill them - and also knowing that contracting polio was a much bigger threat, because they had seen it and its effects. Polio has not been eradicated yet - it could come to North America at any time via an unvaccinated third-world immigrant, as tuberculosis has been doing over the last fifteen years. We have an illusion of safety due to the rarity of these diseases in our own lives, but it is an illusion. The smaller the world becomes, the more likely it is that one of these diseases will return to decimate society, and those who are unvaccinated will have contributed to spreading an epidemic that might otherwise have been contained.

I have already dug deeper. I've talked to doctors, to a friend of mine who is a microbiologist, I've read medical journals, I've read up on everything I can. Vaccines are the reason we as a society expect our children to get to adulthood. That has never been true before the last two generations, and it's still not true in many parts of the world. Good medical care in other areas is partially responsible as well - but the single biggest factor is mass vaccinations. As a responsible parent and citizen, I've decided that what is best for my children, my family, and my community, is to be protected to the furthest extent that medical science can provide.

MamaLove

05-03-2006, 03:41 PM

I read that 1997 was the year that mercury levels in shots were increased, along with the cases of autism. :headscratch: And as for the mercury in the water, maybe that is the cause of the non-vaxed autistic cases.

Yeah that, on the unnatural invasion injected straight into the bloodstream instead of through the natural disesase fighting organs. What a shock to the body shots are.

Improved sanitation (like easy access to hot water and antibacterial soap) get the credit for less risks in diseases as well as childbirth IMO. I've seen so much corruption and mistakes in modern medicine, it seems like it's more intended to make money than actually heal people.

My ds had whooping cough, but he survived and is fine now, (thank goodness). He healed naturally with herbal and homeopathic remedies. I didn't take him to a docter, and never regretted not vaxing. IMO, the risks involved with shots are worse than the risks of the diseases they are supposedly giving immunity for. After knowing that a cat was microchipped with a shot, I don't trust 'em one bit.

Lucky Child

05-03-2006, 03:44 PM

I have already dug deeper. I've talked to doctors, to a friend of mine who is a microbiologist, I've read medical journals, I've read up on everything I can. Vaccines are the reason we as a society expect our children to get to adulthood. That has never been true before the last two generations, and it's still not true in many parts of the world. Good medical care in other areas is partially responsible as well - but the single biggest factor is mass vaccinations. As a responsible parent and citizen, I've decided that what is best for my children, my family, and my community, is to be protected to the furthest extent that medical science can provide.

I have not weighed in on this discussion b/c I've don't have an opinion either way on vaxing or not. I think the point of this thread was to ask for help about a delayed schedule, etc. not to debate, although digression is always interesting and welcome.
I think that your points are taken here, but you are preaching to people who have their minds made up. I also think that your last sentence saying that you are a responsible parent and citizen assumes that those who don't assume that medical science is the know all end all aren't responsible.
Just asking those in the medical profession about something the medical profession advocates and endorses is somewhat irresponsible imo. I think that as drummers wife suggested you should dig deeper, as in beyond what the medical profession has to say... dig FURTHER than that.
For the record, I haven't made my mind up about vax's for my little guy one way or the other, but I definitely don't think that vaccines are the reason our society expects us to get from childhood to adulthood. Actually that statement was so far fetched that I just pretty much wrote off anything that you had said before that. Not a personal attack on you at all, just wanted to let you know my response as a person who is not for or against vaxing either way.

vick

05-03-2006, 03:46 PM

I totally support your having reached the conclusion that for you, vaccination is the way to go. I would never try to convince you otherwise.

However, I take exception to the wording of the following:

As a responsible parent and citizen, I've decided that what is best for my children, my family, and my community, is to be protected to the furthest extent that medical science can provide.

Your wording would seem to imply that those who don't vaccinate are irresponsible - and that's just not true. *Most* people who do not vaccinate are very responsible parents - there are bad apples among both camps, I'm sure.

I also don't feel that my community has any bearing on my choices WRT my child's health and well-being. Isabel isn't here to bolster herd immunity, she's here to live her life and make her own mark on society however she sees fit.

Then there's the issue of measles. Pregnant women who have not been vaccinated are putting their babies at risk if they come in contact with the disease. If they have school-age children who are not vaccinated, they've just multiplied their risk of exposure by the number of children they have. Measles in utero causes brain damage that is not correctable. Aside from saving my daughter the high fever and annoyance of the rash, I'd rather protect the unborn children of the women around me from accidental exposure through my child.

I think this example does a great job of showing how flawed our vaccination program really is - instead of vaccinating women when they reach child-bearing age, we vaccinate children to whom measles poses little threat. I don't believe in putting my child at risk for vaccine reactions (which I'm sure you'll grant are real threats and potentially very serious, even if you won't concede ground on autism) to protect a population whose own immunity has worn off. Since measles poses a risk to the fetus, it should be a woman's responsibility to have a measles titer pulled and, if she's concerned, get vaccinated before getting pregnant or TTC.

Just my :2cents:

Termie

05-03-2006, 03:48 PM

All I'll add is that as mumps is spreading in our state... 75% of those contracting the confirmed cases were never vaxed or were not vaxed at the proper times.

Drummer's Wife

05-03-2006, 04:23 PM

I have already dug deeper. I've talked to doctors, to a friend of mine who is a microbiologist, I've read medical journals, I've read up on everything I can. Vaccines are the reason we as a society expect our children to get to adulthood. That has never been true before the last two generations, and it's still not true in many parts of the world. Good medical care in other areas is partially responsible as well - but the single biggest factor is mass vaccinations. As a responsible parent and citizen, I've decided that what is best for my children, my family, and my community, is to be protected to the furthest extent that medical science can provide.

I really want to respond to a lot of what you posted, but I am nursing a wiggly child and cannot gather my thoughts at the moment but what I can tell you about the above quoted statement is that I know for a fact that Doctors have less than a 3 hr lecture on vaccines and childhood diseases in med school. It is all hand-picked and very one-sided information. Most do not even think of questioning what they are told and none of them have any time to do any further research on the issue while still in school. Then once they go into practice they are bombared daily with info from drug reps... so even if they consider thinking differently they are not given a chance. They also receive a percentage of all drugs prescribed including vaccines. So I guess what I'm saying is that I personally wouldn't hold much value to what a Dr has to say on vaccines, much less the rest of the mainstream medical community. I mean have you ever heard of LPN's injecting sick children with shots when it's pretty known that if you are going to vax wait until their immune system is at it's strongest. Either they are uninformed or do not care.

And your statement about mass immunization being responsible for children making it to adulthood is so far from truth, really do you think that is the only thing that has happened in the last two generations?!?

And I respect your decision to vaccinate, if that is what you are 100% comfortable with. But I personally feel like those who do not are very much responsible parents and citizens and that has nothing to do with the rest of society.

keegans_mommy

05-03-2006, 05:13 PM

Science REFUSES to acknowledge any connection, though there are Mamas all around the globe who have seen the effects in their young ones firsthand.

Me! I have 2 children damaged by vax's! My boys will not have any more shots!!!!!

We are in the process of following legal proceedures for special accomidations for Tiffany (who is ADHD and Asperger's) Both on the Autisim spectrum. She has problems that are horribly damaging to her self-esteem as is and I am furious with the FDA for saying that vax's are safe! :dontlikeit:

Now, we feel it's our responsibility to be the voice for our children and do our own investigations in regards to what the dr's are telling us is right. I don't trust everything the dr says, I take it all with a grain of salt. But ultimately, parents have the say, parents are the responsible party and it's the parents AND the child who lives with the decisions made. We are living with our regrets of NOT educating ourselves on vaxinations, how they are made, why we get them, are they really necessary and are there natural ways of taking care of natural diseases and illnesses? Nature provides a way for all living creatures, humans are no exception.

Getting off my soap box now, before I offend somebody. :soapbox:

keegans_mommy

05-03-2006, 05:26 PM

As for the rise in the number of cases - well, PDD has only really been diagnosed consistently for about twenty years. Most of what is now diagnosed as PDD/autism wasn't even recognized as a disorder when I was a child. Increased and improved diagnosis accounts for the rise in numbers, without any corresponding rise in actual cases.

Not to be cheaky or anything but do you realize that Mercury is a well known neurotoxin? It stays within the body and poisons the brain. Yes, there are other ways to get mercury poisoning but do we have to purposefully inject ourselves with it? The FDA finally admited that they screwed up and it's now banned but too late for us. 2 children on the autisim spectrum!

As for Autisim and those on the spectrum, 1 in 6 children are on the spectrum, that number has risen greatly in recent years! Although the number is just NOW decreasing since thermisol/mercury was banned by the FDA in 1998 but alot of doctors still were using the stores of thermisol/mercury tainted vax's until as late as 2003!

And as for the question of why un-vax'd children sometimes end up on the autisim spectrum: do you have almagam's (mercury fillings?) Did YOU have your vax's? Do you eat fish? Where do you work? Is it someplace where there is paint? Exhaust? Pollutants and toxins? These things build up in the parents bodies for years and years and these things are passed on to the growing baby inside the mother. That could be an explanation for un-vax'd children being on the autisim spectrum :)

Ok, I am done :blush:

MamaLove

05-03-2006, 05:48 PM

:hugs: More power to you, mama! Tell it like it is and let the truth be known. Thanks for your experienced info on this heavy issue, which makes me so sad. :cry: I get really emotional with these vax threads, so I'm done now, too.

:pray: I am praying for our children to overcome all the obsticles of this corrupt modern world. I have complete faith in them, too!

Drummer's Wife

05-03-2006, 05:52 PM

:hugs: to Keegans mom thanks for sharing your story, as horrible as it is other's will benefit from knowing what you are going thru.

I also tend to get emotional with this issue as it's something I feel very passionate and angry about so I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Velvetpage

05-03-2006, 05:52 PM

My ds had whooping cough, but he survived and is fine now, (thank goodness). He healed naturally with herbal and homeopathic remedies. I didn't take him to a docter, and never regretted not vaxing. IMO, the risks involved with shots are worse than the risks of the diseases they are supposedly giving immunity for. After knowing that a cat was microchipped with a shot, I don't trust 'em one bit.

You were very lucky. I know of a few infants who have died of whooping cough, mostly when I was a child. I have a friend in California who decided not to go to a baby shower for a preemie of her acquaintance, just last winter. That baby's immune system was already in bad shape from being premature. It turns out my friend had whooping cough. That baby would almost certainly have died if she had contracted that disease. The friend lost out on a promotion and was sick for several months - and it was pure, dumb luck that she's not involved with any tiny babies, who could have died from it.

Drummer's Wife

05-03-2006, 05:56 PM

You were very lucky. I know of a few infants who have died of whooping cough, mostly when I was a child. I have a friend in California who decided not to go to a baby shower for a preemie of her acquaintance, just last winter. That baby's immune system was already in bad shape from being premature. It turns out my friend had whooping cough. That baby would almost certainly have died if she had contracted that disease. The friend lost out on a promotion and was sick for several months - and it was pure, dumb luck that she's not involved with any tiny babies, who could have died from it.

Just curious, how old were these infants? The DTaP vax is not given before 6 months and that is when the risk of death or complications is greatest so I'm not sure that having the shot would have made any difference.

Velvetpage

05-03-2006, 05:57 PM

Not to be cheaky or anything but do you realize that Mercury is a well known neurotoxin? It stays within the body and poisons the brain. Yes, there are other ways to get mercury poisoning but do we have to purposefully inject ourselves with it?

Of course we don't. That's why we opt for the thimersol-free vaccines. But it seems silly to me to plug that one, tiny hole in exposure, while gushing torrents of environmental toxins are pouring through. I'm sorry for your troubles, I really am. But there's no proof that vaccines contributed to them, since, as you say, there are plenty of environmental sources available. And all of that is assuming that mercury poisoning is actually responsible for autism - the link has been posited but not proven.

Velvetpage

05-03-2006, 05:59 PM

keegans_mommy

05-03-2006, 06:00 PM

velvetpage-I understand your POV, I use to be you and have the same exact passion FOR vax, until we were given children who had reactions to the vax, the ones that are suppose to protect our children. And then I have researched everything I can find and talked to the medical community about why we NEED them (leaving what we have been taught all our lives) and we mostly don't need them and most adults are NOT currently vax'd as our childhood vax's are NOT up to date. Most adults are not covered in that area. ;)

Drummer's Wife

05-03-2006, 06:03 PM

The outbreak happened because fewer people were getting vaccinated, thereby raising the number of cases in the general population and raising the overall risk of exposure. As I said before, it's not just about the kids themselves - it's about societal protection. The best way to protect a tiny baby is to make sure they never come in contact with the disease in question, and the best way to ensure that is if everyone around them is vaccinated.

So would you keep a baby away from everyone? First of all there is no way to know the vax status of every child you come in contact with. 2nd as Keegan's mom just said the majority of adults are not current as far as booster shots... so I guess stay away from grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc... Even if they were vax'd at some point they more then likely have lost the possible immunity not to mention that a ton of fully vaccinated people get whooping cough every year. Plus the number of vax's we received as children is far less then what children are injected with now.

oh and there is a higher chance of complications and death from the DTaP vax then there is of dying from pertussis. I'd much rather take the less risky option.

And as far as the rest of the population, my children come first, I have to put their best interest before other's. And there is no way I'll let them be used as experiments for vaccines. Really it will be years before we know the entire truth.

keegans_mommy

05-03-2006, 06:07 PM

Of course we don't. That's why we opt for the thimersol-free vaccines. But it seems silly to me to plug that one, tiny hole in exposure, while gushing torrents of environmental toxins are pouring through. I'm sorry for your troubles, I really am. But there's no proof that vaccines contributed to them, since, as you say, there are plenty of environmental sources available. And all of that is assuming that mercury poisoning is actually responsible for autism - the link has been posited but not proven.

But did you realize that in testing children within the autisim spectrum, high levels of heavy metals are found in their systems?

My oldest DD was born in 1995, the next in 1999 but the vax's were still being given through 2003 WITH thermisol/mercury. There are other nasties in vax's too, even though those preservatives have been removed. I wonder what they cause. :headscratch: Regardless, if a person who's already got sensitivities to several things in life were injected with what the FDA says is a "safe" level of heavy metals, what do we all expect should happen to that person?

Even my DH, who had a mercury/thirisol tainted flu shot this past january, said that after the shot he experience a "brain fog", severe lack of concentration and he became a different person in our marriage. He was diagnosed with ADHD as a child so he's already on the autisim spectrum. AFTER we made our findings we did a detox for ourselves and he has stated a HUGE difference in brain funtion and he is such a better person! Our marriage was NOT going to make it as it stood. That sold me. :thumbsup:

SheilaJoy

05-03-2006, 08:52 PM

I have no desire to get in the middle of this debate, as most people tend to get nasty, but I do want to add that I also am offended by those who think they are more responsible parents for getting shots for their kids. We all want the best for our children, for some this may mean getting vaxed and for others it may not be. We shouldn't make each other feel like bad parents because of these choices.

lovemygirls

05-03-2006, 08:55 PM

keegans_mommy

05-03-2006, 09:07 PM

Ginger-Just by you asking for information makes you a responsible question, IMHO! :hugs:

I do apologize if I crawled underneath the skin of some of the participants here. I tend to let emotion get in the way with this topic as it's near and VERY dear to my heart. :blush:

Lucky Child

05-03-2006, 11:44 PM

keegans_mommy

05-04-2006, 06:26 AM

Ginger, I what I MEANT to say was "you asking questions makes you a responsible PERSON" Not a responsible "question" :giggle: No wonder you were confused :D

Rachele-I am glad, I was a bit concerned after I settled down and wondered how much damage I did, :blush:

Velvetpage

05-04-2006, 07:50 AM

I think I said somewhere further up the thread that I respected people's right to make their own decision, but I have a hard time respecting the decision itself. That's as close as I can come on this one, honestly. I've seen this from the other side - the side where a child was exposed because the people around her refused vaccinations, and nearly died of it. So I'm pretty passionate about this, too.

That said, I debate opinions, not personalities, and no offense is meant in any direction, ever. If I implied otherwise, I apologize.

Velvetpage

05-04-2006, 07:52 AM

As it is mine - are we at the point where we need to agree to disagree? I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else, but when I get into my letter-to-the-editor mode, it takes a lot to dig me out.

Shannon

05-09-2006, 06:33 PM

I have to wonder why Velvetpage is considered to be getting under others skins? She has openly and fully explained why she fully supports vax's. On the same hand...so have all the other mama's that are against vax's or delayed vax's. Is passion only allowed if you are protesting something? I just don't understand why it is ok to say "I wouldn't dare inject something harmful into my baby"(which is very much what I am NOT doing) but not ok to say that "as a responsible parent I chose to vax" Both statesments acually point negative fingers at the other...but it's only being "outed" on one side. I strongly disagree with that...lets be consistent...either it's ok to say/imply that one is wrong or it's not...for both sides.

kezoo

05-09-2006, 09:06 PM

I am not convinced that thimersol is a good idea, but I'm absolutely convinced that the diseases being vaccinated against are more of a risk than the thimersol. The reason modern western nations have such an incredibly low infant and child mortality rate can be credited to the massive vaccination programs of the last fifty years.

Ummmm, we don't have an incredibly low infant & child mortality rate. In fact, for a modern western nation, the US has an appalling rate. We are near the bottom of the list out of 33 industrialized nations, higher only than Latvia!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060509/ap_on_he_me/infant_mortality;_ylt=A0SOwkzISGFEKdAAJABZ24cA;_yl u=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

Also, you said measles is the disease most harmful to a pg woman - actually, it is rubella. We don't vax, but respect people's decision, based on doing your research and asking questions! If you read about the ingredients of vaccines and how little the long-term effects have been tested, but still feel your contribution to herd immunity is more important, then that's your personal choice for your family. I agree that herd immunity is good (in theory), but not at the expense of my child. I don't know *anybody* who has either contracted or been seriously ill from any of the diseases we have vaccines for (aside from chicken pox) - well, my dh had measles and my dad had measles, mumps, rubella and pertussis (whooping cough) - and let me tell you - he is absolutely the healthiest person I know! To me, that is a great advertisement for building a child's immunity naturally.