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hobbsandbean
11-30-2007, 11:17 PM
First, a quick peace-keeping disclaimer - I know this might be hitting some sensitive subjects (the environment, motherhood and abortion off the top of my head), but I really am curious if this is a view that any of you have encountered regularly or at all. So lets all keep cool heads. :mrgreen:

I'm off to bed right now, but am wondering if any of you saw this British article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1879) featuring a couple of women who refuse to have children to "save" the planet and if anyone has an idea as to how common such a radical take is. I have obviously heard lots of talk of having a smaller family to keep the environmental impact down, but never this extreme.

FWIW, I am not really very green at all, and don't run in those circles - is that why this is a new view to me? I cloth diaper and try to conserve as a steward of the resources God has given us here on earth but believe that He is the sustaining force for all of creation. Let's just say that abortion for the planet is NOT something I would subscribe to. Anyway, let's hear your :2cents: . Thanks!

DivineNature
11-30-2007, 11:30 PM
I'm sorry. I had to stop reading and can't even comment. That probably tells ya what I feel about the article.

ktmelody
11-30-2007, 11:34 PM
Yes, there are people that think that they should not have children. They think the world is overpopulated.

I see 2 problems with this. (there are lots of other reasons too)

Look at China and the one child law. Now they have an aging population and NO one to take care of the old and aging people. That is not a good thing IMO. When people stop having babies, people age. Who is going to care for those people. The government wont and cant. I could go on and on.

#2:
Who decides who stays and who goes? These peoples parents gave them a chance at life. If you think i should give up my right to have children, how do I choose that? Which of my children live. I will have as many as I like.

I am green (as green as I can be) and I am pro-life. I think views like this are ridiculous.

madebytrudi
11-30-2007, 11:38 PM
I personally believe that the Earth is big enough to support many more people. One guy I knew figured everyone on the earth could fit in the state of Michigan with room to spare... In the end, I believe what comes around goes around. If we don't take care, we'll suffer. God made the Earth to adapt. I think life precious. Don't litter. Recycle, be wise and hope that your pocketbook shows Big Business that we don't like their methods of production & pollution for a quick buck .... Our population is starting to become inverted.... most people are only having 1 or 2 kids, which is barely replacing the parents... many cultures are experiencing the same thing (china, especially) so our population is coming to a screeching halt. On the track we are traveling.... social security will be gone because there are less & less people paying into it. Population is definately slowing down.

no flames please..... just my thoughts.... in a civil manner...

madebytrudi
11-30-2007, 11:39 PM
Yes, there are people that think that they should not have children. They think the world is overpopulated.

I see 2 problems with this. (there are lots of other reasons too)

Look at China and the one child law. Now they have an aging population and NO one to take care of the old and aging people. That is not a good thing IMO. When people stop having babies, people age. Who is going to care for those people. The government wont and cant. I could go on and on.

#2:
Who decides who stays and who goes. These peoples parents gave them a chance at life. If you think i should give up my right to have children, how do I choose that. I will have as many as I like.

I am green (as green as I can be) and I am pro-life. I think views like this are ridiculous.


:thumbsup: You said it better than I did!! totally agreed!

hippydippymama
11-30-2007, 11:41 PM
I think it's taking things way too far, but I'm thankful people like that aren't going to have kids anyway.

You can do a better job of saving the planet by having a reasonable number of children and teaching them how to be peaceful, frugal, Earth-respecting individuals than you can by damning people who procreate.

Oh and FTR I'm pro-choice. But having an abortion just because you think one more human is going to tilt the Earth off its axis is ridiculous.

cravnp99
11-30-2007, 11:52 PM
WOW, this is a pretty *far out there* concept for me... I don't even know what to say! As a woman who has dreamed of having a family from a very young age, I can't even think of not having children... I consider myself to be "fairly green", but not to the extreme, but I would have never considered a child to be a burden to the future of our world! That's almost saying that each of our lives are "in vain" because we consume the earth's resources... should none of us been born? If there were no people to popluate the earth, then what would be the point? God created the earth for humans to "be fruitful and multiply." - so that's my viewpoint on it..

And I really can't even fathom someone having an abortion for this reason. (or any reason for that matter)... what's the difference between adopting because there are so many children that need homes and raising a child that wasn't "planned".... both lives have already been created... kwim?

I believe we are to be good stewards of the earth and I don't think it's wrong to choose not to have children, if you feel that is your calling in life (just as some people are called to live single.) But it doesn't sound like these couples are leaving room for God to decide. So from a Christian point of view this doesn't make sense to me. (but I'm guessing they aren't Christian, so this wouldn't be important to them...)

I know a christian couple who said when they got married that they didn't plan to have children, but would only adopt if they decided they wanted a family.... they now have two children.:giggle: So I guess God changed their minds! They weren't complete environmentalists, but just thought the world was too cruel to bring more innocent lives into it...

thanks for the interesting article... some food for thought. Always good to stretch our minds & ideas of how we view/think about things...

cravnp99
11-30-2007, 11:55 PM
Yes, there are people that think that they should not have children. They think the world is overpopulated.

I see 2 problems with this. (there are lots of other reasons too)

Look at China and the one child law. Now they have an aging population and NO one to take care of the old and aging people. That is not a good thing IMO. When people stop having babies, people age. Who is going to care for those people. The government wont and cant. I could go on and on.

#2:
Who decides who stays and who goes. These peoples parents gave them a chance at life. If you think i should give up my right to have children, how do I choose that. I will have as many as I like.

I am green (as green as I can be) and I am pro-life. I think views like this are ridiculous.


ooo.. good point... you're so much smarter than I am. I wasn't looking at the bigger picture, just my little vantage point!

CrunchyMama0607
12-01-2007, 12:01 AM
I cant think very much tonight but just wanted to add that it sickens me that the woman in the article could terminate her pregnancy so easily :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: (((holds in mean words against her)))

"I've never felt a twinge of guilt about what I did, and have honestly never wondered what might have been."

How the hell can you NOT feel any guilt about taking your flesh and blood's life?!

CrunchyMama0607
12-01-2007, 12:06 AM
Yes, there are people that think that they should not have children. They think the world is overpopulated.

I see 2 problems with this. (there are lots of other reasons too)

Look at China and the one child law. Now they have an aging population and NO one to take care of the old and aging people. That is not a good thing IMO. When people stop having babies, people age. Who is going to care for those people. The government wont and cant. I could go on and on.

#2:
Who decides who stays and who goes. These peoples parents gave them a chance at life. If you think i should give up my right to have children, how do I choose that. I will have as many as I like.

I am green (as green as I can be) and I am pro-life. I think views like this are ridiculous.

:agreed: 100%!

shutterbugmom
12-01-2007, 12:11 AM
I personally believe that the Earth is big enough to support many more people. One guy I knew figured everyone on the earth could fit in the state of Michigan with room to spare... In the end, I believe what comes around goes around. If we don't take care, we'll suffer. God made the Earth to adapt. I think life precious. Don't litter. Recycle, be wise and hope that your pocketbook shows Big Business that we don't like their methods of production & pollution for a quick buck .... Our population is starting to become inverted.... most people are only having 1 or 2 kids, which is barely replacing the parents... many cultures are experiencing the same thing (china, especially) so our population is coming to a screeching halt. On the track we are traveling.... social security will be gone because there are less & less people paying into it. Population is definately slowing down.

no flames please..... just my thoughts.... in a civil manner...


well said imo.

Btw I have always admired your posts!! :blush: :hugs:

ktmelody
12-01-2007, 12:16 AM
On another note.

The earth will adapt. Yes, we have problems like Global warming etc. But this is nothing new. There have been ice ages and warming trends for millions of years. Of course our consumption has not helped it, but the earth can adapt. Plus, if you stop making people, who will be here to figure our and devise plans to keep the earth alive and well. We need people to invent new things, to harbor new plans for the earth and our consumption. With out more people the earth will surely die.

The argument could go on and on. I am happy that nasty lady decided not to have children. I would not want her to be my mother.

CrunchyMama0607
12-01-2007, 12:19 AM
On another note.

The earth will adapt. Yes, we have problems like Global warming etc. But this is nothing new. There have been ice ages and warming trends for millions of years. Of course our consumption has not helped it, but the earth can adapt. Plus, if you stop making people, who will be here to figure our and devise plans to keep the earth alive and well. We need people to invent new things, to harbor new plans for the earth and our consumption. With out more people the earth will surely die.

The argument could go on and on. I am happy that nasty lady decided not to have children. I would not want her to be my mother.

I was thinking the same thing but with a hyper toddler bouncing a ball ion my head and talking nonstop I cant think straight! :lostit:

tommymommy
12-01-2007, 02:28 AM
Plus, if you stop making people, who will be here to figure our and devise plans to keep the earth alive and well. We need people to invent new things, to harbor new plans for the earth and our consumption. With out more people the earth will surely die.

Wow...you and I could not have more polarized opinions on this subject! IMO the earth could take or leave us, she can take care of herself.

There is a phenomenon out there that biologists refer to as "natural regulation". It means that if a habitat becomes overpopulated then prey/ food will become scarce and the weaker ones will die off. Or a disease or genetic disorder will be introduced and the weaker ones will die off. I believe that Global Warming is our natural regulation...but we couldn't necessarily control it if we wanted to.

I have two (youngish male) cousins who are hard-core vegan. One is quite vocal about the fact that he will never have children. The other tends to keep his views to himself. I respect them and they respect my choice to have children.

I would consider myself quite green (in a non preachy way) and I want to have children that will grow up and make a difference in the world. It all comes down to how you raise them.

BTW, I'm pro choice even though I don't think I could ever have an abortion.

lulusmom
12-01-2007, 06:42 AM
Until I got bitten by the baby bug that is how I thought. I also consulted a doc about sterilization. I still do feel guilty sometimes for even having a baby and wanting more babies, but I rationalize it to myself by thinking that the very least I can do is to teach my kids to be as green as possible. A few friends of mine also feel the same way, and refer to mamas as "breeders." Some of them have had tubals, and it's really hard to find a doc that will give a woman one if she hasn't already had kids so they had to be very persistent, and feel that if they change their minds and want kids later they can always adopt or do foster care. It's a personal choice, just like having many kids, so I don't see anything wrong with it. A pp quoted in italics:


Look at China and the one child law. Now they have an aging population and NO one to take care of the old and aging people. That is not a good thing IMO. When people stop having babies, people age. Who is going to care for those people. The government wont and cant. I could go on and on.

In China and in many other countries, including the Philippines where I'm from, families are not so separate as they are here in the states. It's not like there are no young people at all, and one household might be a married couple with a child, parents of the couple, a brother or sister and their spouse and child, all living together. In communities where families live together or nearby there will always be care for the children and the elderly.

Who decides who stays and who goes. These peoples parents gave them a chance at life. If you think i should give up my right to have children, how do I choose that. I will have as many as I like.

My friends and I and probably most people who advocate "nonbreeding" are in no way talking about forced sterilization or making people do something against their will. However, if more people did take the initiative to have no children, or only one or two children, the huge toll on the earth's resources will be lessened. We are the only species on earth that has no checks and balances as to our consumption of natural resources. Any other species, if they were to overconsume their resources and natural habitat they will die. The species experiences natural population control. Humans have found a way to manipulate nature and overconsume and reproduce at a rate that far exceeds what she is able to replenish. Every other species has to adapt to nature, and it's folly to assume that nature will make an exception and adapt to us. At some point, and many scientists think that point is rapidly approaching, there will be too many people for the resources available. Anything that we can do to slow that down is a good thing, and I don't feel that those ladies should be bashed for taking the initiative to make a personal sacrifice like that. jmho

LydiaJW
12-01-2007, 07:57 AM
Many european countries aren't replacing themselves, and many are actually paying families to have more children!

In my family, we are planning on letting God dictate how many children we have, however we are committed to leaving as small a carbon footprint as we can. We have 1 gas efficient vehicle, I line dry, we recycle, we garden, etc. I think there are worse things for the environment than children.

Also the first woman in the article talked about how it was for the environment, but then went on to say that without kids they can live the lifestyle that they want :headscratch: including jet setting across the world on vacations. Again I think my family of 5 with our rare vacations probably use less than she and her husband do.

ktmelody
12-01-2007, 09:47 AM
Wow...you and I could not have more polarized opinions on this subject! IMO the earth could take or leave us, she can take care of herself.

There is a phenomenon out there that biologists refer to as "natural regulation". It means that if a habitat becomes overpopulated then prey/ food will become scarce and the weaker ones will die off. Or a disease or genetic disorder will be introduced and the weaker ones will die off. I believe that Global Warming is our natural regulation...but we couldn't necessarily control it if we wanted to.

I have two (youngish male) cousins who are hard-core vegan. One is quite vocal about the fact that he will never have children. The other tends to keep his views to himself. I respect them and they respect my choice to have children.

I would consider myself quite green (in a non preachy way) and I want to have children that will grow up and make a difference in the world. It all comes down to how you raise them.

BTW, I'm pro choice even though I don't think I could ever have an abortion.



I do agree with you somewhat. I do believe in "natural selection" I do believe that the earth will get rid of what she does not want via disease, weather etc.

All in all these are just my OPINIONS and I am allowed to state them. I have 5 children. I would have 20 more if I could. I do not have children for religious or selfish purposes. I cannot imagine making the decision not to have children. I beleive there is no right or wrong answer. Have as many as you want, there are obviously people out there that should not. But I don't think having children makes you "less green" than any one else. What makes you "green" is what you can do for the earth, and I beleive i am doing my best. I could always do more and so could anyone else.

mengmommy
12-01-2007, 11:07 AM
My friends and I and probably most people who advocate "nonbreeding" are in no way talking about forced sterilization or making people do something against their will. However, if more people did take the initiative to have no children, or only one or two children, the huge toll on the earth's resources will be lessened. We are the only species on earth that has no checks and balances as to our consumption of natural resources. Any other species, if they were to overconsume their resources and natural habitat they will die. The species experiences natural population control. Humans have found a way to manipulate nature and overconsume and reproduce at a rate that far exceeds what she is able to replenish. Every other species has to adapt to nature, and it's folly to assume that nature will make an exception and adapt to us. At some point, and many scientists think that point is rapidly approaching, there will be too many people for the resources available. Anything that we can do to slow that down is a good thing, and I don't feel that those ladies should be bashed for taking the initiative to make a personal sacrifice like that. jmho

Yeah, but *most* animals also have multiple babies at once too because another animal will eat as many of their babies as possible. I don't think humans can really be compared to other animals much. We are just different.

That said, what a terrible attitude! :cry: God can definitely provide for as many babies as HE chooses to bring to this earth. Just another sign that the end is near I think. :ohyeah:

HappyEarthCreations
12-01-2007, 11:25 AM
I think if these people have such strong beliefs about not having children, they should absolutely be sterilized. If she had been able to be sterilized earlier, that first woman would never have had an abortion.

I believe that we humans absolutely have an impact on the earth, global warming, etc. We only have 2 children, but as our family has grown I've definitely noticed the increase in water usage, food consumed, etc. and that's with us being as green as possible. But I agree with pp that in some countries (Britain included) their fertility rates have gotten so low that they're expecting major problems as the population ages. The Australian government is offering a huge tax credit for families choosing to have a third child.

Someone's got to be having the babies and bringing them up to respect the earth. That's what we've decided to do (but we're stopping at two.)

remrath
12-01-2007, 11:47 AM
wow, what a hard topic. First, I don't believe in abortion so I have a hard time with the first women. Second, I'm a Christian and I really can't fathom the attitude at all. To me, God gave me the desire for children and for most christian couples I know, they knew when they were done as well. Sometimes it breaks my heart to know what a cruel world I'm bringing my baby into but I continue to think of all the advances towards making the world cleaner and realize, my little girl might be part of the solution. Since I'm already convinced she's the smartest baby ever, maybe she'll find a cure for AIDS?

That being said. I don't support the abortion, but I can support the choice to not have children. It still hurts my heart though.

brighteyes mom
12-01-2007, 11:52 AM
If that is how she feels, then she shouldn't have children. (that woman's missing a link in the "woman" gene) I just don't see how you could have an abortion and not have any remorse about it. I don't condone abortion as a method of birth control, etc, but rather to help someone who feels like they wouldn't be able to give their child the best life possible (in situations of a mistake, bc didn't work etc). I have friends who feel similar to this womans views, only not nearly as extreme. My good friend has alot of mental/medical issues within her family and doesn't want to have children as to not pass "bad" genes along, but would adopt.
I remember when i was in school, and they were teaching about population etc, and there was the comment on an american family who lived in a large house with 2 kids and used a ton of electricity and water and gas, etc and compares it with a african family of 8 but cooks on a open fire etc.- who is making a bigger impact on the earth?
I also feel that if you have children, you should be teaching them to be green, respectful, so on and so forth individuals. This woman doesn't sound like she's saving the earth any by not having children, but more using it as an excuse to feel justified in other "non-green" things she does. :2cents:

brighteyes mom
12-01-2007, 12:05 PM
I was reffering above to the first woman.
The second woman however, I feel is much more complete in her take on saving the planet- however, i disagree that if she had a child none of what they're doing would be possible, instead, you teach the child.

Jaimelynne04
12-01-2007, 12:14 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if she's grateful that her mother didn't feel the same way.....

mengmommy
12-01-2007, 12:17 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if she's grateful that her mother didn't feel the same way.....

Yes, no kidding!

Rannensmom
12-01-2007, 12:33 PM
Couples decide not to have children for many different reasons....I think as long as they are taking proper precautions and not resorting to abortion as birth control, that it's up to them, and it's at least nice that they are making an effort. Especially if it's just THEIR choice and they aren't trying to force it on others

bohlander04
12-01-2007, 12:41 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if she's grateful that her mother didn't feel the same way.....

:yeahthat: I only made it through the first few paragraphs and closed it out. :dontlikeit: I don't know what to say.

SandyG
12-01-2007, 01:04 PM
i shoudl buy her the book an inconvienient book :lostit:
i wont comment sorry, that is just too much for me .

SandyG
12-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if she's grateful that her mother didn't feel the same way.....
i always think that too.

lilyfish
12-01-2007, 06:31 PM
To each her own, but I find the concept of aborting a child (especially if you were too lazy to use BC) *just* so that the world does not become overpopulated DESPICABLE... and I think it's a lame copout for women trying to morally justify the choice they made.

For the record, I *am* pro-choice. I am not pro-malevolent insanity.. lol.

frenchie
12-01-2007, 08:38 PM
Spend some time on VeggieBoards.com...there are a LOT of people that won't have children because they want to save the Earth. Not just there...but that is the first place I ever heard of such a belief. If that's where their heart is, more power to them.

ETA: Aborting a child for that reason is very upsetting to me. I DO think the medical industry should be more kind to those who WANT to be sterilized. It's almost impossible to get sterilized if you are under 40 and have no children.

jaydog0610
12-01-2007, 08:57 PM
Interesting article..
I think it's great she tries to live green.........other than that I think shes NUTS.

I used to think I was pro-choice until I miscarried and delivered a baby at 16 weeks and another at 20 weeks. It really changes your opinion...I think it would change anyones, maybe even hers...

Just my two:2cents:

crittercrazy3
12-01-2007, 09:01 PM
I don't believe in overpopulation. we can fit us all humans in a state probably. there is overpopulation of CITIES, yes, but not the earth.

has anyone heard about the "movement" that says we should reduce the population to 1/2 a billion? umm..how? that's scary right there.

ETA: just found the georgia guidestones thingy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

lulusmom
12-01-2007, 09:40 PM
Yeah, but *most* animals also have multiple babies at once too because another animal will eat as many of their babies as possible. I don't think humans can really be compared to other animals much. We are just different.

That said, what a terrible attitude! :cry: God can definitely provide for as many babies as HE chooses to bring to this earth. Just another sign that the end is near I think. :ohyeah:

The animals that have multiple babies cannot be compared to humans, who are not meant to give birth to litters of babies at once. The survival strategy is completely different. The more babies an animal gives birth to at once, the less attention is provided to them. Insects give birth to hundreds of babies yet don't care for them at all after they pupate. Dogs give birth to anywhere from a few to a dozen pups and only take care of them for a couple months. Humans and other large primates only give birth to one or two at a time (fertility treatments excluded) but they have a care period of years. We are still animals who use resources that are replenished at a finite rate. Once there are too many of us, or as is the case especially here in the US enough of us using too many resources that are distributed poorly, there will be a point where the earth cannot sustain us.

eta: That being said, the women who choose not to have children are doing something good. The women who choose to have big families likewise should be obligated to be as green as possible and raise their children that way too. The argument that raising a child green is better than not having a child at all is in some ways contentious simply because you cannot really every make up for the massive amount of resources used per person here in the us. I mean, is it really possible for one person to grow up to adulthood and live their life with a ZERO for their carbon footprint? No. You can certainly live more environmentally frugally than normal, but really it would take either EVERYONE on the planet to stop their environmentally destructive ways and live in a green utopia, or to simply cut down on the number of human beings reproduced. It seems that being green vs not having kids is simply attacking the environmental problem from two different angles. I think that the damage is severe enough that to really make a difference more people would have to take both approaches, to be as green as possible AND not to reproduce more than yourself and your spouse. I'm not trying to upset any of the mamas here who have more than 2 wonderful beautiful children, because everyone on the board seems to be at least a little more environmentally conscious than the average schmoe. But when you think about the average family of three kids or more who use disposable diapers, all kinds of plastic baggies and utensils, non-biodegradable soaps and cleaning products, don't recycle, use lots of fossil fuels to get to and fro and power their houses, eat pounds and pounds of meat annually, waste tons of water and buy things new whenever they need things, then how can you really say that more average people SHOULDN'T cut down on the number of children they are making to grow up and follow in their destructive footsteps? I'm no longer a religious person, but I do know a thing or two about Christianity. To trust in God is one thing but standing back and waiting for him to make everything better seems foolish. God helps those who help themselves. We need to do what we can, and then leave it to him to do what we can't. If some people think that not adding to the population is doing what they can then I think it's a good thing.

jenkathryn
12-01-2007, 09:41 PM
I'm pro-life and think that is so sad that the first woman doesn't even feel any remorse about killing her child. I feel really badly for her and hope that if she ever realizes what she has done that she can receive the support that she'll need.
While reading the article, given her views I wondered why she didn't consider abstinence since producing the pill and especially having an optional surgery uses up the Earth's resources too-- just an interesting thought.

Ashwin'sMommy
12-01-2007, 09:58 PM
I haven't read all the responses yet, but the first woman especially is a nut IMO - she says that they have time and resources to travel and vacation - yeah,. that is so NOT selfish...:headscratch:

I say if she is that committed then why not commit suicide??

Tara

Ashwin'sMommy
12-01-2007, 10:02 PM
I think it's taking things way too far, but I'm thankful people like that aren't going to have kids anyway.

You can do a better job of saving the planet by having a reasonable number of children and teaching them how to be peaceful, frugal, Earth-respecting individuals than you can by damning people who procreate.

Oh and FTR I'm pro-choice. But having an abortion just because you think one more human is going to tilt the Earth off its axis is ridiculous.

:clapclap:

Ashwin'sMommy
12-01-2007, 10:08 PM
I was thinking the same thing but with a hyper toddler bouncing a ball ion my head and talking nonstop I cant think straight! :lostit:

Don't you know you are being punished you SELFISH woman LOL!

Ashwin'sMommy
12-01-2007, 10:16 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if she's grateful that her mother didn't feel the same way.....

Good pt!

Ashwin'sMommy
12-01-2007, 10:21 PM
I'm pro-life and think that is so sad that the first woman doesn't even feel any remorse about killing her child. I feel really badly for her and hope that if she ever realizes what she has done that she can receive the support that she'll need.
While reading the article, given her views I wondered why she didn't consider abstinence since producing the pill and especially having an optional surgery uses up the Earth's resources too-- just an interesting thought.

Another awesome point - I guess having an abortion is more acceptable...and less selfish! What crap!

kittycat9
12-01-2007, 11:31 PM
What they are doing, is their opinion and rights - I won't comment on it beyond that.

For my opinion on the global topic, I'll keep it limited to my personal life. My DH and I share the belief that there are many children out there that need a loving home. We are done have our own children (for many reasons). There is alot of talk about pro-life/pro-choice - but in the end, someone has to care for those children than are born. If the parents cannot, than we need to step in and do so. 9 of 14 grandchildren on my Mom's side are adopted. Our family has struggled with infertility, and just random blessings to come by those children. None of which have ever been treated any differently than the others.

I think it's wonderful for those families that are fertile to have the right to make the choices they want to increase their family size. But I would also wonder if they would consider welcoming a child in need of a good, loving home - vs having another of their own? It's just food for thought - certainly not a criticism, but it is something my DH and I think about now that we are done having/birthing our own children.

JeDeeLenae
12-01-2007, 11:57 PM
If she chooses not to have children, that is her right. I would not force her to have a child, nor would I want to. I think there are better options for birth control and hope she learns how to use something effectively so abortion does not continue to be the only way to keep from having children.

I think everyone has valid points. Sometimes the medical community goes too far, but would you tell them not to save your mom, ds, dd, dh because of his/her carbon footprint? Are you going to tell a mom she just doesn't need children since she can't do it on her own? I mean, where do we draw the line? There are single people who leave a larger carbon footprint than an entire family of 5, so while it may be smart to not have a large family, there is definitely room for others to change their ways before we start instituting what size a family can be.

BooBooKisses Momma
12-02-2007, 12:05 AM
I didn't read the article or any of the replies but here's my two cents....... whether a woman decides to have children or not is her business and why she does/doesn't want them is her business. As far as the environment goes, there's alot more ALL of us, including me could be doing to help. A far as God, religious belief, goes, its a personal choice. I don't know what this has to do with abortion but I'm assuming women are having abortions and calling them environmentally friendly, to which I;d have to disagree. My stance is, if you're having sex and don't want kids use protect. if you get pregnant anyway, deal with it. Grow up, learn to parent or think about a alternative that doesn't include death and medical waste.

cakeums
12-02-2007, 01:54 AM
DH was telling me about this article and I thought it was insane. I mean, if you don't want to have children, then fine, that's your right. But to have an abortion to reduce your carbon footprint, coupled with the lack of remorse or any feeling whatsoever? Nutso. Any woman who can go through with an abortion without even batting an eyelash or feeling the slightest twinge of remorse is no better than a sociopath. That degree of a lack of feeling is the scariest thing about that whole article, IMO. (And FTR, I'm pro-choice, but it sounds to me like she's just looking to excuse the fact that she has no conscience. If she DID have a conscience, abortion aside, she wouldn't be traveling the globe with her DH and then claiming to be such an extreme conservationist.)

babybluebird
12-04-2007, 06:40 PM
gosh...so many good points...

my perspective being that she is DEFINITELY trying to cope with her decision to abort and IMHO justify it to herself...

I think she was irresponsible to get pregnant in the first place if she knew she didn't want children and now she's trying to "make up for it"...

Not judging her, just trying to have some insight.

As someone with personal (immeasureably regretful) experience, the enormity of aborting a child is something I feel women go to great lengths to deal with.

Just putting that out there so :hide:

I feel bad for these women because I don't think it really has anything to do with the environment deep down...I could be wrong but that's my :2cents:

KaleidoscopeEyes
12-04-2007, 07:09 PM
I believe in zero population growth. DH and I are only having 2 kids. They basically only replace ourselves when we die. I do care about this planet, it's not that it isn't big enough in size, it's that non renewable resources are being used up and there is massive amounts of pollution. If everyone only had 2 kids eventually the population would thin out and the damage to the planet would be less. I don't think having 6 kids and raising them to be green is the answer. It doesn't mean that they will be green adults or their offspring well. No matter how green someone tries to be, we still leave a negative environmental impact.

lilyfrog_flowers
12-05-2007, 02:35 PM
Wow! Need I say more. What an interesting, sad, odd little story.
I have some thoughts,
#1 we are a zero population growth family, we are 2 we have two. It was our choice, may not be for others. I had exposure to families with many kids and my DH is one of 5 kids, it wasn't what we wanted. IF we are blessed with one more than so be it...
#2 BE HAPPY with your way of life. Being misserable doesn't do anyone any good. If you are doing something just because it is green and you HATE it who wins?
#3 There are so many ways to be green, every little bit helps and we need to do what fits in to our lives. We CD, garden, raise grassfed hogs and beef, have a wood stove etc. It works for us right now, may not in the future (hopefully potty training is in our future!)
#4 I am glad that she terminated her pregnancy, could you imagine two people with her views running around. There are instances when abortion is acceptable in my mind. I am a teacher and see hundreds of kids that are abused in one way or another each and every day, there are not enough people to help abused children in my mind, if there were everyone on this site would be volunteering each and every day.
I saw a show on the girls in Asia that are sold into the sex slave industry because their parents couldn't afford to keep them, I can hardly believe that abortion would not have been a better option than watching your beautiful daugther/s sold into slavery! I do however believe that people who do not ever want children should be sterilized and those that want babies should have to pass a test and get a license :) Also if there are no malities with the fetus the momma should carry it and have it adopted, though I am not sure that I would be able to do so considering the crazies out there!
I count my blessings each and every night.
Knowledge is power!