If your kid is vaccinated...

[JeDeeLenae]

Do you worry about them being around children that aren't vaccinated?

I saw this in another thread, where someone said they'd actually move because they didn't want their vaccinated kid going to school with kids that weren't vaccinated.

So, please, enlighten me. Why do you feel like that?

[MatildasMum]

I don't feel that way so no enlightenment from me. :D

[*Katherine*]

Nope, don't feel like that. IMO that's kind of a silly thing to think.

[masonite]

I guess I don't understand that line of thinking, because if your child IS vax'ed, they shouldn't get the disease, right??


I don't get into vax arguments, we do what we do, you do what you do. The world goes 'round. BUT, I don't see that argument logically for the reasons I stated above.

[saongiri]

I always wondered about that--I've heard too and it seriously makes no f@!#ing sense since presumably the vax'd kid is "protected" ---I'll be watching this thread but I'm afraid it may get ----well I'll just say I hope everyone can be nice

[JeDeeLenae]

I'm just really interested... you vax against a disease so they can't get the disease when exposed to it... so to be scared of them being around the disease only makes sense if they don't think the vax works. Is that what it is? :popcorn:

[darcymichelle]

Yeah I don't understand that.

[amjbmommy]

I guess I don't understand that line of thinking, because if your child IS vax'ed, they shouldn't get the disease, right??

:exactly: ... so then is that person implying that (gasp!!!) vaxes don't work????????? hmmm..... what is there to be afraid of then :headscratch:

[ishyfishie]

I don't recall seeing that thread but this idea always makes me laugh. If you do vaccinate, it stands to reason that you believe the vaccines are effective, no? So why would you be worried about catching a VPD from an unvaccinated child, since you're supposed to be protected from such occurrences by vaccinating. Isn't that WHY people vaccinate?

There are LOADS of much more common things to "catch" that have no vaccine and you're no more likely to catch one of those from an unvaccinated child than you would be from a vaccinated one. What about older generations who were never vaccinated against all the zillion and one things kids are vaccinated for these days? Do you (general you) question adults before you let your children near them? The whole idea of being worried about vaccinated children catching something from unvaccinated kids boggles my mind. Being concerned about having a baby (vaccinated or not) around kids who are in school or daycare, I could possibly justify a worry over catching something. Being worried about an immuno-compromised child being exposed, sure--but in that case, I'd probably be just as concerned about exposing them to recently vaccinated children (given a live vaccine) or any visibly ill child, vaccinated or not.

I'm alternately amused and offended by the idea that my unvaccinated child might be considered some kind of cesspool of disease.

[Fullhouse]

I always wondered about that--I've heard too and it seriously makes no f@!#ing sense since presumably the vax'd kid is "protected" ---I'll be watching this thread but I'm afraid it may get ----well I'll just say I hope everyone can be nice

:thumbsup:

[darcymichelle]

I don't recall seeing that thread but this idea always makes me laugh. If you do vaccinate, it stands to reason that you believe the vaccines are effective, no? So why would you be worried about catching a VPD from an unvaccinated child, since you're supposed to be protected from such occurrences by vaccinating. Isn't that WHY people vaccinate?

There are LOADS of much more common things to "catch" that have no vaccine and you're no more likely to catch one of those from an unvaccinated child than you would be from a vaccinated one. What about older generations who were never vaccinated against all the zillion and one things kids are vaccinated for these days? Do you (general you) question adults before you let your children near them? The whole idea of being worried about vaccinated children catching something from unvaccinated kids boggles my mind. Being concerned about having a baby (vaccinated or not) around kids who are in school or daycare, I could possibly justify a worry over catching something. Being worried about an immuno-compromised child being exposed, sure--but in that case, I'd probably be just as concerned about exposing them to recently vaccinated children (given a live vaccine) or any visibly ill child, vaccinated or not.

I'm alternately amused and offended by the idea that my unvaccinated child might be considered some kind of cesspool of disease.
Exactly mama. As I said in the other thread...to me it was like a slap in the face.

[junejay4life]

I don't recall seeing that thread but this idea always makes me laugh. If you do vaccinate, it stands to reason that you believe the vaccines are effective, no? So why would you be worried about catching a VPD from an unvaccinated child, since you're supposed to be protected from such occurrences by vaccinating. Isn't that WHY people vaccinate?

There are LOADS of much more common things to "catch" that have no vaccine and you're no more likely to catch one of those from an unvaccinated child than you would be from a vaccinated one. What about older generations who were never vaccinated against all the zillion and one things kids are vaccinated for these days? Do you (general you) question adults before you let your children near them? The whole idea of being worried about vaccinated children catching something from unvaccinated kids boggles my mind. Being concerned about having a baby (vaccinated or not) around kids who are in school or daycare, I could possibly justify a worry over catching something. Being worried about an immuno-compromised child being exposed, sure--but in that case, I'd probably be just as concerned about exposing them to recently vaccinated children (given a live vaccine) or any visibly ill child, vaccinated or not.

I'm alternately amused and offended by the idea that my unvaccinated child might be considered some kind of cesspool of disease.

:yeahthat:

[justkc]

It would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind that.

[saongiri]

the other thing I wonder is if people actually know what diseases they are being vax against and how they are transmitted--I mean hello---hep B is not caught by playing ball--ykwim?

[CanAmCircus]

Why would I be worried?? I believe in the vaccine, or I would not get them. If my child was vaccinated I would not worry about them catching anything from a non vaxed kids, infact, If my child wasnt vaccinated I wouldnt worry about them being around a non vaxed kid this day in age either... now if there was an outbreak and my child was non vaxed, I may limit his access to public places, but we do that when there is an outbreak of the flu or something so its not against a non vaxed kids.

[isabelsmom]

i have definitely heard of people thinking like this but um,no, i don't get it. nak

[crittercrazy3]

that would be bad news for me, since dd was fully vaxed, ds1 partially vaxed and ds2 is not vaxed. i'd have 3 bunkers for them hehehehehe.

[maree8602]

I guess I don't understand that line of thinking, because if your child IS vax'ed, they shouldn't get the disease, right??


No, that they're LESS LIKELY to get the disease.

[maree8602]

Do you worry about them being around children that aren't vaccinated?

I saw this in another thread, where someone said they'd actually move because they didn't want their vaccinated kid going to school with kids that weren't vaccinated.

So, please, enlighten me. Why do you feel like that?

Forgot to answer the question, my boys don't have all their vaxes, they've only had a couple and even if they were fully vaxed, I wouldn't have a problem with them being around children who are vaccinated.

[Kanga]

I think they generally use the reasoning that vaxes aren't 100% effective so there's still the possibility that their dc may contract something. But the truth is very very few adults are up to date on their shots, especially if they don't work in the medical field yet they don't think twice about those people or the elderly with even fewer vaxes and weaker immune systems. I actually feel sorry for those peope, I'd hate to be that germophobic and paranoid all the time.

[Sweet_Fantasy_Fox]

I'm just really interested... you vax against a disease so they can't get the disease when exposed to it... so to be scared of them being around the disease only makes sense if they don't think the vax works. Is that what it is? :popcorn:

vacinnations don't prevent a disease, as pp said it makes it less likely to be caught:thumbsup:
my ds1 is fully vaxed, dd needs to reget most due to her chemotherapy last year and ds2 has had 1 set and didnt get them all neither, we pick and choose which we want. now to answe the question, before i got into really posting here on ds i had never in my life heard of anyone who didn't vaccinate. the first time i ehard of it was from a close friend of mine, i don't know how it came up but she told me she didn't vax her kids, her two oldest got a few and both show signs of autism so she stopped vaxing.
anyway i admit it freaked me out to hear of a child not getting vaxed, mainly because i have never heard of that, i assumed everyone did it. As i started reading more and more about why some families don't vax, things started getting more clear, i don't mind my kids around anyone, vaxed or not as long as they aren't contagious with anything, and thats mainly because of my dd's scare last year i still hover her health and all.
vacines do not prevent diseases but they help to make the child less likely to become sick. for us we choose to vacinate although my kids do not get any i decide not to let them have.:thumbsup:

[MamaToBe84]

I've never understood that logic either...

personally, my child wont be vaccinated, and while i plan to do daycare, I want to make sure im made aware when a vaccinated child recieves a vaccine in order to isolate or at least watch for the disease in my child, JUST in case.

[Sweet_Fantasy_Fox]

I've never understood that logic either...

personally, my child wont be vaccinated, and while i plan to do daycare, I want to make sure im made aware when a vaccinated child recieves a vaccine in order to isolate or at least watch for the disease in my child, JUST in case.

your right artie as some vaxes shed off the child when theyre given, i didn't know about this neither and took ds1 to get his for school and was pg with nathan and the dr told me AFTER danny got them that i shouldnt have been around him when they were given neither should danae since her immunity had been gone for so long, because the live ones can harm the fetus..wth, luckily nothing happen BUT it could have and they should let people be aware of that. especially kids who dont get vax, they can get somethign form the kids who just got vaxed, its confusing to me still but should be up and posted on places so people are aware:headscratch:

[babycakesknits]

No, I don't care.

[MamaToBe84]

your right artie as some vaxes shed off the child when theyre given, i didn't know about this neither and took ds1 to get his for school and was pg with nathan and the dr told me AFTER danny got them that i shouldnt have been around him when they were given neither should danae since her immunity had been gone for so long, because the live ones can harm the fetus..wth, luckily nothing happen BUT it could have and they should let people be aware of that. especially kids who dont get vax, they can get somethign form the kids who just got vaxed, its confusing to me still but should be up and posted on places so people are aware:headscratch:

exactly... its kind of scary, i mean i've never had chicken pox, but im allergic to the ingredients in the vaccine (MSG, since it preserves live viruses)... so im at risk of vaccinated kids, AND potentially exposed kids, lol! I have to admit, im more afraid of the vaccine than the actual chicken pox!

[JeDeeLenae]

but how much less likely are they to get the disease by being vaxed? You'd have to believe that there is a significantly lowered chance to make the vax more appealing, right?

[Sweet_Fantasy_Fox]

exactly... its kind of scary, i mean i've never had chicken pox, but im allergic to the ingredients in the vaccine (MSG, since it preserves live viruses)... so im at risk of vaccinated kids, AND potentially exposed kids, lol! I have to admit, im more afraid of the vaccine than the actual chicken pox!

:hugs:

[House of Blue]

Herd immunity, herd protection, community immunity - But, Community immunity can be achieved when the majority of the population is immune so one or 2 kids at a play group won't make much of a difference anyway.... Still, a large reservoir of unvaccinated persons could contribute to outbreaks that might involve vaccinated individuals. I could also see being nervous as a pregnant woman spending time around a population of unvaccinated persons. Vaccines also have something called a Community immunity threshold. This means that a certain amount of the population has to be vaccinated in order for the vaccine to be effective. Here is an example of a low community immunity threshold contributing to an outbreak....

In 2003 a measles outbreak occurred in the Republic of the Marshall Islands (pop. 56,000), where immunization rates were below 75%—less than the community immunity threshold for measles. An infected tourist from Japan started an epidemic that resulted in 703 cases of measles, 56 hospitalizations and three deaths. (3) Infection occurred in all age groups and in both immunized (vaccine failures) and unimmunized people. However, most cases occurred in infants below the age when vaccine is given and in older individuals who were not immunized.

In contrast, there were two separate introductions of measles into Mexico (pop. over 100 million) in 2003 but only 41 cases occurred, mostly among unimmunized infants. Measles immunization rates in Mexico are over 95%.

[JeDeeLenae]

Your quote is confusing as it does not contain important information.

There were 703 cases, and 3 deaths in the first area. .004% of the cases resulted in death. And, were the deaths due to not being immunized? Or immunization failure?

The other said 41 cases, and no deaths reported? Or just not included in the info given?

[Kismet]

we vaccinated Brennan and selectively vaccinate Quinlan. No I am not in the list bit scared... that's ridiculous. I agree with a previous poster, I vaccinate thinking that for the most part my child should be protected from the illness, I have lots of non-vaccinated friends, not scared AT all. :)

[mOmof3]

Herd immunity, herd protection, community immunity - But, Community immunity can be achieved when the majority of the population is immune so one or 2 kids at a play group won't make much of a difference anyway.... Still, a large reservoir of unvaccinated persons could contribute to outbreaks that might involve vaccinated individuals. I could also see being nervous as a pregnant woman spending time around a population of unvaccinated persons. Vaccines also have something called a Community immunity threshold. This means that a certain amount of the population has to be vaccinated in order for the vaccine to be effective. Here is an example of a low community immunity threshold contributing to an outbreak....

After doing TONS of research the only thing I have found about "herd immunity" is that it is a MYTH!!!

[House of Blue]

Your quote is confusing as it does not contain important information.

There were 703 cases, and 3 deaths in the first area. .004% of the cases resulted in death. And, were the deaths due to not being immunized? Or immunization failure?

The other said 41 cases, and no deaths reported? Or just not included in the info given?

I didn't intend to sway opinion or debate the subject... I just wanted you to understand where someone who does decide to vaccinate may be coming from. They vaccinated banking on the hope that the community they live in will achieve the community immunity threshold. If you want to more about community immunity or CI threshold for different vaccination there is a whole lot of info out there. It's really an interesting concept to read about.

[House of Blue]

After doing TONS of research the only thing I have found about "herd immunity" is that it is a MYTH!!!

It may be a myth in your peosonal opinion. But there are plenty of people out there who firmly believe in it. They have enough faith in it to aceept the risk that comes with vaccination.

[Paige]

:exactly: ... so then is that person implying that (gasp!!!) vaxes don't work????????? hmmm..... what is there to be afraid of then :headscratch:

I trust vaccines to be, across the board, about 90% effective (some more so, some less). I trust the fact that widespread vaccination prevents most outbreaks to take care of another 8% or 9%. Only in a situation where a very large number of people decided to stop vaccinating, therefore making the diseases more prevalent and my child more likely to come in contact with them, would I be slightly nervous. I wouldn't be angry, because I do believe it's every family's choice and I understand why many people interpret the data differently than I do. So, no hard feelings from me!

[mOmof3]

One of those potential problems is that outbreaks (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/outbreaks_in_highly_vaccinated.htm) have occurred in highly vaccinated populations, including those documented to be 100% vaccinated.

If the "herd" cannot be protected with 100% vaccination rates, maybe there is something wrong with the theory.

Another possible problem is that vaccines often do not prevent transmission, instead merely preventing full-blown cases of disease (i.e., causing mild or subclinical cases (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/mild_or_subclinical_disease.htm)). In fact, circulating virus is known to boost the immunity (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/natural_boosting_of_vaccine.htm) of the vaccinated (and perhaps even those naturally (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/June_7_02/Scandal_19.htm) immune (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/June_7_02/Scandal_19.htm)), thereby prolonging the apparent effectiveness of the vaccine (and maybe even natural immunity). In the absence of circulating disease (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/in_the_absence_of_natural_boost.htm), vaccine-induced immunity is more likely to wane, and boosters will be required. In any event, it is hard to understand how something which does not necessarily prevent transmission (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/subclinical_transmission.htm) can result in immunity for the "herd".

Is the notion of "herd immunity" scientifically valid?
If circulation of disease cannot always be prevented by vaccination, and instead merely drives it underground in the guise of mild or subclinical cases, can "herd immunity" be counted on to work?
Is one of the reasons outbreaks have occurred in highly vaccinated populations because vaccines are not as effective as we have been led to believe? Are the methods currently used to measure/determine immunity inadequate or flawed?
How valid is the justification for mandating vaccination, given what appears to be some evidence against the theory used to support that policy?

HERD IMMUNITY IS WHAT THE CDC AND FDA LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE SO YOU WILL PUT TONS OF $$ INTO THEIR POCKETS...
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/July_5_02/Scandal23.htm

[House of Blue]

One of those potential problems is that outbreaks (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/outbreaks_in_highly_vaccinated.htm) have occurred in highly vaccinated populations, including those documented to be 100% vaccinated.

If the "herd" cannot be protected with 100% vaccination rates, maybe there is something wrong with the theory.

Another possible problem is that vaccines often do not prevent transmission, instead merely preventing full-blown cases of disease (i.e., causing mild or subclinical cases (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/mild_or_subclinical_disease.htm)). In fact, circulating virus is known to boost the immunity (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/natural_boosting_of_vaccine.htm) of the vaccinated (and perhaps even those naturally (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/June_7_02/Scandal_19.htm) immune (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/June_7_02/Scandal_19.htm)), thereby prolonging the apparent effectiveness of the vaccine (and maybe even natural immunity). In the absence of circulating disease (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/in_the_absence_of_natural_boost.htm), vaccine-induced immunity is more likely to wane, and boosters will be required. In any event, it is hard to understand how something which does not necessarily prevent transmission (http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july_5_02/subclinical_transmission.htm) can result in immunity for the "herd".

Is the notion of "herd immunity" scientifically valid?
If circulation of disease cannot always be prevented by vaccination, and instead merely drives it underground in the guise of mild or subclinical cases, can "herd immunity" be counted on to work?
Is one of the reasons outbreaks have occurred in highly vaccinated populations because vaccines are not as effective as we have been led to believe? Are the methods currently used to measure/determine immunity inadequate or flawed?
How valid is the justification for mandating vaccination, given what appears to be some evidence against the theory used to support that policy?

HERD IMMUNITY IS WHAT THE CDC AND FDA LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE SO YOU WILL PUT TONS OF $$ INTO THEIR POCKETS...
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/July_5_02/Scandal23.htm

But again, this isn't about what you believe.... The OP asked a specific question about why someone who vaccinated would not want to be around an unvaccinated person (or population). The majority of people who do vaccinate firmly believe in herd immunity. ETA... And heard immunity could be a reason for not wanting to be around a person or population of unvaccinated persons.

[mOmof3]

Ok, I am so freaking sorry I hijacked the thread and went off topic...There are TONS of posts off topic...

To OP I have NO freaking clue why some parents say and do what they do...

[mOmof3]

Also herd immunity is ALSO a freaking "theory" it has not EVER been proven..

[JackieLyn]

Ok, I am so freaking sorry I hijacked the thread and went off topic...There are TONS of posts off topic...

To OP I have NO freaking clue why some parents say and do what they do...

:hugs: deep breath! i can tell you're passionate about this! :goodvibes:

[LuAnn]

nope, we vax and a few of the people I know here IRL dont; and I still take my kids near them

[Jenn]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/theferreros2004/Misc/buckleup.gif

[brighteyes mom]

I guess I don't understand that line of thinking, because if your child IS vax'ed, they shouldn't get the disease, right??
YUP! If your vaxing your lo then your stating that your trusting this vax to protect your child and therefore there should be no reason to be afraid of a non vaxed kid.

Also herd immunity is ALSO a freaking "theory" it has not EVER been proven..
Hey, I'm on your side mama.:goodvibes:

[JeDeeLenae]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/theferreros2004/Misc/buckleup.gif
no need for it to get ugly... I think it's gone on pretty peacefully for the most part.

[L J]

I actually had someone tell me the other day (a co-worker) "I would never let my kids near your son since he isn't vaxed!" :headscratch:

I was kind of snarky in my response, and said something along the lines of not wanting to expose my child to people of their breeding anyway :blush: and then remembered previous online discussions about this and flat out asked her if she was worried that the vaxes didn't work, since she was so worried about her kids "catching something". She stammered for a minute, but couldn't reply.

Now I wish I hadn't been such a jerk, I would like to know what her (faulty) logic was.

[JeDeeLenae]

I actually had someone tell me the other day (a co-worker) "I would never let my kids near your son since he isn't vaxed!" :headscratch:

I was kind of snarky in my response, and said something along the lines of not wanting to expose my child to people of their breeding anyway :blush: and then remembered previous online discussions about this and flat out asked her if she was worried that the vaxes didn't work, since she was so worried about her kids "catching something". She stammered for a minute, but couldn't reply.

Now I wish I hadn't been such a jerk, I would like to know what her (faulty) logic was.
It's hard to always have to take the high road when you want to shove a foot up someone's butt.

[L J]

It's hard to always have to take the high road when you want to shove a foot up someone's butt.

:laugh: No kidding. I strongly dislike this chick anyway (she is rumored to steal tips) so for once I just couldn't bite my tongue.

*Done thread-jacking* :D

[ClothDiaperingMama]

Do you worry about them being around children that aren't vaccinated?

I saw this in another thread, where someone said they'd actually move because they didn't want their vaccinated kid going to school with kids that weren't vaccinated.

So, please, enlighten me. Why do you feel like that?


That sounds weird to me as the vaccinated kids would be protected.:headscratch: So to answer your question.. I have no worries about my vaxed kids being around non vaxed kids.

I do worry about ds who isn't vaxed being around other kids who aren't vaxed though as they could catch the diseases that we don't want them to get. DS has severe food allergies so some shots are totally off limits because of that. {medical reason versus personal reasons}.

[iris0110]

I never got it either. I mean if you believe the vaxes work then it shouldn't be a problem. And honestly where did they get the theory that vaccinated kids didnt' have germs? Vaccinated kids can carry the diseases they are vaxed against, so a child is at as much risk of a disease from any child they meet (assumably, I mean you have no way of knowing that child's exposure to diseases). Obviously if there is a bug going around that you don't want your child to get you keep them home, but to be so germaphobic that you can't let your children be around unvaxed people is a sad way to live. Especially considering the people who say it usually aren't up to date on their own vaxes and were never vaxed for even half the things they are worried about their children being exposed to by unvaxed kids. I figure my kids are safer with unvaxed kids. Assuming the parents use any kind of good judgement at all they won't have their kids out and about when they are sick so my kids won't be at risk from them. A vaxed child who is carrying a disease but not showing symptoms could pass it to mine (though to be honest most cases of most diseases are asymptomatic or appear as something else in the early contagious stages). Not to mention all of those germy adutls and elderly folk who want to kiss all over them. But I am also not a germaphobe and I want my children to get the childhood diseases naturally and build natural immunity.

Funny enough my SIL is a nurse. She doesn't want her kids hanging out with mine cause we don't vax (she has never been able to explain why) but if she wants something (like attention) suddenly my kids' vax status isn't an issue anymore. She also told me that Kearnan wouldn't be able to visit me when I delivered Tharen because it was in the middle of flu season and he wasn't vaccinated (seriously it is hospital policy and she knows cause she works on that floor) but they never once asked about it. How many adults do they think are on the ward without a flu vax? They dont' even consider them.

[luvsviola]

Not really because you have no way of knowing who is and who isn't vaxed without asking.

[House of Blue]

One last time then I'm gunna have to bow out of repeating myself over and over :laugh: People who vaccinate trust in the "myth" of herd immunity, it is their right to believe in that (just as it is equally someones right to believe in the "myth" of natural immunity). Therefor they believe the more unvaccinated people they expose themselves or their child to could possibly put them at an elevated risk. People who vaccinate do so hoping that the majority will do the same to optimize the effectiveness of the vaccine.

OP - This is a matter of respecting what other people believe. If they believe an unvaccinated person puts them or their child at risk, that's their right. Vaccinations are a serious issue no matter which way you swing. You just can't minimize someones feelings about something so serious just because you don't believe the information they have chosen to accept. It's sad that feelings have to get hurt when someone says they don't want their child around your child. But again, these are some serious issues that take precedence over hurt feelings.

[JAMmama]

I think the only place they could move to would be a bubble, you are always going to be surrounded by people that vaccinate!

[Julie K]

"natural immunity" is a myth? I haven't heard that one before...


This kind of thinking (that parents of vaxed kids don't want their kids around unvaxed kids) scares me. My dd is partially vaxed and this baby will likely not be vaxed. I worry about ignorant parents (who do NO research and have no facts) ostracizing my children. I don't plan on telling anyone about their vaccine status, its none of their business, but I live in a small town and people still manage to find things out.

In the two bigger outbreaks of the measles and whooping cough...something like 80% of those who got it were VAXED. Maybe I should be more worried about my kids being around vaxed kids?

Really why should it matter if your kid is vaxed or not - most of these diseases that vaxes are intended to prevent have obvious symptoms, or aren't transmitted by contact. You can SEE the measles, you can HEAR the whooping cough...Hep B is transmitted through bodily fluids...

[TieNappyQueen]

i had to laugh when I saw this.
WE don't vax and we used to hang out with people from dh's work, not our crowd but kind of a politcal thing. They vaxed to the nines and ANYTIME one of there kids got a cold or something they would call us and ask if e had had it or anything else, you know, becuase we don't vax him. hmmm honey e NEVER gets sick, even when he is exposed to your sickly children. ( NOT saying vaxed kids are sickly THESE kids are but that is a WHOLE other thread)
I have vax people all the time get on to me how I am endangering there child :headscratch: um I thought YOURS with the golden elxer was safe!?

AS far as how I feel with him around vaxed kids, i don't let myself worry about it, I don't get vaxes for alot of reasons and one of them is I trust his ability to fight off 'diseases' and I also trust my ability to care for him if he were to come down with something and if worse came to worse I would be able to take advandage of modern haelthcare that would be in place of complications. That is why is it modern. I repect other decisions, if they are well researched and made, all I ask is that I get that in return, which dosesn't happen as often as I give it sadly.

[Diaper'nDiva]

Honestly, no one even knows IRL that my kids aren't vaxed except my husband and myself. We HAVE to keep it to ourselves because I highly doubt DH would be allowed to see his step children if we let 'The Beast'(r) know... she's the kind of person that believes Doctors are Gods and whatever they say is right. It's no one's business but our own... I will not have my children ostracized because of someone's ignorance on vaccines. They also will be homeschooled so not an issue there either. :)

I understand the 'herd mentality' and obviously I disagree with it... Especially since MOST adults are not up to date on their vaccines and you have no idea whom is and isn't... They are just as much a "danger" as unvaxed children so why should my children be thrown to the wolves when most of the wolves are just as much a "danger" as they are? No one's business but our's :)

[mommypatton521]

no way that's why my kid was vaxed what's the point of vaxing if i'm worried about non vax'ed kiddos making my kid sick? doesn't make much sense to me lol

[xois]

i don't care...to each their own

time will tell if it's better to vac or not...for now, I'm going on the best science there is and we are selective vaxing...

what others do is their business

[teenbean31]

Very interesting...I have enjoyed reading this...I have been on the fence about vaxing...so for me I really enjoyed reading this thread. I am so glad that it hasn't gotten ugly either.

For me it has been hard to find a doc that I like & trust. We live in a small town in PA & not many docs to choose from which was completely different in how I grew up in Baltimore. I have already changed pediatricians twice.

I appreciate the information I get here. I am not saying I "will or will not vax" at this point I just want a pediatrician that will have some conversation with me about the subject & it seems they just want to say "b/c that is what you are supposed to do VAX." I am an intelligent women with concerns that want my questions answered.

Thanks for the thread! :)

[JeDeeLenae]

One last time then I'm gunna have to bow out of repeating myself over and over :laugh: People who vaccinate trust in the "myth" of herd immunity, it is their right to believe in that (just as it is equally someones right to believe in the "myth" of natural immunity). Therefor they believe the more unvaccinated people they expose themselves or their child to could possibly put them at an elevated risk. People who vaccinate do so hoping that the majority will do the same to optimize the effectiveness of the vaccine.

OP - This is a matter of respecting what other people believe. If they believe an unvaccinated person puts them or their child at risk, that's their right. Vaccinations are a serious issue no matter which way you swing. You just can't minimize someones feelings about something so serious just because you don't believe the information they have chosen to accept. It's sad that feelings have to get hurt when someone says they don't want their child around your child. But again, these are some serious issues that take precedence over hurt feelings.
First of all, I have not minimized anybody's feelings. I ASKED a question, under the assumption that people vaccinate thinking their kid will now NOT get a disease if they come into contact with someone with it.

Second of all, if they have the right to think my child is a diseased cess pool, I have the right to believe they are pretty darn ignorant about vax and non vax.

That is all.

[House of Blue]

First of all, I have not minimized anybody's feelings. I ASKED a question, under the assumption that people vaccinate thinking their kid will now NOT get a disease if they come into contact with someone with it.

Second of all, if they have the right to think my child is a diseased cess pool, I have the right to believe they are pretty darn ignorant about vax and non vax.

That is all.

Running in circles here again, I must enjoy the high of being dizzy :laugh: Nobody said your child was a diseased cess pool. The only thing you can do is accept people have come to a different conclusion than you and work at removing the emotional aspect of this. If they feel the safest thing to do is to minimize their child's exposure to unvaxinated individuals, then it's their child, their right. Just as it's your right to believe they are ignorant.

[Julie K]

Running in circles here again, I must enjoy the high of being dizzy :laugh: Nobody said your child was a diseased cess pool. The only thing you can do is accept people have come to a different conclusion than you and work at removing the emotional aspect of this. If they feel the safest thing to do is to minimize their child's exposure to unvaxinated individuals, then it's their child, their right. Just as it's your right to believe they are ignorant.

She never said it wasn't their right - she was asking why.

[JeDeeLenae]

Running in circles here again, I must enjoy the high of being dizzy :laugh: Nobody said your child was a diseased cess pool. The only thing you can do is accept people have come to a different conclusion than you and work at removing the emotional aspect of this. If they feel the safest thing to do is to minimize their child's exposure to unvaxinated individuals, then it's their child, their right. Just as it's your right to believe they are ignorant.
:goodvibes: I'm sorry your getting dizzy, but it seems like you're running around in self imposed circles. :laugh:

[myajdw]

:goodvibes: I'm sorry your getting dizzy, but it seems like you're running around in self imposed circles. :laugh:

:giggle: I totally :wub: you!!!!

As for your question, I think it's nuts that they worry about it. Thankfully so far I haven't come across that and anyone who does happen to find out that Brighton isn't vaxed and that the boys won't be any longer just want to know why. When I explain it they completely understand :).

[House of Blue]

She never said it wasn't their right - she was asking why.

Good grief woman! You really give my fingers a run for their money :laugh: Her cess pool post contained a certain "tone" to it. We could go back and fourth on the tit-for tat of her "exact" words and the topic of the finer points of word selection in debate... But I was posting in reference to a paticular post. And yes I agree, the way things are worded you can say "she never said that" but what was implied was a little bit different.

Are we dizzy yet? :giggle: And I fully expected to frequently come head on with a brick wall on this particular subject on this particular board, sucker for punishment perhaps? Break out the whips and chais apparently I'm into S&M ROFL!

[JeDeeLenae]

Good grief woman! You really give my fingers a run for their money :laugh: Her cess pool post contained a certain "tone" to it. We could go back and fourth on the tit-for tat of her "exact" words and the topic of the finer points of word selection in debate... But I was posting in reference to a paticular post. And yes I agree, the way things are worded you can say "she never said that" but what was implied was a little bit different.

Are we dizzy yet? :giggle: And I fully expected to frequently come head on with a brick wall on this particular subject on this particular board, sucker for punishment perhaps? Break out the whips and chais apparently I'm into S&M ROFL!
I don't imply anything when I write. My words and feelings can be read, word for word. No need to read between the lines. :thumbsup:

[House of Blue]

I don't imply anything when I write. My words and feelings can be read, word for word. No need to read between the lines. :thumbsup:

But injecting the fabricated notion that someone who vaccinates called your child a diseased cess pool....

[Kaden's mom]

I think all parents are just concerned and want the best for their little ones. We get emotional when we think that their well-beings are at stake. I think that the fear comes from not fully understanding vaccines which is a challenging because there is a lot of conflicting info out there. I don't claim to understand them fully.

That being said. I don't worry about my DS being around children that are not vaccinated because he is vaccinated. I feel good about our personal decision to vaccinate him and plan to vaccinate our next little one too. We're taking him in a couple weeks to South Africa for the second time. I don't live in fear of what I can't control just take the precautions that I think are best for my little guy. My DH and I have up to date vaccines as well:)

[JeDeeLenae]

But injecting the fabricated notion that someone who vaccinates called your child a diseased cess pool....
someone has said that, thank you very much, so it's not fabricated... it's my opinion. :goodvibes:

[JeDeeLenae]

someone has said that, thank you very much, so it's not fabricated... it's my opinion. :goodvibes:
maybe not in this thread, but it has happened. So, as far as minimizing someone's feelings, that is how I feel.

[katzmark06]

I am goign to get shirts for us that say

"stay back... we dont vax" ;)

[JeDeeLenae]

I am goign to get shirts for us that say

"stay back... we dont vax" ;)
lol, now that's cute... they can wear it to the doctors office and won't have to fight over toys.

[TieNappyQueen]

lol, now that's cute... they can wear it to the doctors office and won't have to fight over toys.

:giggle: :thumbsup: :giggle:
I am in!

[JeDeeLenae]

:giggle: :thumbsup: :giggle:
I am in!
is that a co-op request. :giggle:

[mcpforever]

One last time then I'm gunna have to bow out of repeating myself over and over :laugh: People who vaccinate trust in the "myth" of herd immunity, it is their right to believe in that (just as it is equally someones right to believe in the "myth" of natural immunity). Therefor they believe the more unvaccinated people they expose themselves or their child to could possibly put them at an elevated risk. People who vaccinate do so hoping that the majority will do the same to optimize the effectiveness of the vaccine.

Very nicely said. I understand your point and it is not about anyone here believing one way or the other. It's just about the way people of this mindset believe.
Re: Natural immunity. I know of several people who got milder cases of chicken pox (no vaxes out at the time) that ended up with ANOTHER case of it later. So just getting a disease doesn't necessarily guarantee natural immunity.

Another thought: There are a lot of people/parents that feel threatened by anyone who acts or thinks differently than they do. These are the same parents who want their kids to go to the "right school," have the "right friends," etc. Vaxing fits right in with their criteria for sameness and "rightness."

Also, I think some people get the idea into their head that vaxing=a hygenic way of life and that people who don't vax either:
a) just don't care enough to take care of their kids and would send them to school sick with anything and everything (not just the vax diseases) to let them spread around
or
b) are too into being "natural" and include poor hygeine (not bathing or using "standard" cleaning products) as part of their assumed stereotyping

I feel badly for those who feel the need to have everything and everyone antiseptic and sterilized. Their world is so much smaller. :cry:

[Infinity]

Still reading responces but this is my answer to the OP.

A vaccinated child is ok as long as there’s no major out break. So say 5 kids all at once have CP or Whooping cough and they’re all in the same place I’m not going to deliberately take my kids their. THAT kind of exposure could cause them to get a mild case. Kind of how some people have CP 2, 3 or even 5 times instead of just once. My cousin had it 3 times and a friend had it twice and then had a form that was only in her mouth.
I DO know of an entire small town (near me) that had a major Whooping Cough epidemic because no one vaxed. It was quarantined. Yes children where hospitalized, had awful side effects and I believe a few old people died from complications. I would not have taken my DC there or visited anyone from there!

As for going to school, activities or living in a community with non vaxers it’s silly IMHO to think your DC could ‘catch’ something from them. Perhaps that’s because I live in an area were it’s about 50/50 vaxers and non vaxers? So I’ve seen a lot first hand.

[moonphishers]

To answer the OP - I don't understand it at all. Never really have. I used to vax in discriminately and even then it made no sense to me when I'd hear people say that.

Oh and give me info on this new 'co-op' when details come out :giggle: ;)

[kattayanna_mom]

The logic is flawed and they'd be doing a whole lot of moving around.:lostit:

[ThatLinGirl]

A vaccinated child is ok as long as there’s no major out break.

But that's just not true.. for example, per the CDC, the DTaP provides only about 70% effectiveness against Pertussis. That's not so hot, especially considering a child vaxed fully on time won't receive that until about 6 months and 2 weeks. By that point in time, it would be a miserable disease, but a child with a healthy immune system is nearly certainly going to make it through it without any long term issues or problems, unlike one with a challenged immune system or a newborn, etc.

They're not perfect, they're just not. Take that 70% or don't take it, but don't think it is a sure thing. Once you accept that, its all downhill to the dark side from there. :giggle:

FWIW, my kid has allergies that mean we can not give some shots. Others we have chose not to give. A few we have.

[MamaF]

I personally wouldn't be worried, but i've heard that a vaxed child can still become a carrier and bring it home to the parents. Many of the diseases can be deadly or detrimental to the fetus of a pregnant woman and the vaxes have worn off by then so most pregnant women aren't immune anymore.

(at least my friend's Dr. told her that even though her son was vaxed for Chicken pox he could still carry it home to her....she never had the vax or the chicken pox...while she was pregnant)

I don't know if that is true...but that may be a reason?:headscratch:

[handrew123]

I don't understand either.
We vaccinate, and it freaks me out. I was vaccinated and my DH was vaccinated, we never got sick. But you hear the debate about side effects from mercury. I know everyone wants you to believe that there's nothing to be afraid of. Off subject. Anyway, I think that freaks me out much more than another kid not being vaccinated. As I see it, your taking a chance either way.

[stacey]

thats just dumb! i never heard/thought that. mine are vaxxed. nak

[iris0110]

I personally wouldn't be worried, but i've heard that a vaxed child can still become a carrier and bring it home to the parents. Many of the diseases can be deadly or detrimental to the fetus of a pregnant woman and the vaxes have worn off by then so most pregnant women aren't immune anymore.

(at least my friend's Dr. told her that even though her son was vaxed for Chicken pox he could still carry it home to her....she never had the vax or the chicken pox...while she was pregnant)

I don't know if that is true...but that may be a reason?:headscratch:

It's absolutely true that a vaccinated child can carry a disease without actually getting it (As can anyone really, jsut because you come in contact with a disease does not mean you will develop symptoms but you can carry it and give it to others). But that is what makes the argument so rediculous. They are just as likely to come in contact with the germs from their vaccinated peers as from their unvaccinated peers. In fact they are probably less likely to get it from unvaccinated because if they show symptoms of a certain illness their parents will keep them home, where the vaccinated child's parents will probably be told that it is safe for their child to go out because they can't possibly have (enter disease name here) because they were vaccinated for it. I had pertusis as a teen, I can't imagine how many people I spread it to because the first Dr I saw said it was a noncontagious form of Bronchitis and I was safe to go out, the next said it was asthma (again safe to go out), it wasn't till the third that I finally got the correct diagnosis. They all were sure it wasn't pertusis because my vaccines were up to date. How many children have had measels but have been diagnosed with Roseola because the Dr doesn't want to admit that the vax didn't take? Not to mention the danger of live virus vaccine shedding. And of course adults who are not vaxed or no where near up to date. It's just silly. If you want so baddly to keep your child safe from germs better never let them out of the house or let anyone in to visit. Because they are at just as much risk from their vaccinated buddy as from the non-vaccinated boy down the street. And of course the lady at the check out stand who hasn't been vaxed since she was 12, and the man at the bank, and the guy in your dh's office........

[Tiffer23]

I'm much more worried about having my unvaxed kid around the 4 month old I watch when he's been recently vaccinated with Rotavirus. UGH. Darn live vaccines.

I ditto all the others that have said it doesn't even make sense to vaxers to be afraid of non-vaxed kids. :headscratch:

[nannersmama]

not sure why vaxing parents would worry..I mean that is what vaxes are for. . if they do catch something from the unvaxed child it is the unvaxed child who will suffer the most..because the vaxed child will get no more than a lessened illness because of their vax.

Course I have known a few kids vaxed with live flu and rotovirus and CP vaxes that have then passed this crap on to other children..either to young to vax for the illness or whose parents have chosen not to vax.

That hardly seems right to me.

[Infinity]

But that's just not true.. for example, per the CDC, the DTaP provides only about 70% effectiveness against Pertussis. That's not so hot, especially considering a child vaxed fully on time won't receive that until about 6 months and 2 weeks. By that point in time, it would be a miserable disease, but a child with a healthy immune system is nearly certainly going to make it through it without any long term issues or problems, unlike one with a challenged immune system or a newborn, etc.

They're not perfect, they're just not. Take that 70% or don't take it, but don't think it is a sure thing. Once you accept that, its all downhill to the dark side from there. :giggle:

FWIW, my kid has allergies that mean we can not give some shots. Others we have chose not to give. A few we have.

I’m sorry I thought the OP was asking for opinions from people who vax on why they might think this way. If she only wanted cold hard facts I’d of worded my post differently and posted supporting links.

I am entitled to my believes!! IMHO 70% is well 70 times better than 0%! I also believe that even though I give vax my DC have healthy immune systems.

I did NOT say vaxs where perfect if you read my whole post you’d of seen that I acknowledge that they are not. They help boost natural immunity. Hence calling them booster shots.

[Tiffer23]

They help boost natural immunity. Hence calling them booster shots.

Not natural immunity, vaccine-induced "immunity." Natural immunity doesn't need boosters. Once immune, generally you stay immune if you catch something naturally. Vaccine immunity wears off, and you need boosters. Just saying. :)

[Kanga]

Not natural immunity, vaccine-induced "immunity." Natural immunity doesn't need boosters. Once immune, generally you stay immune if you catch something naturally. Vaccine immunity wears off, and you need boosters. Just saying.

:yeahthat: only natural immunity needs a boost every now and again too. Just not booster shots. Being exposed to a disease you are already naturally immune to, will help boost your antibodies and immune system to that particular disease.

IMHO 70% is well 70 times better than 0%! I also believe that even though I give vax my DC have healthy immune systems

Just because one doesn't vax, doesn't mean their immunity is 0. Like anyone needed another one, but that is another reason to breastfeed.

[ThatLinGirl]

I’m sorry I thought the OP was asking for opinions from people who vax on why they might think this way. If she only wanted cold hard facts I’d of worded my post differently and posted supporting links.

I wasn't attacking your post, honest, just commenting on that one line that mentioned vaxed kids are fine when there is no major outbreak -- the 70% means that just isn't true. It doesn't take multiple kids having a disease for one vaxed (or unvaxed) kid to get it.

You're most certainly entitled to your opinion and your choice whether 70% is worth it or not -- that's absolutely fine. I wasn't trying to convert you or anything.

[Julie K]

Good grief woman! You really give my fingers a run for their money :laugh:

:headscratch: :headscratch:

[JeDeeLenae]

:headscratch: :headscratch:
don't bother scratching your head... Just say :whoop:

[Julie K]

don't bother scratching your head... Just say :whoop:

:giggle: :giggle:

[havanadaydreamin]

That is just dumb, imo. If your child is vacinnated, he/she is protected.

Some people can just be ignorant about stuff:banghead:

[pigletmsu]

I read this thread last night and got some really good ideas from it. Imagine my surprise when tonight I was hanging out with a couple of my girl friends and the topic of vaxxes came up and apparently I have never mentioned my views on vaxxes before as my one friend was surprised by the fact that we're not fully vaxxed in my house. I was mentioning how I had to print off a waiver for the vaxxes we're not going to do so I could register DS for school tomorrow.

I then said, "actually, DS is the most vaxxed out of all the kids, just the chicken pox and his second MMR that I'm objecting to," and she was like, "Good, then my DD can still play with him." And I was like, OH NO SHE DID NOT JUST GO THERE!!! And the mouth vomit that came up was quite a picture.:giggle2: I tried to be as nice as possible, but she started going off on herd-mentality and how it's only the rich people with too much time on their hands and the internet who aren't vaxxing and that the poor people on medicaid are sheep just blindly vaxxing their kids because it's free. And I was just like "is this crap really coming out of her mouth???":jawdrop: I still love her and this won't effect our friendship, but it did make me realize that I might want to keep our vaxxing status to myself from now on when it comes to my less-crunchy friends.:giggle:

[JeDeeLenae]

yeah, I do. My family is about the soggiest you'll ever meet. They're HORRIFIED by anything not "normal". Cloth diapers, mama pads, recycling, homebirth, not circumsizing, vax, and the list goes on. I'm like 1 of a 100 that totally fell out of their "normal" description, and they all look at me like I've grown 2 more heads.

[Gizmo516]

Who knows why people think things they think.

We fully vax. We probably always will. Who knows.

-Rach

[haydn'smommy]

Didn't read the whole thread but here's my thoughts:
As much as I'd like to pad my child with bubble wrap and hide him away from the world to keep him safe and protected, I can't. Kids are going to get sick, and every time he does it will make his immune system that much stronger. He has received some vaccines and will likely receive them all in time, but I would never prevent him from being around a child that wasn't vaxed. It makes no sense to me.