So, I need some advice on how exactly to handle this situation that has arisen. My 4 year old daughter went up north with my parents this weekend along with my ds and their (soon to be) cousin. When the kids arrived home I got my daughter in the shower knowing a weekend of camping was dirty. I noticed she was not wearing any undies under her pants and I asked her why. She said that she wet all of her undies (she has a tendancy to wait untilt he last possible moment before telling you she needs to go potty). I decided to talk with her about her "area" being private and to not let anyone see or touch it and if someone were to that she should tell mommy or daddy immediatly. She then blurts out "Jayson tried to touch my cucu and I told him that was nasty". She even showed me how he tried to touch her and yes, it was on her private area. I then (very calmly) asked for details, where, when and who was around. She said it was not up north that it was when she was over my moms a while ago. I know 4 year olds have no concept of time so I immediatly called my mother and then I found out this happened last week and OOPS, she forgot to tell me :banghead: WTH??? Apparently Madison said that they were showing each other parts (made no mention of touching) and my mom said she talked to them (apparently not good enough) but failed to tell me. I am so upset, this is my baby girl. My "nephew" is 7 years old and knows better plus this is not the first time. About a year ago my dh walked into the room to see my nephew with his pants undone and my dd in front of him. We talked to both kids as well as my brother and his girlfriend. Since then I thought we were supervising well enough. I told my mom that she is not having Madison over if she can not properly supervise (she was aware of last years incident) and if she ever has the kids and Jayson arrives that I want ot be called immediatly.
Okay, so how to I handle this? Do I try talking to my brother and SIL again, make a report, avoid any and all contact between dd and cousin? This is making me sick, it is my job to protect my child and I feel like I failed her. I just want to take her and hide forever. Help, I really need advice
Tiffer23
09-18-2006, 06:41 AM
To me it sounds like your nephew is just curious. BUT, that is completely unacceptable. I would have is parents have a looooooooong talk with him and set up some serious consequences if he were to do anything like this again. He needs to know it's okay to see and play with himself, but that showing others his penis and touching other people's private areas is very wrong.
And I would make sure that DD was never ever EVER around him alone.
:hugs: That's a hard situation. He IS just a child still, but he is old enough that it all needs to be taken care of and he needs to understand that it's not right for him to be doing these things.
(And yes, I'd be very mad at the grandparents if they forgot to tell me something that important!)
Gavin&Brent'sMommy
09-18-2006, 07:03 AM
ooh I'd be livid, me personally I'd be having a very long talk with Gma & Gpa, AND bro & sil, and I'd never want their son around my daughter again (already it's not a first time incident kwim?)
GrowingUpMad
09-18-2006, 07:44 AM
I understand kids are curious but this is MY daughter, she is only 4. I remember being curious as well but I most certainly was not 4 nor was my friend I was curious with (nor did he touch my parts, a little show me yours I'll show you mine thing). I am just so upset and don't want to overreact but don't want to brush it off. What if I ignored it and it got worse, it would be my fault then. I am so close to my brother and SIL and don't want to cut ties but if it means keeping my daughter safe then that's what I'd do. I don't know, I am just so upset. I think I should call my brother as I can be more myself with him (meaning saying exactly what is on my mind) than with SIL (she takes things way wrong). I feel sick........
ahisma
09-18-2006, 08:05 AM
:hugs: :hugs:
I'm so sorry that you are going through this...I know that it is an awful feeling and makes your blood boil. We went through this with DD and her stepbrother (at her dad's house) when she was just barely 5 and he was 7. The first time it happened I was really upset, but wrote it off as kids being kids and called her dad to tell him and make sure that he didn't leave them together unsupervised.
The second (and third and fourth.....) times I was livid. I think that by the time a child is 7 they should know better, especially after being talked to about it. I understand that a 7 y.o. is a child...but I do feel that if their parent is responsible they can clearly understand right from wrong and make a proper decision...especially regarding something like this.
Of course, in DD's situation, the parents weren't helping. The kids were constantly left together unsupervised...this was happening in the basement, under the stairs, while DD's dad (my ex) was shut in his bedroom watching TV and smoking. When it became obvious that he wasn't going to do anything, I did wind up calling DSS...because it was the only thing I could do. I couldn't refuse to send DD for visitation, but somehow it had to stop. In the end, they all wound up getting counseling, and the situation has stopped.
I would definitely call your brother. See what his response is. I don't know him obviously, but there is a chance that he will be just as upset about it as you are. I know that my DH would be very distraught in his shoes and would do everything possible to "fix" things.
I do think you are right to be concerned...I have a good friend who was molested by his cousin all through his childhood. He never told his parents because his (older) cousin told him not to. I haven't researched it myself at all, but his therapist told him that cousin-cousin molestation is very common...they feel that it is close enough to be "safe" but not so close to be "wrong" (like a sibling would be).
Also a thought...I know that we took DD to a counselor for a while who emphasized that private areas were private and what to do when someone violates her body privacy. Obviously these were things that we had talked with her about many times, but I do think that having a 3rd party talk to her really drove the message home.
MamaMegan
09-18-2006, 08:07 AM
If they were both 4, I'd be concerned but honestly, he's 7 and 7 year olds do have concepts of what's right and what's not-- this world can be sick and weird. I have seen kids molest other kids (please don't think I'm saying this is what's happening) --
I would not let my child be alone with this cousin-- and I would talk to his parents and the grandparents to let them know why you're not comfortable with it. I am over protective, but hell, it's my child.
I'd also be concerned about his behavior in the where did he learn it. Or why he hasn't learned that it isn't appropriate.
((HUGS)) to you mama, that would just horrify me.
ahisma
09-18-2006, 08:12 AM
Honestly, I'd also be concerned about his behavior in the where did he learn it. Or why he hasn't learned that it isn't appropriate.
This is a very good point. My DD's stepbrother had been "exposed" to some pretty disturbing stuff at his biological father's house, and in counseling it all came out. Obviously I'm not saying that your brother or his gf are doing anything wrong with him, but there are still babysitters, neighbors...etc. Of course, that may not even be the case in this situation, but it is a possibility and it would be very worthwhile for him to go to counseling. Even if he hasn't learned it from somewhere else, it would help him learn appropriate behavior.
cuties02q
09-18-2006, 08:24 AM
Sorry mama i cannot imagine what you are going through i don't have advice just :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
togg_mama
09-18-2006, 08:32 AM
If it was my DD, she would *never* be around that little boy without my DH or I actually watching her. Period.
It probably is curiosity, but I am concerned that it has happened before. My children's safety is my responsibility and if I cannot trust those that I delegate temporary care to (ie: grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.) then I need to step to the plate and make sure my child is not harmed in any way.
Obviously if you're dealing with visitation, you're hands are a bit tied, but in the OP's case, you can just decline.
:hugs: Mama! not fun.
GrowingUpMad
09-18-2006, 08:44 AM
I talked to my brother just a bit ago and he is very upset. He did say Jayson was exposed to it in his past (by some local neighbor kids) so that is most likely where he learned it. He is going to talk to my SIL about it and together they will talk with Jayson and also look into counsling. I also told him that we will not seperate ourselves from them but they will not watch any of my kids again (nor will my parents) and that I will always be supervising my kids around him (as well as everyone else). She will NEVER be alone with him again. He totally understood and was also very upset as this is his neice and we are all very close. I understand kids being interested but my daughter is only 4 and he is 7, he should certainly know better.
Zan
09-18-2006, 09:47 AM
It sounds like talking to him brought about 'good' results. I agree that they shouldn't be together without supervision that your most comfortable with. Regardless of who those people are (Grandparents, siblings, friends, sorry to say but sometime parents) it's most important that your child(ren) are safe and you feel comfortable about them being in their care.
I'm an Oprah fan and there was one episode that really keeps coming into my mind. Basically, it reiterates that if you feel like something is wrong that it's best to go with that feeling even if it doesn't make sense to you. It's hard sometimes to go with that because you think your 'reading' into it or whatever, but keeping yourself, your children and your family safe is the most important and it's better to be wrong than find out later you should have gone with your instinct.
tillers72
09-18-2006, 02:00 PM
:hugs: for you and dd...thank goodness it didn't go any further than it did, but it's still way too far! I would definately say NOT to leave them alone again even with the counseling b/c seriously, who is to say that it has changed? It's the best thing for her to not be exposed to him anymore, but since it's family, that is a bit hard...the best you can do is to keep her out of his reach. I hate to sound like this child is a monster, and since I don't know him, he could be an otherwise 'normal' child. However, this is just one of the signs that can predict future problems with a child.
bethkay
09-18-2006, 02:36 PM
You did the right thing! I am so glad you talked to your brother. I hope they do get his son into counseling.:hugs:
One of my favorite sayings is "God throws you a few pebbles before you get hit with a stone." In other words, we shouldn't ignore the warning signs. You are a good mama for taking action.
Hayley
09-18-2006, 02:43 PM
ETA I just read that you talked to your brother sorry I was too fast to post rather then reading first :)
I am sorry I am sure I will get flamed but my Ex boyfriends son was touching my nephew who was he same age and also his own sister who was 6 years younger like I am talking a baby! this is NOT cool I would put a stop to it right away. I broke up with my ex so he could and would have any reason to be around my nephew!
If I was in your place I would not allow the children to be together PERIOD!
IMO something has happened to this boy for him to be doing this at his age and from what I am getting more then once. I would look into this if I was you and keep him away from my kids regardless of them being boys or girls!
Sorry I am just very passionate about this!
Korbins Mommy
09-18-2006, 02:44 PM
One of my favorite sayings is "God throws you a few pebbles before you get hit with a stone." In other words, we shouldn't ignore the warning signs. You are a good mama for taking action.
Good saying! And good for you Momma for taking care of this. I can't imagine how hard it was to talk to the brother about this. :hugs: Well done.
vick
09-18-2006, 02:47 PM
Man - I would have been just as upset. I'm *so* glad your brother handled the situation so well and is going to get counseling for his son. I think your not letting your brother or your parents watch her is a very good plan. :hugs: to both of you!!
A'smommy
09-18-2006, 03:11 PM
:hugs:
Glad you were able to talk to your brother. Definitely the kids need to be supervised, and cousin definitely needs to go into counseling. Hopefully they will learn through counseling that he just picked up some bad habits from neighbor kids, and not that he was the victim of one of them. I worked as a crisis volunteer for a little while (answering the hotlines) and usually they say when kids exhibit weird behavior in that department, it's a big red flag.
GL mama!
SugarBunsWool&More
09-18-2006, 03:25 PM
I talked to my brother just a bit ago and he is very upset. He did say Jayson was exposed to it in his past (by some local neighbor kids) so that is most likely where he learned it. He is going to talk to my SIL about it and together they will talk with Jayson and also look into counsling. I also told him that we will not seperate ourselves from them but they will not watch any of my kids again (nor will my parents) and that I will always be supervising my kids around him (as well as everyone else). She will NEVER be alone with him again. He totally understood and was also very upset as this is his neice and we are all very close. I understand kids being interested but my daughter is only 4 and he is 7, he should certainly know better.
I am so glad your brother was understanding. I think you did the right thing in talking with him.
:hugs: What a tough situation.
momof4
09-18-2006, 03:26 PM
You did so many right things; good for you! A couple of additional comments:
1. I have a boy with ADHD, now 11. ADD kids tend to run about 3 years behind in terms of emotional and self-control issues, so if this boy has anything like this, it might explain his behavior -- and also, counseling will help.
2. It sounds like you'd feel better if you could talk to your almost-nephew at some point too, and let him know why you were so upset. Hearing it from you as well as from his parents will help clear the air and reinforce the message. But don't back down about your being there to supervise at all times.
Kudos to your DD for telling you about it, too. Really, in many ways, this is a good outcome -- you taught her an important lesson in self protection, and in the ways that you will protect her.
camdensmommy
09-18-2006, 03:31 PM
Thank you very much for taking action! You are such a smart/courageous mama to see the warnings and take heed. I was abused as a child so I am always wary. You also taught your daughter a very, very, very valuable lesson. That when she tells you something like this that 1. you believe her 2. you will do something about it and 3. it wasn't her fault.
I don't even know you but am proud of you.
That is awesome that you spoke to your brother and that they are going to do something. It sounds like your nephew needs some counseling. He needs to be taught appropriate physical boundaries or things could quickly get out of hand. It wasn't his fault that something happened to him but eventually it will be his fault if he harms others.
GrowingUpMad
09-18-2006, 03:51 PM
Thanks to all for the support and words of encourgement. :hugs:
I spoke with SIL regarding the situation (she called me) and while I am happy she called I am a bit upset. One thing she said really made me question her parenting ~ "I'll talk with Jay tonight and let you know how it goes. If he says he did it then he is in big trouble, if he says no then theres not much I can realy do". WTH is that??? I said that I had no reason to belive my 4 year old was lying so regardless of what Jayson says I am believing my daughter. I thought that was a little off for her to say. he is constantly lying so why does she think he'd come forth with this one.
BTW this is not my brothers son, it is his fiances. His bio father is not around and hasn't been for 4 years.
Hayley
09-18-2006, 03:59 PM
that is very disturbing you should let your brother know about her responce and your mother just so they know not toleave your children with her alone at any time......I am soooooo sorry! your babies are so lucky to have a momma like you!
camdensmommy
09-18-2006, 04:19 PM
I think this is also something important for your brother to know before going into a marriage with her. Children are children and they sometimes lie, especially if they feel threatened by the truth. If she refuses to face the possibility of what happened and the seriousness of it then that could be something your brother would have a hard time dealing with once they were married.
bethkay
09-18-2006, 04:44 PM
By her response, it sounds like the SIL to be doesn't plan to address this issue. She is probably in denial. It would be a hard thing to accept. Who wants to think of their child as a potential molester?
But this is a serious issue and if her and your brother get married, then what about their future children? If she doesn't get her son help, they could be at risk.
Good luck and sorry you have to go through this.:hugs: You are a brave mama.
beenwaitingalongtime
09-18-2006, 05:06 PM
Well, I feel sick FOR you. Poor mama. :hugs:
Glad your brother had the right reaction. Hopefully it's nothing more than your nephew making a wrong decision...twice and he'll grow up to be a healthy, appropriately-behaved boy.
HOWEVER, SIL's reaction makes it hard to believe he'll have the guidance to do so. Maybe your brother will be the role model the boy is lacking?
In a way, I can understand a mother trusting in her son and taking his words for things (just as you take DD's word for it) but w/ a history of lying, there comes a time when you can no longer believer everything that comes out of some kids' mouths...
Just wanted to say, tho, KUDOS to your DD for LYK what happened (finally). I don't know that a whole lot of 4 y/o would think enough to mention something like that. And good for her for telling your nephew he was being inappropriate. You must be doing something good w/ her!:thumbsup:
Babyvan
09-19-2006, 01:37 PM
I think you are making the right decision, as hard as it might be. I am concerned that the boy's mother doesn't seem to be concerned about her son's psychological issues. If he was abused, or exposed to inappropriate matter, he needs help. Not only is your dd in possible danger, so are other children he comes into contact with. And that is not to even mention that he's a CHILD and he needs to be saved from a possible future of being an abuser. They need to step in NOW in supportive but strict ways and make sure he's always supervised and that he gets the help he needs. They are both children. They BOTH deserve help. I hope the mom gets it. If not, then I hope your brother knows what he's getting into.
Sweet_Fantasy_Fox
09-19-2006, 01:57 PM
i agree with the others
Shaineinok
09-19-2006, 02:05 PM
What a tought situation. I agree with the others.
Shannon
09-19-2006, 05:07 PM
OH Dawn! I'm SO sorry you are going through this! It is absolutly NOT acceptable and I would NOT let my child around him again. Even if he is just curious it doesn't mean that he can be curious at your DD's expense...no way.
If you've already talked to everyone then it sounds like talking isn't going to work. Its so sad too...but the only thing you can do is protect your DD from being molested. I just found out last week that my friends almost 4 yr old has been being molested by a 13 year old boy for almost a year. It makes me completly completly sick and I am hell bent to protect my children from something like that happening to them.
And you mother didn't find telling you something like that important? WTH is wrong with her?!?!? That is soooo serious and I would be so mad ast my mom for not telling me something like that. I would not let her watch my children again. Protecting Madi and Lilly is far more important that hurting an adults feelings.
sharebear2u
09-19-2006, 05:17 PM
You handled it exactly the way I would have. In certain situations, there is no supervision as good as a parent. SInce you are close with them, I would defintely follow up in a month or so to make sure they do have him in counceling and didn't put it off. If he was exposed, then they might be able to get help from DCFS, too.
urchin_grey
09-19-2006, 05:25 PM
I'm so sorry you are going through this... I know its very scary. I would really talk to your brother though because it really sounds like to me that they need to find out if anyone is hurting that boy. It probably *is* just curiousity but it *may* not be.
Anyway, the reason I say it may not just be curiosity is because the same thing happened to me when I was the same age as your DD only the boy was also 4. (Ok, what I'm about to say might disturb some people and its really bad... so beware.....) He used to bring me in the bushes and pull his pants down and ask me to do things to him. Well, I was a little smart @$$ so I would always just say "do it yourself" and he's say "please, my Nana does it." :eek: (Yeah, I know, messed up...)
****OK, aweful part over***
And at the time, I didn't understand but after I was MUCH older I realized that that kid was probably being abused. And I feel really bad to this day that I didn't tell anybody because I may have could have got him out of that house if anything really was going on, but, ya know... I was only four.
But, all that being said, I just wanted to add that I'm not scarred or anything from any of that... maybe because I was so young and didn't understand at the time. (And he never touched me or anything.) I mean, by all means, protect you daughter... I just thought it might make you feel better to know that she's probably not going to be severely traumatized or anything.... I mean, you know your daughter though, so talk to her and find out what she's really got on her mind about it, kwim?
GrowingUpMad
09-20-2006, 03:29 PM
Oh my, that is terrible! Thank you so much for sharing your story with me though.
I am planning on sitting down to talk with her tonight. I tried to yesterday but she was so overly tired she didn't want anything to do with a serious converstation. I did tell my brother what SIL said and he said "oh, I'm sure she didn't mean it that way". I can not force them (more so her than him) to properly raise my nephew or take him to counseling but I can keep my kids FAR FAR away from him. I told them we would not be at his birthday party and they actually cancelled it (not sure if it was a financial thing or a punishment thing). I truely hope they get him help so he never does this again though and so he can grow up to be a confident young man. As for my mom she knows I am upset and of course has not called me or stopped by (she is notorious for avoiding). I made it clear that she will not watch the kids which I know upset her and does hurt (especially considering she thinks I hav kids for her sake) but again, I am looking out for my kids and she has officially proved herself unfit in my eyes (has proven herself that way several times but this is the final straw). Thanks to all for your support, you always make it easy to come here fo advice.
