Structure - how much is enough??

[diaperangel]

I have two kiddos. My DD is 2 yrs and my DS is 8 months. I work full time, but off hours, so I am home all day and I work evenings when my Dh gets home. we are a busy family... my question is, how much structure is enough?

I believe in learning through play, but also that organized learning (scheduled reading etc) is important. Sometimes, I wonder if I do enough? I feel sometimes like I can barely keep up with tidying up let alone cleaning and organized learning time...but I know it's important. How much structure do you think is necessary? What does your average day look like?

Thanks Mamas!!:goodvibes:

[MT_ranch_mom]

I'm a sahm, but we have a pretty structured household. Both of my kids moods are better that way because they know what to expect.
Here's a sample day of ours:

Everyone wakes up between 7-8. We eat breakfast and then I shower. If we have errands to run, I get the kids ready to go and we get our errands done before lunch.

10am is snack whether we're at home or out and about.

If we are home, the kids play and I play with them be it outside or in. We are outside A LOT weather permitting.

After snack, if we are at home, I use that time to clean up and let the kids entertain themselves/each other. I get laundry done and dishes done during that time, plus any other cleaning that needs to be done.

12 is lunch time. After lunch, I let the girls watch a 30 minute dvd. My 11 month old doesn't watch, she just plays on the floor. After the dvd is over, I read two small stories and then it's nap time at 1pm.

Typically the girls sleep till 2:30 or 3. Sometimes my 2 yo is up before my 11 month old. I sew while the girls are napping and do other things like pay bills, answer emails, etc..

At 3 we have a snack and then play some more. I start thinking about what's for dinner between 4 and 5.

The girls entertain themselves while I cook and we eat dinner about 6.

After dinner, the girls get a bath and then put on jammies. My 11 month old goes to bed between 7:15 and 7:30 and my 2 1/2 year old goes to bed at about 8. DH or I read to her before bed. DH lays down with my 2 1/2 year old until she goes to sleep.

That's our day just about every day. It's not super exciting, but it works for us.

I believe in learning through play, but also do read to the girls. I do not, however go overboard with 'learning toys'. We sing ABC's, we name colors and stuff like that, but I believe that kids just need to PLAY.
My 2 1/2 year old helps me wash dishes and she helps me cook dinner. Her favorite thing is if I'm making BBQ chicken (for example), I pour the BBQ in a bowl and give her a basting brush and she gets to 'paint' the chicken before it goes into the oven. She thinks it's a blast! I include the girls as much as I can in cleaning too. My 2 1/2 year old puts away all of her clothes after they've been washed and she helps me dust. I believe while it's huge for kids to learn, it's also important for my kids to learn that the housework is not mine and mine alone. DH helps a ton when he's home, but he works long hours so he helps more on the weekends. I feel that by having DD put away her clothes and dust, she's learning to take care of her things and *hopefully* will continue that as she gets older.

Gotta run and get dinner started!

[GEM Cloth]

We lean more towards being unstructured because it fits mine and DH's personality but we really just let the kids lead in letting us know who needs how much structure. Our girls really did not/do not need that much; our son needs a lot more than they do. Our nieces need a LOT of structure and expectations when they are here, but that might be because they are not at their own house, and when they are here that makes FIVE kids, which is a lot for me.

We do not really have any certain time that we do certain things, it's more of a routine and it gets done within a reasonable amount of time. We focus more on end results and getting things done, not the clock. I'm positive I'd go nuts if dinner was at 6 pm., bathtime at 6:30, reading at 7 p.m., lights out at 7:30 p.m., etc. Not knocking that if it works for other families because I know it does, but that would fly over like a lead balloon at this house.

We also have a lot of free play time where they either play individually or together. I think kids learn a whole lot more through just playing and being with their family and there is no need to force anything.

Well I guess I said all that to say just let your family and your kids let you know how much structure you need, and then go from there. It needs to fit your personality and the personalities of your children and feel right.

[diaperangel]

Thanks! I am wondering though, does anyone else feel "lazy" or "unproductive" without structure? I sometimes do, but I am not sure it's a viable feeling...like maybe not everything NEEDS to be structured.

[GEM Cloth]

Thanks! I am wondering though, does anyone else feel "lazy" or "unproductive" without structure? I sometimes do, but I am not sure it's a viable feeling...like maybe not everything NEEDS to be structured.

If you feel that way then it could be that you need more structure. Whatever you are doing needs to FEEL right to you. It also needs to WORK for you, make things easier (not harder) for you and it should help your kids be happier and feel better.

Also you might be going too hard on yourself to be "productive." Just take a deep breath and look at your beautiful children and your wonderful family. If they are happy you are doing something right. Don't be so hard on yourself. Everything doesn't have to be structured. It feels so good to just relax and let happiness happen. Children do not need to be poked and prodded every waking moment of the day. They need freedom and time to do whatever their little hearts want to do at the moment. They learn and grow so much that way. It just happens, you don't have to MAKE it happen. You can tell if they need more structure, so if it looks like they do, make adjustments. :goodvibes:

Oh you could do an experiment of sorts. Try a schedule/structure, not a huge one where every minute is scheduled, but more than what you have right now. If it feels like too much, back off until it feels right. If it feels great and works for your family, keep doing it.

[diaperangel]

[QUOTE=michellemomx3;8586132]If you feel that way then it could be that you need more structure. Whatever you are doing needs to FEEL right to you. It also needs to WORK for you, make things easier (not harder) for you and it should help your kids be happier and feel better.

Also you might be going too hard on yourself to be "productive." Just take a deep breath and look at your beautiful children and your wonderful family. If they are happy you are doing something right. Don't be so hard on yourself. Everything doesn't have to be structured. It feels so good to just relax and let happiness happen. Children do not need to be poked and prodded every waking moment of the day. They need freedom and time to do whatever their little hearts want to do at the moment. They learn and grow so much that way. It just happens, you don't have to MAKE it happen. You can tell if they need more structure, so if it looks like they do, make adjustments. :goodvibes:

:goodvibes: :goodvibes: That is very wise, thank you! You sound like my husband...I'm the "anal " one, trying to learn to lighten up, it's a tough learning curve!

[MT_ranch_mom]

I wanted to add that just because the hours in my days are structured that's mostly because of my kids. They just do better being on a firm nap/bedtime and eating schedule, but they guided me in that direction. I'm much more of a 'play it by ear' person, but they aren't so I was the one that adjusted and here we are now.
For the first 2 years of DD1's life you could set your watch to her sleep/awake schedule. She was just like that. She went to bed at 8, woke up at 8. She napped from 10-noon, then she napped from 2-4. She required A LOT of sleep. She was just happier that way. She was also one that wanted to be put in her crib with no lights on and some white noise. She's still like that. No light, white noise, leave me alone and let me sleep kind of kid. The only difference is that she's down to 1 nap a day. DD2 went down to 1 nap a day earlier than DD1 so now they are on the same nap schedule.

Even though I was able to type out what we do certain hours of the day, that doesn't mean they don't do their own thing. They are playing on the floor right now. I'm not doing a structured learning activity with them, they are just playing. I'm about to go do some laundry and they will play on their own.

I agree with Michelle that kids don't need to be poked and prodded. I don't feel that each and every thing they do needs to be some sort of vast and enlightening learning lesson. :giggle: As I stated above, I feel that kids just need to play. They are learning all the time.

If my kids (my oldest especially) strays too far away from schedule she doesn't handle it well. She will have tantrums and melt downs and it will make my day very long and very hard. The evenings get even worse if our day has been 'off'. But again, I stress that she led us in that direction. The older she gets the more able she is to stray from the schedule as she becomes more able to handle the change. Still, I do what works best for me and the kids and our sanity as a whole. :)

[GEM Cloth]

My son is kind of like Missy's DD#1. He needs to eat and sleep regularly, and pretty much from the moment he was born he had a discernible schedule. So he needs more planning. He wants oatmeal for breakfast and TV/movie/playtime every morning. He needs a midmorning snack and then a good filling lunch. After lunch he has to have his nap. Before he stopped his morning naps he went to sleep between 9-9:15 every single morning. I do a lot of my work over the phone and I set my phone interviews for 9:30 a.m., I knew he would be asleep.

Now my two girls, free spirits both, especially the older one. She never has needed much food or sleep, and can adapt to pretty much anything that is going on. The second doesn't need much food or sleep either, but needs more than her sister and she leans more towards needing just a tiny bit of structure. My husband and I just cannot do scheduling/rigid structure, it is totally against both of our natures.

So we just try to do what the kids need/follow their lead on structure requirements and balance all that with our own natural inclinations. We just try to let everyone be who they are and do what they do.

[Rebeldream]

Organized learning isn't so much important as BEING there in the moment with your kids at every available opportunity.

And by BEING there I mean totally focused on them, not "Oh, really? Mhhhm"ing your way through a conversation while you're thinking about groceries or bills or car pool. Listen to them, interact with them, observe them, learn WITH them. Allow them to open your eyes to the small things that we no longer SEE as adults. The small pleasures.

They'll grow and learn more from genuine interaction than they ever will from "organized learning" sessions. Not to say that reading isn't important, but HOW you read IS. If just getting through the story so you can say you read a book to them is the goal, you're missing out on the opportunity to BE with your kids. Maybe your LO wants to talk about one picture at length and then loses interest in the book and wants to look at another. There's just as much learning happening there (more!) than if you were to "finish" the story.

Plenty of good can come from structure, but there's much to be said about lack of structure as well.

We have --no-- structure whatsoever. We pursue interests and adventures as they present themselves. No organized learning happens in this house (if I can help it, lol!) but learning is happening by leaps and bounds every second of our waking hours. In order to appreciate this, though, you have to change the way you view and value learning. Good luck, Mama!

[diaperangel]

Organized learning isn't so much important as BEING there in the moment with your kids at every available opportunity.

And by BEING there I mean totally focused on them, not "Oh, really? Mhhhm"ing your way through a conversation while you're thinking about groceries or bills or car pool. Listen to them, interact with them, observe them, learn WITH them. Allow them to open your eyes to the small things that we no longer SEE as adults. The small pleasures.

They'll grow and learn more from genuine interaction than they ever will from "organized learning" sessions. Not to say that reading isn't important, but HOW you read IS. If just getting through the story so you can say you read a book to them is the goal, you're missing out on the opportunity to BE with your kids. Maybe your LO wants to talk about one picture at length and then loses interest in the book and wants to look at another. There's just as much learning happening there (more!) than if you were to "finish" the story.

Plenty of good can come from structure, but there's much to be said about lack of structure as well.

We have --no-- structure whatsoever. We pursue interests and adventures as they present themselves. No organized learning happens in this house (if I can help it, lol!) but learning is happening by leaps and bounds every second of our waking hours. In order to appreciate this, though, you have to change the way you view and value learning. Good luck, Mama!

Hmm, very interesting! It sounds like you are very good at inspiring intrinsic learning, lucky kids!! Thanks mama, I will think about this more. Do you have a time schedule, like wake, eat, outing, eat?? Or is everything more random?

Thanks!

[Rebeldream]

Hmm, very interesting! It sounds like you are very good at inspiring intrinsic learning, lucky kids!! Thanks mama, I will think about this more. Do you have a time schedule, like wake, eat, outing, eat?? Or is everything more random?

Thanks!

Everything is very very random, but I indulge in that possiblity because of our life situations right now. DH is a cop who's shift changes every 4 months (he's on swing shift right now (2:30pm-10:30pm) but we just changed over from graveyards (10:30pm-6:30am)), I am self-employed and work either at home during naps/down time or at my mom's (and the kids love playing at grandma's!), plus we homeschool. So aside from DH's work we are not tied to a schedule in any way, and we change our hours around DH's hours so as to spend the most time with him.

We go to bed when we're tired. That includes the kids. If they're sleepy before I am they are more than welcome to crawl into bed or crash on the floor or (most common) ask to be put to bed. That rarely happens, though. They're more than happy to hang with us until all hours of the morning. (It was around midnight-ish last night.)

We wake up when we're rested. For DH, DS, and I, this was around 11am this morning. DD slept until 1. This will have to change when DH starts a day shift and has to be up at 5am, but in that case our schedule will work around to going to bed much earlier.

We eat when we're hungry. It's not uncommon to hear my two year old say, "I'm hungry. You hungry, too, Mama?" because I'm always asking the kids that. Some days we snack constantly, some days we have two meals because we're otherwise busy and can't be bothered. Just depends.

We run errands or do fun things as required or available. Luckily, we live just around the corner from the museum, library, park, and Dairy Queen (with a play center inside) so walking out the door on a whim is common. DD will say, "We haven't been to the museum lately." and off we'll go. Shopping is a fun thing to do and we all look forward to it. (My friends think I'm insane (for many reasons) but also for enjoying shopping with kids. They're always saying, "I'll watch them for you!" No, thanks! I want 'em with me!) We get popcorn chicken and water when we first get there, then walk around munching, singing, reading packages, talking about sizes and colors, debating the merrits of this cereal vs that one, etc. Then we walk around and look at clothes or toys for a long time (usually while the icrecream melts... oops.). Shopping trips (without DH) usually last 3-4 hours.

So, to make a long story even longer, no, we don't have a schedule, even a rough one. My work gets done when it gets done. If I'm up against a deadline, then I will get up after everyone is asleep and finish things up then. I love the flexibility and spontenaity and I am greatful every moment that I'm in a situation where this is possible because I know it's not for many (most) people.

[GEM Cloth]

I'm so glad you replied to this Rebeldream! I saw your name on the last post and just HAD to come back in. I LOVE the way you live. :wub: We live even more randomly in the summer out-of-school months than we do the other months of the year. Like you guys do, wake up when we wake up, go to sleep when we get tired. I do cook and serve a couple meals a day, we have five kids all day during the day in the summer; one is a constant eater (my son) and one is a diabetic who needs to eat regularly and she also eats a LOT (as in she needs more than a bowl of cereal). During the summer because of the number of children we do a "chore chart" every day; it gives the kids focus, they are proud because they accomplished something, and I'm not futilely trying to clean up after five people all day long. They have to have something to do or else they start swarming and being extremely rowdy and making all kinds of racket and I can't deal with it LOL.

[diaperangel]

Everything is very very random, but I indulge in that possiblity because of our life situations right now. DH is a cop who's shift changes every 4 months (he's on swing shift right now (2:30pm-10:30pm) but we just changed over from graveyards (10:30pm-6:30am)), I am self-employed and work either at home during naps/down time or at my mom's (and the kids love playing at grandma's!), plus we homeschool. So aside from DH's work we are not tied to a schedule in any way, and we change our hours around DH's hours so as to spend the most time with him.

We go to bed when we're tired. That includes the kids. If they're sleepy before I am they are more than welcome to crawl into bed or crash on the floor or (most common) ask to be put to bed. That rarely happens, though. They're more than happy to hang with us until all hours of the morning. (It was around midnight-ish last night.)

We wake up when we're rested. For DH, DS, and I, this was around 11am this morning. DD slept until 1. This will have to change when DH starts a day shift and has to be up at 5am, but in that case our schedule will work around to going to bed much earlier.

We eat when we're hungry. It's not uncommon to hear my two year old say, "I'm hungry. You hungry, too, Mama?" because I'm always asking the kids that. Some days we snack constantly, some days we have two meals because we're otherwise busy and can't be bothered. Just depends.

We run errands or do fun things as required or available. Luckily, we live just around the corner from the museum, library, park, and Dairy Queen (with a play center inside) so walking out the door on a whim is common. DD will say, "We haven't been to the museum lately." and off we'll go. Shopping is a fun thing to do and we all look forward to it. (My friends think I'm insane (for many reasons) but also for enjoying shopping with kids. They're always saying, "I'll watch them for you!" No, thanks! I want 'em with me!) We get popcorn chicken and water when we first get there, then walk around munching, singing, reading packages, talking about sizes and colors, debating the merrits of this cereal vs that one, etc. Then we walk around and look at clothes or toys for a long time (usually while the icrecream melts... oops.). Shopping trips (without DH) usually last 3-4 hours.

So, to make a long story even longer, no, we don't have a schedule, even a rough one. My work gets done when it gets done. If I'm up against a deadline, then I will get up after everyone is asleep and finish things up then. I love the flexibility and spontenaity and I am greatful every moment that I'm in a situation where this is possible because I know it's not for many (most) people.

This has given me a lot to think about. My friends, in general, are very structured, "clean" domestic...my husband and I tend to be less conventional, but I often give way to pressure (ie I SHOULD do things this way, I SHOULD have a schedule) I coach, and my husband works full time and is doing his masters...our schedule is really busy, but if we focus less on structure at home (cleaning, meal times etc) , it feels like we have more time and less arguing...and really, the only reason I try to be structured is because I have always been taught that it is better to be structured/productive/ and I feel that I need to keep up with everyone else.

I'm not the type to worry about what people think about anything else, which is why it's strange...like clothes, cars, house, religion - I speak my mind and often am the loner...but for home stuff, I have a real fear about messing my kids up...so I guess I just feel more anxious if I happen to be "wrong" KWIM??

THANK YOU for your answers!!!!:goodvibes:

[Rebeldream]

I'm so glad you replied to this Rebeldream! I saw your name on the last post and just HAD to come back in. I LOVE the way you live. :wub:

Thank you! :mrgreen:

This has given me a lot to think about. My friends, in general, are very structured, "clean" domestic...my husband and I tend to be less conventional, but I often give way to pressure (ie I SHOULD do things this way, I SHOULD have a schedule) I coach, and my husband works full time and is doing his masters...our schedule is really busy, but if we focus less on structure at home (cleaning, meal times etc) , it feels like we have more time and less arguing...and really, the only reason I try to be structured is because I have always been taught that it is better to be structured/productive/ and I feel that I need to keep up with everyone else.

I'm not the type to worry about what people think about anything else, which is why it's strange...like clothes, cars, house, religion - I speak my mind and often am the loner...but for home stuff, I have a real fear about messing my kids up...so I guess I just feel more anxious if I happen to be "wrong" KWIM??

THANK YOU for your answers!!!!:goodvibes:

The first bold is my whole focus. If I can find a way to NOT argue with my kids, then I feel successful. But this isn't to say that they get away with things, either. We have respectful expectations of them just as we would of each other or anyone else we shared a home with. We work together to do the things that "must" be done, but I always keep in mind that, as the adult, these "musts" are nothing more than choices I make and that I am therefore responsible for. More time and less arguing are wonderful goals. Our children are getting older by the second and knowing that they won't be the same people tomorrow that they were today helps me to remember that I want to love and live with them NOW, not in an hour when the dishes are done.

And to the second bolded... You WILL mess your kids up. It's inevitable. I'll mess mine up in some way shape or form, my parents messed me up, their parents messed them up; that's just the way it works. No child comes out of childhood completely unscathed. Do your best to NOT mess them up, obviously, but don't stress about it, either. Hug them too much, kiss them too much, tell them you love them and you're glad you have them and they make you happy, and just hope it'll make up for the mess. ^_^