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View Full Version : I refused a pap smear now the doctor won't treat me


cakeandbubbly
03-01-2010, 04:53 PM
I don't know what to do anymore. This is the third doctor that refuses to treat me if I refuse the pap smear. I had a pap smear in September! I was told that since I'm over 30 I only need a pap smear every 3 years now. I'm 15+ weeks pregnant and I have had no prenatal care at all because I refuse to have another pap smear. I want to hear my babies heartbeat and see him/her on an ultrasound. Is there anything I can do or do I have to forgo prenatal care all together? I absolutely will not do a pap smear and that's that.

I swear this is one big insurance scam. The doctors want as much out of your insurance as they can possibly get. I don't have the energy to keep looking for a cooperative doctor. Anyone have a similiar experience? What did you do to beat the system?

bpure8
03-01-2010, 05:02 PM
Homebirth... Sorry mama. I don't think I have ever had a Pap while pregnant. Even with my one and only Hospital birth.

keen1981
03-01-2010, 05:03 PM
Thats weird. i don't think I did either...... BUT I do know that if you are in some sort of stages of cancer you are in serious trouble when it comes to treatment.. so maybe its standard? IDK..??????

boy-oh-boy
03-01-2010, 05:05 PM
I can understand them pushing it if it's been a while, but having it that recently, I'd also be furious. Do you have any options for changing obs?

mgmsrk
03-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Why did you not stay with the OB who you generally see who did the PAP in September?

I don’t think it is just for insurance they also need to check for STD’s, to protect themselves, from contracting and from being sued.

HeatherlovesCDs
03-01-2010, 05:08 PM
I've always let them do it. But, it's usually been about a year or a little more anyway. That's ridiculous though. How about if you go to the dr. that did your pap in Sept, request your records, including the pap results and take that to someone new. (Or call them and use fax/mail if you have moved from the area.) It would seem like if you have the results in hand, they wouldn't turn you away. Or try a midwife with a birthing center or home birth. I personally would not forgo prenatal care because of not wanting a pap, but that's just me. Good luck. :hugs:

Also, it doesn't have anything to do with the insurance company. It's the OB covering his own backside because of all the lawsuits. :banghead:

jabmmt
03-01-2010, 05:13 PM
It is standard procedure to do a pap at your first pregnancy appt. Things could have changed between your last pap and now and they need to make sure that there are no infections etc. that could cause harm to the baby. If they didn't do the pap and something came up later on, they could be putting themselves in a position to be sued.

isabel249
03-01-2010, 05:13 PM
I didn't want a pap smear during pregnancy but it was a must for my Dr's office too. I went ahead and did it.

Sorry you're dealing with this.

youngmomma
03-01-2010, 05:18 PM
i had a pap while prego. it was fine.
why can't you see the dr you saw in sept?

TXmommy2be
03-01-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm just curious.. why don't you want to have another one? I understand it's a hassle since you already had one recently... will you have to pay a lot?

Sorry you're having such a hard time. (((HUGS)))

MamaZ
03-01-2010, 05:23 PM
It is standard procedure to do a pap at your first pregnancy appt. Things could have changed between your last pap and now and they need to make sure that there are no infections etc. that could cause harm to the baby. If they didn't do the pap and something came up later on, they could be putting themselves in a position to be sued.

yup.

Not meaning to scare you here but when I was pregnant with DD1, I went for my first appt at a new ob and was told it was standard and since I had a pap 6 months prior they still felt more comfortable redoing one in their office...good thing they did. Came back abnormal. I had a colposcopy and then a LEEP a month after I gave birth. My PAP earlier did not come back abnormal so the suspicious cells came about in those 6 months in between.

cakeandbubbly
03-01-2010, 05:24 PM
The doctor who did the pap in September was a Planned Parenthood doctor and where I live they only prevent pregnancies, they don't treat you during them. Can I call an OB and request just an ultrasound? Or the doppler thing, whatever they use to measure the fetus's growth and heart rate?

When I had my daughter many years ago I didn't have insurance and they didn't do anything except an ultrasound and blood work. I was thinking about calling one and telling them I don't have insurance and I would pay cash. Maybe this would get them off my back on all the extra unnecessary things.

I don't have std's, I don't have HPV. I've had the same man for 10 years and he's had the same woman (me) for 10 years. If I didn't have anything in September how could I have something now? To me it just doesn't make any sense.

haydn'smommy
03-01-2010, 05:28 PM
part of the pap is doing testing for diseases that may harm the baby or lead to preterm labor. it's not just some scam. i honestly don't see the big deal in doing the exam. would you refuse blood testing to test for blood type/rh factor and refuse rhogam if you needed it and risk your baby dying in utero? really, this is no different. it's a test to make sure you don't have a problem that would harm your unborn child.

ShiloMW
03-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Paps are not only to test for STD's so it doesn't matter about your sexual past they still require one to check for other infections and such. I don't think a Dr. will only do u/s and heart rate cause even when you go to get a 3D/4D u/s and pay out of pocket for it at like storkvision they require a dr. note so they know you have prenatal care. But you can however rent a fetal doppler online to check the heart rate yourself.

HeatherlovesCDs
03-01-2010, 05:36 PM
You are probably not going to find an OB willing to order an u/s unless you are their patient. I know there are some u/s places that do them without orders (like the 3D ones) and you have to pay out of pocket. That wouldn't be till around 20wks though. (appearently, I might be wrong about that.)

Neither my husband or I have ever had a partner other than each other and not even each other before we were married (almost 11 years). You can still have abnormal paps and issues. You could have had a pap yesterday and then have abnormal cells start growing today. I mean, they have to start at some point, right?

Anyway, bottom line is they have to cover themselves. OB's are the drs. at highest risk for lawsuits. It's sad, but true. They just aren't going to risk it.

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue, just saying there is a reason they won't take you without it. I'm not sure what your reason is for refusing, but you might have to go with a home birth midwife (or maybe one who delivers at a birthing center) and not an OB. And, to me, it's definitely not worth not having any prenatal care. That is certainly more risky than a pap you don't think you need. :hugs:

mommyofmonkeys
03-01-2010, 05:36 PM
I'd suggest a home birth too, although my midwife still wanted to do a pap. I had just had one a month earlier, so she just sent for the records. Maybe after 6 months they have to redo them if it isn't the same provider? Either way, I hope you find what you're looking for.

4boys1girlforme
03-01-2010, 05:44 PM
I've had a pap with every pregnancy. If you can't get the records from PP- why not just do another one?

twinmomma+2
03-01-2010, 06:01 PM
I am just curious I have also had to have a HIV test ALL of my pregnancies and I also have been with the same man 12 years......did I have to the test? For some reason I thought it was a law? Maybe just in my state??? Just wondering -sorry fro hjacking

BTW- I would see if you could have the Planned Parenthood Dr would be willing to send the record over to a new OB since they don't do any prenatal care? Then I would call around and let the office know that I had a pap VERY recently. Granted I always have to have a PAP within 6 months. I also know that some cancers/cells tend to grow more during pregnancy-ie- breast cancer tend to grow more during pregnancy. HTH and Good luck :)

emilykaysmommy
03-01-2010, 06:13 PM
when I was having lots of issues... the doctors would always want to do another pap and I would say but I just had one in __whenever I had last had it (honestly) and my understanding is my insurance company won't pay for another one since it hasn't been a year. They always said ok and would just do swabs/cultures...
The doctor's office I went to for my pregnancy with DD did a pap at my first appt because I was due for one...
The doctor's office I go to now for this pregnancy asked me if I had one recently, I had not so I had one... but they said if I had had one recently they wouldn't repeat it... So I don't know.... but unless they bill it differently than "well woman exam" my understanding has been your insurance co will not pay again since it should just be a yearly exam.... so you'd have to pay... but I could be wrong though:goodvibes:

JessicaNicolle
03-01-2010, 06:13 PM
Almost every Doctor/Midwife will require one from a liability standpoint. You may not have any risk, but if for some reason you end up having something you pass on to the baby AND it could have been prevented had they done the pap, they are going to get sued.

They check for things other than STD's. My mother found precancerous cells when she was 24 at a regular pap smear. She had also had them yearly, so it showed up within a year. Thank God she did, or else I probably wouldn't have a mom today. I'm not sure why you don't want to do one, it seems like a pain (believe me, I hate them as well) but it is ABSOLUTELY their responsibility to be certain of your health status if they are going to treat you.

4boys1girlforme
03-01-2010, 06:15 PM
I am just curious I have also had to have a HIV test ALL of my pregnancies and I also have been with the same man 12 years......did I have to the test? For some reason I thought it was a law? Maybe just in my state??? Just wondering -sorry fro hjacking

BTW- I would see if you could have the Planned Parenthood Dr would be willing to send the record over to a new OB since they don't do any prenatal care? Then I would call around and let the office know that I had a pap VERY recently. Granted I always have to have a PAP within 6 months. I also know that some cancers/cells tend to grow more during pregnancy-ie- breast cancer tend to grow more during pregnancy. HTH and Good luck :)

Me too- been with the same man for 14 years!

JessicaNicolle
03-01-2010, 06:16 PM
when I was having lots of issues... the doctors would always want to do another pap and I would say but I just had one in __whenever I had last had it (honestly) and my understanding is my insurance company won't pay for another one since it hasn't been a year. They always said ok and would just do swabs/cultures...
The doctor's office I went to for my pregnancy with DD did a pap at my first appt because I was due for one...
The doctor's office I go to now for this pregnancy asked me if I had one recently, I had not so I had one... but they said if I had had one recently they wouldn't repeat it... So I don't know.... but unless they bill it differently than "well woman exam" my understanding has been your insurance co will not pay again since it should just be a yearly exam.... so you'd have to pay... but I could be wrong though:goodvibes:

I asked about this too when I got pregnant (I had my pap within a year). I was told that I needed to have the old records sent over (which I did). BUT when they do paps during a pregnancy it falls under the pregnancy insurance, so it's not billed the same as a normal pap. HTH!

angelique345
03-01-2010, 06:17 PM
i WOULD NEVER HAVE A PAP SMEAR WHILE PREGNATE. My 2nd son I listened to the doctors and said ok.. My son got an infection from it. Yep.. I still do not know how they would not tell me just ooppps sorry.... They had to give me meds so they could pass to him and after birth he had to be taken right away.. It was a mess.. He was on ivs for five days because of it..

emilykaysmommy
03-01-2010, 06:19 PM
I asked about this too when I got pregnant (I had my pap within a year). I was told that I needed to have the old records sent over (which I did). BUT when they do paps during a pregnancy it falls under the pregnancy insurance, so it's not billed the same as a normal pap. HTH!

I figured they billed it differently or something if during a pregnancy... but I wasn't positive... insurance companies are so wacky sometimes. :giggle: so that's good to know:thumbsup:

descrstn
03-01-2010, 06:25 PM
Wow. Mine was in August. I cocieved in September. Im 6 mos. No new pap. I will have my ppcheckup at 6 weeks though.

The thing is my new OB ASKED when whas my last pap, I said August, she said, OK your all set then :)

This is so rediculous.

AND FURTHERMORE the big deal is that they are painful to me and some other women. So unnecessary one ARE rediculous. We shouldn't have to put up with unneccessary procedures :/

1sttimemommy
03-01-2010, 06:26 PM
I had a pap in May,it was clear so I don't need another until 2012, got pregnant in November and we did not repeat the pap at my first midwife appt. I think it's crazy that they are telling you they have to do it when you just had one and don't have to have another for 3 years. I'd check into midwife practices. Mine saw no need to re-run a test they'd just ordered a few months before.

princemelissas
03-01-2010, 06:32 PM
Can I just ask, why don't you just have a pap? I guess I don't understand what the big deal is. You are talking about the health of your baby. Did PP send your OB doc the results of the pap?

stayj
03-01-2010, 06:40 PM
You're seriously willing NOT to have prenatal care (you said you haven't so far) JUST because you don't want to repeat this test?

As many others have said, it doesn't take long sometimes for abnormal cells to develop and g row and OBs have incredibly high liability--it's the only specialty where they essentially have two patients, not one. It's gotten so bad that a lot of OBs leave the specialty because they can't afford the liability insurance.

Is it really worth it? Really?

msmellissa
03-01-2010, 07:08 PM
I see a mw and was never asked to have one. I was offered, but certainly not required. Can you try a midwife instead? Many times they won't insist on so many procedures, esp if you've had one recently.

laniesmommy
03-01-2010, 07:09 PM
It's frustrating when you are told you HAVE to do something.

Is a homebirth midwife an option for you? Mine have never required a pap during pregnancy so long as I'm up to date.

I know what it feels like to be a fired patient. I absolutely refused to sign a waiver that was given to me by an OB when I was seeking a VBAC. It was an awfully worded scare tactic and I refused to give them a loop hole to escape liability charges if something not related to the VBAC went wrong. They ousted me. It really worked out better for me in the end because I found a wonderful midwife and a beautiful experience birthing my daughter at home.

GL and :hugs:.

AmberS
03-01-2010, 07:17 PM
I think paps have been getting bad rap recently- as in they are *only* test for STDs or HPV. There are MANY forms of cervical cancer that occur in women in which the woman is HPV negative.

Good luck finding a provider who will treat you, its distressing when you can't find one who wants to follow your wishes. That being said, however, there is a lot of liability for ob providers so they need to protect themselves as well.

Maybe call Planned Parenthood and ask if they is anyone they recommend for prenatal care?

musicalisa
03-01-2010, 07:25 PM
I see a mw and was never asked to have one. I was offered, but certainly not required.

I don't recall having one either – I don't believe I ever had a prenatal app't with my midwife that required taking my pants off. :) (Though I did have to unzip to measure fundal height, etc.)

msmellissa
03-01-2010, 07:32 PM
I don't recall having one either Ė I don't believe I ever had a prenatal app't with my midwife that required taking my pants off. :) (Though I did have to unzip to measure fundal height, etc.)

lol! You're absolutely right actually! :giggle2: I've had no paps and no cervical checks. Chances are the time my pants will come off will be for the birth!

tygr2410
03-01-2010, 07:46 PM
I refused a pap b/c of the teensy chance it *could* cause, or lead to, a miscarraige, and also introduce bacteria...it wasn't a problem with the office i go to (ob/mw mixed). I told them i'd consent to one at the 6 weeks postpartum visit.

I agree with above, get your records and have them in hand (dont' they typically mail the results to you anyways so you'd already have them?)

Unless you have a history of abnormal results, i see no reason why you would need another pap before next September.

Edit to add- I just read your response on page 2, you sound like you need may have no intention of seeing an ob or midwife just b/c of the cost/impractical for you, or what type of care they can provide for you and your unborn. I urge you to keep trying, keep calling, and see someone quickly.

png_lovebirds
03-01-2010, 07:50 PM
I've never heard of them refusing you care!?! I refused my Pap this time when I was preggo b/c it gave me a false+ on my previous pregnancy! I didn't want that worry for 7 mths again! But I can't imagine them refusing care?! My Doc wasn't happy but they went with it!

I'm just amazed!!

Ilovecaseyandcoh
03-01-2010, 07:58 PM
I refused a pap b/c of the teensy chance it *could* cause, or lead to, a miscarraige,


Where did you read this?

jossb
03-01-2010, 07:59 PM
Im from Canada, so to hear that the doctors there actually refuse your care if you don't have a pap is ridiculous!!! BTW, paps and STD swabs are different. Swabs are less invasive and dont generally cause trouble, PAPs are an actual scrapping of tissue sample from just inside the opening of your cervix which is why that can cause problems if you have an easily irritated cervix.

No one here forces you to have either test. With my first baby I was under the care of an OBGYN, I got the STD swab that time. But she told me herself she prefers to do the PAP smears after the birth at your 6 week check up.

This time I have a midwife with this pregnancy and she offered me both tests and said she would be more then willing to do the pap after the birth again.

NebraskaGirl82
03-01-2010, 08:15 PM
I truly don't see the big deal and I will continue to get yearly paps because of my mom having female cancer.

At my midwife, it is standard to do a pelvic at the first appointment, with pap. I WANT one to help screen for cancers.

Now as to the HIV test, I got it with my first pg but have refused them since, they never make an issue of it.

tygr2410
03-01-2010, 08:29 PM
Where did you read this?

I had just googled it before. I don't think there is medical evidence to back it up, yet, but there are a lot of stories of "I had a papsmear and the very next day begin to bleed/cramp and it was the begining of a miscarraige" type.

I just figure, if there is a small chance, and you are worried, it's ok to postpone it untill after delivery if you have had one done in recent history, and have not recieved abnormal results, and do not have a family history of cervical cancer.

For me, at the begining of both prior pregnancies, each test came back "abnormal cells present" and the doctor (both different) said they'd recheck at the postpartum visit since it was pretty normal for results to come back false positive during pregnancy...this time i passed figuring it'd be abnormal as well and will have one postpartum.

jossb
03-01-2010, 08:30 PM
I dont think its a big deal, but the OP said she had one in September, so there really is no need to get one, thats why its stupid that the doctors are refusing her care.

Also people have different comfort levels with tests etc, so that is completely up to them and there is no right or wrong in the matter. Most women are aware of the reasons for PAP's etc.

I am of the belief that less done during pregnancy the better. Women know their own bodies and if you have stayed on top of your physical/sexual life prior to getting pregnant the 10 months in bettween will be ok!

bpure8
03-01-2010, 08:53 PM
You're seriously willing NOT to have prenatal care (you said you haven't so far) JUST because you don't want to repeat this test?

As many others have said, it doesn't take long sometimes for abnormal cells to develop and g row and OBs have incredibly high liability--it's the only specialty where they essentially have two patients, not one. It's gotten so bad that a lot of OBs leave the specialty because they can't afford the liability insurance.

Is it really worth it? Really?

I've never been to the Dr till I was 15+ weeks. They wouldn't let me make any appointment sooner unless there was an emergency.

I, personally, feel the risks are less then Dr's say. It's about Money and Lawsuits. No thank you. If there is a chance I will get an infection BECAUSE of a Pap (Which I HAVE received from my OB after a PaP 9 weeks after the birth of my 4th child) I don't want them ANYWHERE near that part of my body while I'm pregnant. I don't even have my midwife check to see how far I'm diolated durring my pregnancy and labor. She waits till I ask. (I'm usually to a 10 by then)

JustAugust
03-01-2010, 09:09 PM
Have you taken your records of the pap smear you had in September to your appointments?

Most doctors just want to do one because things can change quickly (with dangerous cervix stuff) even if you've been okay in the past, they want to make 100% sure when they start treating you that everything is okay, as some things can be really dangerous to the baby.

Honestly, I think it's a bit silly to keep declining such a simple procedure just to prove a point. *shrug* That's jmo though. You're sort of risking the health of your baby just to stand for this. I mean, chances are your baby is a-okay, but I think prenatal care is incredibly important. And a pap smear, while I'm not a fan, is really a non-issue.

You've got to do what you think is best, but you can't really complain about the doctors when the doctors aren't doing anything uncommon or dangerous.

luvsviola
03-01-2010, 09:14 PM
Honestly, I think it's a bit silly to keep declining such a simple procedure just to prove a point. *shrug* That's jmo though. You're sort of risking the health of your baby just to stand for this. I mean, chances are your baby is a-okay, but I think prenatal care is incredibly important. And a pap smear, while I'm not a fan, is really a non-issue.

You've got to do what you think is best, but you can't really complain about the doctors when the doctors aren't doing anything uncommon or dangerous.

This. By 12 weeks, my SIL (who is not overweight) had developed gestational diabetes. There are things that need monitored. I can't imagine not getting care just because of a silly test. While statistically your baby might be fine, I would not risk it because there could be something preventable that is getting ignored just because you are trying to make a point. Just because you know you are fine does not mean that the doc knows that. People lie all the time. Without the records, they can't afford to just "believe you."

SillyEllie
03-01-2010, 09:23 PM
well why are you refusing? I know you just had one but that's standard procedure when you become pregnant you get a pap. They probably refuse to treat you bc you arn't letting them by them doing their job kwim? It's not worth you not getting prenatal treatment. I would just get it

DKnightSkye
03-01-2010, 09:25 PM
To the OP... I would keep looking for an OB. Also, if you are only talking to someone over the phone to find out they won't treat you without the PAP then don't believe them. With my last OB (had to get a new one cause we moved) I was told that my first prenatal visit HAD to be done by the Nurse Practitioner. It was THE WORST exam and PAP I've ever had and I felt totally violated by the end of it and for the first time bled after my PAP. I was PISSED! At my second appointment I was "allowed" to see the OB and I told her and she got upset (at the NP for the professionalism but also at the phone staff for lying). She was MORE than willing to do the first exam OR allow me to put the PAP off for the second visit if I felt more comfortable. From what I heard both the NP and the Phone person got a HUGE earful from my OB. They have policies but they also have EXCEPTIONS but often you can't find out about exceptions by talking to anyone other than the doctors themselves. I would keep trying and go to PP and explain the issue to them and ask them for their thoughts.



As to the HIV test...I declined it with my first. Not sure about my second and third. They never asked and I never accepted or declined. This time around same thing, they didn't ask I didn't accept or decline. BUT when I got the billing statement from insurance it listed HIV test under the blood work so apparently they tested it. I assume they'd have told me if there was an issue, but I was surprised to see they could just run that test without asking.

tygr2410 Don't take this wrong but I'm glad you had that false positive experience! I had an "abnormal cells" result with the pap they did at the start of this pregnancy and have been trying not to freak since. :-/ And I was thinking at the time "well isn't it NORMAL to have abnormal cells when you are pregnant?" :banghead: but haven't asked the doctor cause I'm just living on the hope that that's true, KWIM? Anyway, you have renewed my hope. :D

elibellij
03-01-2010, 09:36 PM
Please do whatever you need to do to receive prenatal care -- for your own sake and your baby's :)

bakersrose
03-01-2010, 09:50 PM
I haven't read ALL the responses, so forgive me if this has already been said. It seems to me that this is about INFORMED CONSENT! If you don't want a pap, you should be able sign a waiver releasing them of legal obligation (heaven forbid something come up later) and still be able to be seen as a patient.

I guess the biggest question here is really what kind of birth you're looking for. I have heard of places that will just do the ultrasound for you, but that leaves you with no on-call provider for the birth. If you're comfortable with doing an unassisted birth and just going to the emergency room if necessary, that could work. If you want a provider you've established a relationship with, that won't cut it. You could look for a midwife as they seem to be a little more able/willing to work with mamas on stuff like this. Otherwise, maybe talk to some other mamas or friends in your area and see if anyone recommends an OB that was willing to work with them on similar issues. I also find it very hard to believe that, if you went in and actually saw an ob, they would force you into a pap or not see you at all. I may be wrong. Is it possible you could get an appointment, see the OB, then when they say "ok, time for your pap" tell them you want a waiver?

Judesmommy
03-01-2010, 11:07 PM
That really sucks mama, I would look for a midwife locally to take you on as a patient. Mine give excellent pre-natal care whether you are doing a home or hospital birth. What I really love about her is she sees her roll in my pregnancy as to inform me of kind of tests are done in pregnancy and why, and then the choice is mine to have them done or not. Good luck mama

cwieberdink
03-02-2010, 05:33 AM
Yes, a pap can show a false positive result during pregnancy. Pregnancy causes changes in the cervix and the ectocervical cells that can show as "atypical" on a pap. The only "infection" that can be tested for on a pap is HPV and that is also the only thing that causes cervical cancer. A family history of cervical cancer is irrelevant.

There is no reason that a pap would HAVE TO be repeated in early pregnancy. It is NOT an essential part of prenatal care. I like it if my ladies have had gonorrhea and chlamydia cultures, but most don't. I can do paps if they want them and I can do the cultures if they want them, but 99% refuse. That's ok by me.

I also see a dr., and I have done NO tests or procedures other than the initial bloodwork (which I require from all my clients too). My doc is cool with it.

To the OP, find a midwife. It sounds like the type of care you'd prefer.

Also, "prenatal care" as done in MOST OB offices around the country is a reactive type of medicine meant to deal with problems as they arise, not a preventative type of care. There is an interesting book about this called Expecting Trouble: What Expectant Parents Should Know About Prenatal Care in America by Thomas Strong.

rachaeljohnson
03-02-2010, 05:41 AM
i have always refused pregnant and my mw just says they will do one at my 6 week pp checkup. That is very strange. I don't like them pregnant bc of my history i don't want anyone down there. LOL Big hugs! Order a doppler and have a homebirth.

Macyllehub
03-02-2010, 06:02 AM
I've never had a pap smear with pregnancy.... never. I'm also a non-hospital birther though for my second and third children. Even with my first though, I didnt have a pap smear because it had been done in the last 6 months.

:hugs:

Macyllehub
03-02-2010, 06:04 AM
Yes, a pap can show a false positive result during pregnancy. Pregnancy causes changes in the cervix and the ectocervical cells that can show as "atypical" on a pap. The only "infection" that can be tested for on a pap is HPV and that is also the only thing that causes cervical cancer. A family history of cervical cancer is irrelevant.

There is no reason that a pap would HAVE TO be repeated in early pregnancy. It is NOT an essential part of prenatal care. I like it if my ladies have had gonorrhea and chlamydia cultures, but most don't. I can do paps if they want them and I can do the cultures if they want them, but 99% refuse. That's ok by me.

I also see a dr., and I have done NO tests or procedures other than the initial bloodwork (which I require from all my clients too). My doc is cool with it.

To the OP, find a midwife. It sounds like the type of care you'd prefer.

Also, "prenatal care" as done in MOST OB offices around the country is a reactive type of medicine meant to deal with problems as they arise, not a preventative type of care. There is an interesting book about this called Expecting Trouble: What Expectant Parents Should Know About Prenatal Care in America by Thomas Strong.

:thumbsup:

susykins
03-02-2010, 06:14 AM
I am just curious I have also had to have a HIV test ALL of my pregnancies and I also have been with the same man 12 years......did I have to the test? For some reason I thought it was a law? Maybe just in my state??? Just wondering -sorry fro hjacking

BTW- I would see if you could have the Planned Parenthood Dr would be willing to send the record over to a new OB since they don't do any prenatal care? Then I would call around and let the office know that I had a pap VERY recently. Granted I always have to have a PAP within 6 months. I also know that some cancers/cells tend to grow more during pregnancy-ie- breast cancer tend to grow more during pregnancy. HTH and Good luck :)

In New York State all pregnant women are required to have an HIV test. However, you can sign a waiver to refuse it. HOWEVER, if you sign the waive, your baby is automatically given a dose of drugs i "case" you are HIV positive and refused the blood test. So, in NY, I'd much rather get the blood test on me (a 2 second prick o the arm), than to put my baby through drugs hours within birth, that I know he doesn't need.

negrapy
03-02-2010, 06:26 AM
I wouldnt have a pap smear while pregnant. I had one just prior to my first pregnancy and one just prior to my second - its only a short span between the two. I decline with my third. I dont think its that super wise to put foriegn objects next to my cervix and stratch around when i am pregnant

and yes you can decline HIV blood testing and lots of other std blood tests. I pay everything out of pocket and its not okay with me to test me for things i know i dont have and am not at risk for - just bc someone decided to make it standard protocol.

susykins
03-02-2010, 06:28 AM
I don't know what to do anymore. This is the third doctor that refuses to treat me if I refuse the pap smear. I had a pap smear in September! I was told that since I'm over 30 I only need a pap smear every 3 years now. I'm 15+ weeks pregnant and I have had no prenatal care at all because I refuse to have another pap smear. I want to hear my babies heartbeat and see him/her on an ultrasound. Is there anything I can do or do I have to forgo prenatal care all together? I absolutely will not do a pap smear and that's that.

I swear this is one big insurance scam. The doctors want as much out of your insurance as they can possibly get. I don't have the energy to keep looking for a cooperative doctor. Anyone have a similiar experience? What did you do to beat the system?

It's not the insurance, it's the doctor. Ask to sign a waiver. Dont skip on prenatal care just because you refuse this test though.

That said, if I was told I could do only one procedure during pregnancy and was given a choice between seeing the baby on screen and the pap smear for abnormalities, I thik now, after having my 1st child already, I'd choose the pap. You can buy a cheap stethoscope/baby heart beat monitor at walmart or babies r us and check the heartbeat yourself. Besides, those images o the screen don't always tell you anything (they can be fuzzy, inaccurate, etc.). I was told I was going to have a big baby and should consider a csection if it was past my due date. I changed docs at 37 weeks (for this reason, along with many other reasons) and the new doc also said I was going to have a big baby, but he let me go past my due date. I gave birth 2 weeks past my due date, and he was under 7 pounds. The ultrasound sai he was alot bigger but it was wrong. Had I had a csectio at 40 weeks, he would likely have ended up in the nicu for being too little.

Plus, they don't yet know what long term effects ultrasouds can have on a fetus. Just 40 years ago xrays were standard to check fetal position, and now we know better. I wish I had not had so many ultrasounds with my boy, but I had not considered the lack of info on the effects of u/s on the unborn child.

I did refuse to be checked for dilation during my prenatal visits. I didn't feel dilation was an indication of anything that would help the baby. But I had to keep telling the doc "no" because they kept wanting to check. So, just find a doc that will let you waive it, or just do it.

luckymum
03-02-2010, 06:34 AM
I NEVER had a pap (or was it even advised)???

Good Luck Mama, it's your body your choice!

Tell them you will sign a waiver? A good doctor shoud support you not banish you!!!!!!!


ETA: I never even had an internal while pregnant. Why would you want to risk any bacteria introduction unless a RED FLAG has been raised.

haydn'smommy
03-02-2010, 06:40 AM
Yes, a pap can show a false positive result during pregnancy. Pregnancy causes changes in the cervix and the ectocervical cells that can show as "atypical" on a pap. The only "infection" that can be tested for on a pap is HPV and that is also the only thing that causes cervical cancer. A family history of cervical cancer is irrelevant.

There is no reason that a pap would HAVE TO be repeated in early pregnancy. It is NOT an essential part of prenatal care. I like it if my ladies have had gonorrhea and chlamydia cultures, but most don't. I can do paps if they want them and I can do the cultures if they want them, but 99% refuse. That's ok by me.

I also see a dr., and I have done NO tests or procedures other than the initial bloodwork (which I require from all my clients too). My doc is cool with it.

To the OP, find a midwife. It sounds like the type of care you'd prefer.

Also, "prenatal care" as done in MOST OB offices around the country is a reactive type of medicine meant to deal with problems as they arise, not a preventative type of care. There is an interesting book about this called Expecting Trouble: What Expectant Parents Should Know About Prenatal Care in America by Thomas Strong.

Not true. I use ThinPrep in my office and can test for HPV, HSV, Chlamydia, and Gonorrhea all from the same spatula/brush and container.

PatchworkPeddler
03-02-2010, 07:36 AM
I am just curious I have also had to have a HIV test ALL of my pregnancies and I also have been with the same man 12 years......did I have to the test? For some reason I thought it was a law? Maybe just in my state??? Just wondering -sorry fro hjacking

BTW- I would see if you could have the Planned Parenthood Dr would be willing to send the record over to a new OB since they don't do any prenatal care? Then I would call around and let the office know that I had a pap VERY recently. Granted I always have to have a PAP within 6 months. I also know that some cancers/cells tend to grow more during pregnancy-ie- breast cancer tend to grow more during pregnancy. HTH and Good luck :)

My midwife said that they test for HIV because they'll be working with my blood and they need to know whether to take extra precaution. Even though YOU KNOW you've been with the same man, and he hasn't cheated, the nurses/DR don't KNOW that. It's nothing against you at all, they just want to be sure to be on the safe side.

L&A'smommy
03-02-2010, 07:43 AM
In New York State all pregnant women are required to have an HIV test. However, you can sign a waiver to refuse it. HOWEVER, if you sign the waive, your baby is automatically given a dose of drugs i "case" you are HIV positive and refused the blood test. So, in NY, I'd much rather get the blood test on me (a 2 second prick o the arm), than to put my baby through drugs hours within birth, that I know he doesn't need.

Crap I didn't know they could do that!! I am in PA and refused the HIV test. I wonder if they are going to try to pump the baby full of crap and not tell me!

dragondance
03-02-2010, 07:48 AM
I'd try for a midwife. They tend to be less intervention-happy. Refusing you prenatal care because you won't repeat your pap until after your birth is like the docs who refuse to treat your kids because moms don't vaccinate on schedule. A lot of moms here are upset that you won't just get one so you can get prenatal care, but I'm surprised then that no one is mad that three separate care providers would rather you not have prenatal care than wait a few months on a pap when you just had one, putting procedure ahead of your baby :headscratch:. Midwifes are usually a lot better at working with moms and not doing things "just because." I put off my pap with my midwives until post-partum. :hugs::hugs:

PatchworkPeddler
03-02-2010, 08:03 AM
I don't know what to do anymore. This is the third doctor that refuses to treat me if I refuse the pap smear. I had a pap smear in September! I was told that since I'm over 30 I only need a pap smear every 3 years now. I'm 15+ weeks pregnant and I have had no prenatal care at all because I refuse to have another pap smear. I want to hear my babies heartbeat and see him/her on an ultrasound. Is there anything I can do or do I have to forgo prenatal care all together? I absolutely will not do a pap smear and that's that.

I swear this is one big insurance scam. The doctors want as much out of your insurance as they can possibly get. I don't have the energy to keep looking for a cooperative doctor. Anyone have a similiar experience? What did you do to beat the system?


Have you sat down with your DR and had a heart-to-heart explaining your side of things and your concerns? Has he/she sat down with you and explained WHY you even HAVE to have this? Are there any middle-grounds there?

I know you're the mom, you're the pregnant one. Not them. They should respect your wishes. But, they do have the medical background and they know what is necessary and what is not. Yes, they might go overboard sometimes but it's better to be safe than sorry. If your insurance will pay for it anyway, it's not inconveniencing you but an hour (if that) of your time just to say "I TOLD you the test would come back negative!!" and go on with your prenatal care (which is BEST for your BABY and YOU).

If it were a more intrusive test that's a whole different ball game IMO. There are ways to treat positive results from a pap test to make it not effect the baby. Medicine, etc. can't change the results of a test such as the Down's Syndrome test (that can come out wrong anyways). Tests like that--I'd say stick to your guns. But a pap or something else that could possibly keep your baby safe from harm (even though you know the baby's not in harm's way)? I say just do it. It's better to be safe... And be able to say "I told you so!" when the results are back :giggle2:

aecryan
03-02-2010, 08:10 AM
I refused the HIV test with all 3 pregnancies. I had a test shortly after dh and I starting dating. OB didn't treat it like a big deal. I am in OK.

To the OP, I would get the pap but that's me. I hope you can get it worked out. :hugs:

cakeandbubbly
03-02-2010, 08:16 AM
I just want to clear up a few things I've read. It's so nice of all of you guys to share your wisdom. I really appreciate it. You all rock!!

First, with all 3 doctors I explained that pelvic exams with their hands would be fine, I can bear the pain. But, any plastic or metal foreign object going up inside my jay-jay I would have to object to. I can't explain to everyone my problem with this, I just can't tolerate it. In the birthing room with my daughter they put a long stick inside me to break my water. I vomited for 3 hours after that. It's just too disturbing to me. The thought of a plastic or metal probe that's been inside EVERY woman in Oakland county and then auto-claved? I don't expect everyone to understand, i just can't handle it, personally.

Second, I have no objections to signing any waiver at all and I made that clear at every appointment. It just wasn't good enough for any of them.

I really think that they feel they NEED the extra $600 or so they will recieve from the excess exams.

Third, to all you home-birthing mommies, I didn't think I would have the guts to go through with this myself. But after reading how positive your experiences were, and comparing that to the 30 hours of pure torture and torment I went through in the hospital birthing my daughter, I'm going to give this much extra thought. I think I can do it. I think it may be better for me and my baby.

Kaboom
03-02-2010, 08:29 AM
My midwife said that they test for HIV because they'll be working with my blood and they need to know whether to take extra precaution. Even though YOU KNOW you've been with the same man, and he hasn't cheated, the nurses/DR don't KNOW that. It's nothing against you at all, they just want to be sure to be on the safe side.

Standard precautions are (SHOULD BE) taken with EVERY patient seen - there should be no need for doctors or nurses to know what diseases a person has because they should already be protecting themselves. It's one of the first things taught to anyone in the healthcare related fields.

To the OP - whether you have valid reasons or not is irrelevent. If you don't want something done to your body, you should have the option of declining them - period. It is not up to others to decide what is best for your body, or for what reasons you made the decesion it is based upon. In the end, we are all responsible for ourselves and our babies, and that responsibility CANNOT be passed on to the doctor (or other HCP). We, as mothers, DECIDE.

crochetingmama
03-02-2010, 08:37 AM
:hugs: I hope everything works out for you.

m0mof2bratz
03-02-2010, 08:40 AM
I had one about 6 months before I was prego with #2 and while prego with #2 they found a wart on my cervix (seriously have no clue how) but they did a colposcopy to make sure everything was normal and then when I went into labor and cervix dilated the wart disappeared! Also it is a malpractice issue if they do not do one, if some ways down the road they find something and it might have been prevented now, it might be grounds for malpractice lawsuit, its just the doctors covering thier butts! I am not sure why you are refusing?

Prettylocks
03-02-2010, 08:42 AM
I didn't consent to having a pap during my 3rd pg. I told them I would do it after the baby was born at the 6 week appt and didn't get kicked out. While I was expecting my second, the OB made a big deal over it, so I did one, and asked for the results at the next appt, and the same OB said, "It was inconclusive, but nothing to worry about, it often is for pregenant women... we'll give you another at your six week apppt or whenever."
A pap smear during pregnancy is not a prerequisite for a healthy baby.
I think many OBs just feel the need to squash any form of dissent. They want patients to just go along with everything little thing. I am sure that makes it is easier for the doc, but I am looking out for the best interest of myself and my baby.
If I were you, I would start looking for a midwife. :goodvibes:

Momma2CuddleBugs
03-02-2010, 08:54 AM
I didn't consent to having a pap during my 3rd pg. I told them I would do it after the baby was born at the 6 week appt and didn't get kicked out. While I was expecting my second, the OB made a big deal over it, so I did one, and asked for the results at the next appt, and the same OB said, "It was inconclusive, but nothing to worry about, it often is for pregenant women... we'll give you another at your six week apppt or whenever."
A pap smear during pregnancy is not a prerequisite for a healthy baby.
I think many OBs just feel the need to squash any form of dissent. They want patients to just go along with everything little thing. I am sure that makes it is easier for the doc, but I am looking out for the best interest of myself and my baby.
If I were you, I would start looking for a midwife. :goodvibes:

:yeahthat: I'm finding lately that alot of doctors (be it OB or pediatrician -- which is my current battle) want you to have a *smile and nod* type of attitude and be agreeable to everything they say. I wish you the best, OP, in finding what is right for you. You should NOT be subjected to something that is so harsh on you. :hugs: I would definitely try to look for a midwife at this point.

fish3737
03-02-2010, 09:08 AM
i have always refused pregnant and my mw just says they will do one at my 6 week pp checkup. That is very strange. I don't like them pregnant bc of my history i don't want anyone down there. LOL Big hugs! Order a doppler and have a homebirth.

I felt the same way about not wanting anyone messing around down there with my history of losses. I had a Pap in the last year that was fine (never had one that wasn't). They wanted to do the STD thing and I just did a urine or blood test instead (I can't remember which it was) but I was already peeing and getting my bloodwork tested.

They were fine with it. It was an OB. No one has said anything since. I'm delivering at a hospital.

:headscratch:

That is strange!!!

You are in Oakland??? I would think they would be fairly progressive!!!

Sorry you are dealing with this!

mgmsrk
03-02-2010, 10:26 AM
I just want to clear up a few things I've read. It's so nice of all of you guys to share your wisdom. I really appreciate it. You all rock!!

First, with all 3 doctors I explained that pelvic exams with their hands would be fine, I can bear the pain. But, any plastic or metal foreign object going up inside my jay-jay I would have to object to. I can't explain to everyone my problem with this, I just can't tolerate it. In the birthing room with my daughter they put a long stick inside me to break my water. I vomited for 3 hours after that. It's just too disturbing to me. The thought of a plastic or metal probe that's been inside EVERY woman in Oakland county and then auto-claved? I don't expect everyone to understand, i just can't handle it, personally.

Second, I have no objections to signing any waiver at all and I made that clear at every appointment. It just wasn't good enough for any of them.

I really think that they feel they NEED the extra $600 or so they will recieve from the excess exams.




Itís my understanding that virtually all PPís offer full health and pre natal care, I remember when mine changed in the mid 90ís.

You canít tolerate a pap? But you just had one? They use one use brushes and scrapers the only thing that may be reused would be the speculum, many drís do use the disposables or you could request it.

Most germs pass via unwashed or improperly washed hands. I would worry more about hands then sterilized instruments.

If you agree to do all the STD and other disease testing thy may drop the pap issues.

The problems with waivers and liability is they generally donít hold up in court so many DRís donít want to risk not covering their arses. Canít really blame them.

bluedaisyma
03-02-2010, 10:32 AM
i have always refused pregnant and my mw just says they will do one at my 6 week pp checkup. That is very strange. I don't like them pregnant bc of my history i don't want anyone down there. LOL Big hugs! Order a doppler and have a homebirth.
yeah, what she said

I just want to clear up a few things I've read. It's so nice of all of you guys to share your wisdom. I really appreciate it. You all rock!!

First, with all 3 doctors I explained that pelvic exams with their hands would be fine, I can bear the pain. But, any plastic or metal foreign object going up inside my jay-jay I would have to object to. I can't explain to everyone my problem with this, I just can't tolerate it. In the birthing room with my daughter they put a long stick inside me to break my water. I vomited for 3 hours after that. It's just too disturbing to me. The thought of a plastic or metal probe that's been inside EVERY woman in Oakland county and then auto-claved? I don't expect everyone to understand, i just can't handle it, personally.

Second, I have no objections to signing any waiver at all and I made that clear at every appointment. It just wasn't good enough for any of them.

I really think that they feel they NEED the extra $600 or so they will recieve from the excess exams.

Third, to all you home-birthing mommies, I didn't think I would have the guts to go through with this myself. But after reading how positive your experiences were, and comparing that to the 30 hours of pure torture and torment I went through in the hospital birthing my daughter, I'm going to give this much extra thought. I think I can do it. I think it may be better for me and my baby.
Really, if you just want to check on the baby and WANTED an unassisted birth, get a fetalscope and learn how to use it or a doppler. And once the baby moves all the time, you won't feel the need to hear the heartbeat to know all is well. At least I don't. I figure the punch the cervix and the foot in my ribs is assurance :D
:hugs: You could probably even do a birth center birth! My MW who does birth center and home births has never even asked me to get a pap or blood work. She said she could order any test I wanted. please note, she said tests that I, the MOTHER, wanted. Not what SHE wanted to do. Do what feels right to you, it's none of our business why you don't want a test....and my opinion is that if you didn't want it bc you were pregnant, you could get one after you had the baby if you were worried about cancer. I had an abormal pap with my 1st son....guess what? They can't do anything about it when pregnant, so AFTER he was born, they did a biopsy and everything was fine. Said they get lots of abnormal paps in pregnancy. With my 3 MW experiences, no paps that I can remember.....
Standard precautions are (SHOULD BE) taken with EVERY patient seen - there should be no need for doctors or nurses to know what diseases a person has because they should already be protecting themselves. It's one of the first things taught to anyone in the healthcare related fields.

To the OP - whether you have valid reasons or not is irrelevent. If you don't want something done to your body, you should have the option of declining them - period. It is not up to others to decide what is best for your body, or for what reasons you made the decesion it is based upon. In the end, we are all responsible for ourselves and our babies, and that responsibility CANNOT be passed on to the doctor (or other HCP). We, as mothers, DECIDE w
:thumbsup:

missykay
03-02-2010, 02:27 PM
I second trying to find a birth center. The MW I'm seeing just let me bring my results from a pap that was done in Jan '09. Likes others have said, they are just going to do one at my 6wk pp appt. Sorry you're dealing with all this stress right now! :hugs:

Ilovecaseyandcoh
03-02-2010, 02:36 PM
OP, off topic but whatever, I totally get sick from paps too. I almost pass out every time. I don't know what it is. I don't mind hands either. I feel better knowing that there is someone else out there like me. :)

Jinxiepie
03-02-2010, 02:45 PM
I was diagnosed with cervical cancer because of a pap the year befor I got preggo. I was having so many period pain issues I wasnt due for one and the dr did one, came back abnormal but further testing came back fine, dr wanted to redo pap in 3 months, second test came back clear, still wanted to test again, had another pap 3 months again later, this one came back with intro level cancer. I had a copolscopy and acid treatment and the cancer didnt come back. I was getting paps every 3 months for 2 years. not worth arguing about. No offense, but I think you are a little way off base if you are willing to forgo proper prenatal care just so you don't have to do this test. It's a medical necessity, not a scam.

lovemy3girls
03-02-2010, 02:52 PM
To the OP. I know what you're dealing with! I refused to allow them to be done after having 3 m/c within days of having a PAP. Not saying it caused them or anything like that just my experience. I ALWAYS have bad cramping and LOTS of bleeding, preggo or not. I have never had an abnormal result.

I have 2 girls who I refused my pap until I was past about 20 weeks or so. I carried them almost to term. They REALLY pushed for me to do it, but I refused. I did let them do cultures and all that, just no pap.

I am preggo now and have since switched OB's due to conflicting beliefs about induction (he induced early both times) and his managing my pregnancy. I am a high risk pregnancy for MANY reasons, non of which involve the need for me to have been treated like I was.

I have said I'll do it at my 6w PP, but honestly, we shall see :mrgreen:
My new OB has yet even to ask when my last one was done as we are still waiting on my records to be transferred. I am 22 or so (keep losing count!) pregnant and have held out getting one at all until after, if at all.

I feel your PAIN, believe me I do :) I hope you find the right OB/ MW/ or whoever to help you through this :)

cakeandbubbly
03-02-2010, 03:22 PM
I've never had period pain issues, or any female health issues for that matter. If I did I would definitely ask for a test.

How do I upload a link to this thread? I found some very useful info on kevinmd.com about how unnecessary paps are on low-risk women: only 11,000 women will contract cervical cancer in 2009, compared to 200,000 men who will get prostate cancer, and yet they are never even told about testing, let alone PUSHED into testing.
I'd like to share the article if I can figure out how to post a link.

Jinxipie, I really can't help but wonder if you got the hpv infection that caused your cancer from all those paps. That's too many paps. Just my thought, I'm not saying it's fact.

I was watching the news last night and I heard this man say "I'm 94 years old, I stay away from doctors"!

Not that I would ever want to be 94, but I can't help but wonder if he's on to something?

I don't know if i'm pasting this link correctly, but I'll try it anyway:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/informed-consent-missing-pap-smears-cervical-cancer-screening.html/comment-page-2

And yes, paps are to test for hpv, almost all cervical cancer is caused by hpv, almost every woman who has had sex will contract SOME FORM of hpv, but if you are abstinent or have the same partner always your chances of contracting the cancer-causing hpv are slim to none. Paps are unnecessary for any woman who fits into this category because you would be considered a low-risk woman.

girlymama0104
03-02-2010, 03:32 PM
I saw a midwife in an OB office with my last pregnancy. It was August when I first went to them, my last pap had been 13 months prior. The nurse had me undress for the pap but when the midwife came in she said I didn't need it since I had never had any issues and I would have one at my 6 week pp visit- so 1year 8 months between them.

My other 2 pregnancies I had to get one at my first visit, regardless of when my last one was.

I would say keep looking? I would not want another if I just had one in Sept., either.

fish3737
03-02-2010, 03:41 PM
I saw a midwife in an OB office with my last pregnancy. It was August when I first went to them, my last pap had been 13 months prior. The nurse had me undress for the pap but when the midwife came in she said I didn't need it since I had never had any issues and I would have one at my 6 week pp visit- so 1year 8 months between them.

My other 2 pregnancies I had to get one at my first visit, regardless of when my last one was.

I would say keep looking? I would not want another if I just had one in Sept., either.

Yep - this is pretty much identical to my situation. I'm on the every 3 years pap list anyway.

I agree - keep looking mama!!

Ilovecaseyandcoh
03-02-2010, 04:02 PM
And yes, paps are to test for hpv, almost all cervical cancer is caused by hpv, almost every woman who has had sex will contract SOME FORM of hpv, but if you are abstinent or have the same partner always your chances of contracting the cancer-causing hpv are slim to none. Paps are unnecessary for any woman who fits into this category because you would be considered a low-risk woman.

Unless your partner cheats. :yuck:

(Mine did not, but I had a friend who got HIV that way.)

jo_mama
03-02-2010, 06:34 PM
I've never had period pain issues, or any female health issues for that matter. If I did I would definitely ask for a test.

How do I upload a link to this thread? I found some very useful info on kevinmd.com about how unnecessary paps are on low-risk women: only 11,000 women will contract cervical cancer in 2009, compared to 200,000 men who will get prostate cancer, and yet they are never even told about testing, let alone PUSHED into testing.
I'd like to share the article if I can figure out how to post a link.

Jinxipie, I really can't help but wonder if you got the hpv infection that caused your cancer from all those paps. That's too many paps. Just my thought, I'm not saying it's fact.

I was watching the news last night and I heard this man say "I'm 94 years old, I stay away from doctors"!

Not that I would ever want to be 94, but I can't help but wonder if he's on to something?

I don't know if i'm pasting this link correctly, but I'll try it anyway:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/informed-consent-missing-pap-smears-cervical-cancer-screening.html/comment-page-2

And yes, paps are to test for hpv, almost all cervical cancer is caused by hpv, almost every woman who has had sex will contract SOME FORM of hpv, but if you are abstinent or have the same partner always your chances of contracting the cancer-causing hpv are slim to none. Paps are unnecessary for any woman who fits into this category because you would be considered a low-risk woman.

While this is all nice and conspiracy theory-y, you are saying you would rather be right than get proper prenatal care.

It sounds like you are offended by the implication that you need another pap because you and your partner are in a long-term relationship. Understand that an OB is not in that relationship and cannot bank his/her career on your word.

YOU want their services, and THEY require this test. They can get lots of other patients and you cannot seem to find another doctor. Do the math.

And while you are doing all that research into the danger of pap smears, why don't you also look into the controversy behind ultrasounds. If you're going to buy into the "unnecessary tests" agenda, why not go all in?

momof3boys1girl
03-02-2010, 06:49 PM
I used a mw and she didnt do one till after. But I had one about 6 months before at my obs office

SillyEllie
03-02-2010, 06:52 PM
I've never had period pain issues, or any female health issues for that matter. If I did I would definitely ask for a test.

How do I upload a link to this thread? I found some very useful info on kevinmd.com about how unnecessary paps are on low-risk women: only 11,000 women will contract cervical cancer in 2009, compared to 200,000 men who will get prostate cancer, and yet they are never even told about testing, let alone PUSHED into testing.
I'd like to share the article if I can figure out how to post a link.

Jinxipie, I really can't help but wonder if you got the hpv infection that caused your cancer from all those paps. That's too many paps. Just my thought, I'm not saying it's fact.

I was watching the news last night and I heard this man say "I'm 94 years old, I stay away from doctors"!

Not that I would ever want to be 94, but I can't help but wonder if he's on to something?

I don't know if i'm pasting this link correctly, but I'll try it anyway:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/informed-consent-missing-pap-smears-cervical-cancer-screening.html/comment-page-2

And yes, paps are to test for hpv, almost all cervical cancer is caused by hpv, almost every woman who has had sex will contract SOME FORM of hpv, but if you are abstinent or have the same partner always your chances of contracting the cancer-causing hpv are slim to none. Paps are unnecessary for any woman who fits into this category because you would be considered a low-risk woman.

I just want to throw out there I had cervical cancer cells growing on my cervic which they found through doing a pap. Luckily they treated it before it became cancer and I didn't have painful periods, I had no idea and I've had the same partner for a while. Sometimes it doesn't show up until later :thumbsup:

mamatje
03-02-2010, 06:55 PM
I think it's sad that doctors are backed into such a corner trying to protect themselves that they have to resort to refusing treatment to patients who don't want every test they insist on. It sounds like there are OBs out there who are willing to treat you without a pap, you just need to keep looking.

I don't believe it's purely financial at all, at least it's not about getting the $$$ from the exam. Just today I was talking with a friend who is studying nursing and even though anesthesiology nursing pays the highest, it's because it comes with the highest liability insurance premiums. People really underestimate how much doctors get sued nowadays.

In Europe it's highly unusual to get a pap while pregnant, in fact I didn't have one ever until I went to get a b/c rx here for the first time, and my dd was 3 by then. And most European countries have better maternal survival rates than the US. So it could easily be argued that they aren't necessary in order to provide optimal prenatal care. But if it's that or no prenatal care? I know which I'd choose.

Indigo
03-02-2010, 06:56 PM
I'm just curious.. why don't you want to have another one? I understand it's a hassle since you already had one recently... will you have to pay a lot?

Sorry you're having such a hard time. (((HUGS)))

Having an invassive test like that is very difficult for many, if not simply seriously unpleasant. Saying it's for STDs or infection does not make it better, a standard pap does not test for that, if they are doing more they need to get consent for those additional tests. Asking you if you have symptoms or are concerned about the possibility of an STD should suffice. Your blood work will tell them if you have hep or HIV so their safety is covered. Nothing in medicine is required,you have the right to refuse anything you don't feel is right for you.

Indigo
03-02-2010, 07:04 PM
part of the pap is doing testing for diseases that may harm the baby or lead to preterm labor. it's not just some scam. i honestly don't see the big deal in doing the exam. would you refuse blood testing to test for blood type/rh factor and refuse rhogam if you needed it and risk your baby dying in utero? really, this is no different. it's a test to make sure you don't have a problem that would harm your unborn child.

What other tests for what diseases? Pap tests the cervical cells. I find unnecessary invasive screenings to be a really big deal. I would find the blood test necessary, but a repeat pap not. I have no concern about stds, or infections. I will do a pap post partum, when the results would be different and more accurate anyway.

jodiemc
03-02-2010, 07:06 PM
I had had a pap 11 months prior to my first OB check up and the OB said it was ok because it had been within a year...maybe try a midwife?

Indigo
03-02-2010, 07:34 PM
I am in no way opposed to paps. I think they are valuable, life saving screenings. I am however completely in support of our right to informed consent. I am not okay with submitting to invasive medical procedures for the sake of routine. If I do not feel I need it, I have to right to say no. That is not non-compliance, that is informed non-consent. I know that I could develop cancer, so I will have the screenings yearly. I will not have 3 in one year simply because of pregnancies. I will not be tested, over and over again for STDs I have no risk factors for. Liability ends with my signature, saying, I understand my risks and I decline. Stripping women of control over their bodies is walking dangerously close to the assault line.

jossb
03-02-2010, 07:53 PM
I totally agree with you Indigo!

I am proud to say I live in Canada where choice over our bodies is 1st.

Mamatoabunch
03-02-2010, 09:30 PM
:Standard precautions are (SHOULD BE) taken with EVERY patient seen - there should be no need for doctors or nurses to know what diseases a person has because they should already be protecting themselves. It's one of the first things taught to anyone in the healthcare related fields.

To the OP - whether you have valid reasons or not is irrelevent. If you don't want something done to your body, you should have the option of declining them - period. It is not up to others to decide what is best for your body, or for what reasons you made the decesion it is based upon. In the end, we are all responsible for ourselves and our babies, and that responsibility CANNOT be passed on to the doctor (or other HCP). We, as mothers, DECIDE.

:yeahthat:

I find it amazing that so many say just do it, just have the pap. We, as patients, have every right to choose which procedures we want and do not want.

I second a midwife and homebirth. I have had 6 unassisted pregancies and have not had a pap in pregnancy since my first pregnancy more than 16 years ago.

fish3737
03-02-2010, 11:09 PM
While this is all nice and conspiracy theory-y, you are saying you would rather be right than get proper prenatal care.

It sounds like you are offended by the implication that you need another pap because you and your partner are in a long-term relationship. Understand that an OB is not in that relationship and cannot bank his/her career on your word.

YOU want their services, and THEY require this test. They can get lots of other patients and you cannot seem to find another doctor. Do the math.

And while you are doing all that research into the danger of pap smears, why don't you also look into the controversy behind ultrasounds. If you're going to buy into the "unnecessary tests" agenda, why not go all in?


She just had a pap in September (6 months ago) and all was good. You can test for the STDs with your initial blood/urine tests. So it isn't really necessary right?

I did this and my OB didn't even blink, but agreed that it wasn't necessary.

I think it is strange everyone is so upset. I would think it would be more important to actually get prenatal care in general.

haydn'smommy
03-03-2010, 03:35 AM
What other tests for what diseases? Pap tests the cervical cells. I find unnecessary invasive screenings to be a really big deal. I would find the blood test necessary, but a repeat pap not. I have no concern about stds, or infections. I will do a pap post partum, when the results would be different and more accurate anyway.

i believe i answered this in another post, but my office does all the testing from one thinprep container: hpv, chlamydia, and gonorrhea, and hsv if we think it's necessary.
and, it's not about the money. ob care is billed as a global fee. they get that fee regardless of what tests you choose to do or not do. the lab might get paid extra but that's not related to the doctor or the ob care.
i just don't understand being willing to forgo all prenatal care for the sake of making a statement. it's a 5 min test that cannot be any more painful than having a 9 lb baby come out of your hoo-ha.

sourpatch_babe
03-03-2010, 04:36 AM
That's weird. I didn't have a pap with my first pregnancy (OB) nor with my second (midwife, birth center birth).. The closest to a pap that I had was when I went to the OB at my first appt at six weeks that they did the transvaginal ultrasound because they said it was too early to do a regular ultrasound. That, besides being having a cervical check on my due date (baby was born day after) was the closest a doctor came to fiddling with my nether regions during my pregnancy.

ALLISOKOBX
03-03-2010, 05:24 AM
just wanted to say the same thing happened to me. If you want to avoid paps Home birth is the way to go. And if you wanna hear or see baby look into local ultra sound tech schools. In my area it cost ten dollars and they check everything heart, umbilical cord,size of baby and they can tell you the gender if you want

beckis
03-03-2010, 06:17 AM
It's NYS law that all mothers must be tested for HIV in the beginning of the pregnancy, then again at 36 weeks. Is it stupid? For me, yes. Do I go along with it? Yup. There are people who need it I guess, and it is to protect the baby once it's born if it needs treatment, and if you don't have it they will treat you as if you are HIV positive until proven otherwise.

I can understand having no insurance and not wanting to pay for it, but talk to the doc and tell them that. Having a pap in the beginning is to make sure everything is okay.

Oh, and an ultrasound costs WAYYYYYYY more than a pap - paying out of pocket for that will seriously hurt!

rosefall
03-03-2010, 08:08 AM
This thread is interesting to me because my midwife (in an OB practice) went into my first prenatal visit assuming I didn't want any testing. They did a culture to check for a yeast infection because I thought I might have one, but no PAP, no HIV test.

calind115
03-03-2010, 11:29 AM
They maybe able to do the full pap without the speculum, or they can use a virgin or child sized one. I have a friend who has the same problem but its more when her dh is deployed she gets to tight for an adult speculum, it causes alot of pain, bleeding and she has thrown up a few times.
Its also tests for things alot more important than just std's. It checks bacteria and yeast. A yeast infection even a minimal one that is long term can have serious damaging affects of the cervix and water bag, and it is possible to have one and not know it.
Plus having worked with a few OBs the way they described it is that the only way they trust the results is if they were taken themselves. How are they to know they are trustworthy results? Its all preventative and cautionary measures for the health of you and the baby.
IMHO its worth it for a little discomfort to be sure the baby is healthy.
Try to talk to a doc about it first, about the issues you have had see if there is a way around it. If they understand your persective they are probably more likely to be willing to treat you or even compromise on the issue.
Hope you get things figured out.

weintz8
03-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Just saw this on the iCan website;

Professional ethical guidelines state that a physician may only drop you from his care after giving you 30 days notice. This means that if you are within 30 days of your likely delivery date, your care provider cannot terminate your care. In addition, if you are pregnant and are outside of that 30 day time frame, your provider must give you a referral and ensure you are transferred to a specific provider. Physicians who fail to meet these guidelines may be charged with patient abandonment, which is grounds for malpractice and constitutes a violation of ethical conduct that could result in loss of licensure.

calind115
03-04-2010, 07:53 PM
Just saw this on the iCan website;

Professional ethical guidelines state that a physician may only drop you from his care after giving you 30 days notice. This means that if you are within 30 days of your likely delivery date, your care provider cannot terminate your care. In addition, if you are pregnant and are outside of that 30 day time frame, your provider must give you a referral and ensure you are transferred to a specific provider. Physicians who fail to meet these guidelines may be charged with patient abandonment, which is grounds for malpractice and constitutes a violation of ethical conduct that could result in loss of licensure.

That is a really good point but I think its only considered dropping they provide carein the first place. At least thats how I would understand it:dunno:

hopetc
03-05-2010, 01:16 AM
Keep looking around for another dr. I switched insurance halfway through my first pg and second dr never could get results from the pap I had with first dr. Second dr still needed/wanted to do one, but waited until maybe 36 weeks? No reason to disturb things down there without reason.

Most drs I've been to use the metal speculums, but one used the disposable plastic. Maybe you would prefer that? Still not pleasant, but not up anyone else's....

And I don't think drs get enough money from a pap to think it's a primary motivating factor....they do get some real money from surgeries such as c-sections.

mimanchibella
03-05-2010, 01:55 AM
I attempted to refuse the pap for this pregnancy, but failed... I DO have a problem with my cervix, which led to my first baby being born at 24 weeks, therefore I do not want any, and I mean ANY sort of extra irritation, only US monitoring without physical checks. Most doctors are just flat out asses, so I wish you tons of luck! I was only stuck as this OB is the only peri within a 2 hour drive. Good luck, I hope you find someone better!!

mgmsrk
03-05-2010, 06:01 AM
Just saw this on the iCan website;

Professional ethical guidelines state that a physician may only drop you from his care after giving you 30 days notice. This means that if you are within 30 days of your likely delivery date, your care provider cannot terminate your care. In addition, if you are pregnant and are outside of that 30 day time frame, your provider must give you a referral and ensure you are transferred to a specific provider. Physicians who fail to meet these guidelines may be charged with patient abandonment, which is grounds for malpractice and constitutes a violation of ethical conduct that could result in loss of licensure.

Thatís not going to apply. The OP doesnít seem to have a regular Dr who will do pre natal care. She is trying to hire a new Dr but is refusing their required screening exams so they are refusing to take her as a patient.

cedricsmom
03-05-2010, 07:02 AM
Your right to not have a pap, the doctors right not to treat you. Can you get the results of your pap to your doctor?
I cannot believe that so many people on here tell you to have a homebirth because you do not want a pap.

cwieberdink
03-05-2010, 07:31 AM
I cannot believe that so many people on here tell you to have a homebirth because you do not want a pap.

:giggle2:

You say that like a homebirth is a tremendously radical, dangerous, and strange alternative. Homebirth is a great, safe, viable alternative for people who want to take charge of their own health care and are low risk.

srkobus
03-05-2010, 07:37 AM
just my two cents:
i had a pap done when preggo with my second and the results were abnormal but only because they could not get enough cells. my mw told me this is a very common prob, so why do them at all?
also there is a difference between a pap smear (scrapping your cervix to check for abnormal cell growth) and swabs for std's, group b strep, infections etc. the swabs are less invasive and i believe can be done without using a speculum (what they use to open your...area...lol) therefore they are far more comfortable. maybe u could compromise and just do the infection check?

srkobus
03-05-2010, 07:43 AM
I am in no way opposed to paps. I think they are valuable, life saving screenings. I am however completely in support of our right to informed consent. I am not okay with submitting to invasive medical procedures for the sake of routine. If I do not feel I need it, I have to right to say no. That is not non-compliance, that is informed non-consent. I know that I could develop cancer, so I will have the screenings yearly. I will not have 3 in one year simply because of pregnancies. I will not be tested, over and over again for STDs I have no risk factors for. Liability ends with my signature, saying, I understand my risks and I decline. Stripping women of control over their bodies is walking dangerously close to the assault line.

:yeahthat:!

stayj
03-05-2010, 07:48 AM
I read most of the responses, but not all. The bottom line is, you are certainly welcome to refuse any treatment offered by a doctor. But at the same time, you are therefore subject to the doctor's refusal to treat YOU. They are doing what they think is right, appropriate, and in your best interests. And if you disagree, that is your right (I don't agree--you are not a doctor yourself so you have no clue why they are doing what they are doing). But don't be all high and mighty-"the doctors all refuse to see me!!!" when it is really YOU making that decision. They do not have to see you under your terms if they deem your terms to be inappropriate or dangerous (and possibly leading to liability on their part).

maddies.mom
03-05-2010, 07:59 AM
they are standard for my OB office too... didn't make any difference in my co-pay, so if you have insurance... you shouldn't have to pay any more than usual... once I started going for OB care instead of GYN... it was one sum to pay for a deductible, then I was done. Didn't matter if I went in for a regular baby check or if something was wrong and I went to L&D....
I agree with other ppl... definitely not just for std's - I'm a nurse; and the last thing I would want missed is abnormal cells in my reproductive system!! I want more babies... not undiagnosed/missed problems!!

massbb2
03-05-2010, 08:03 AM
:giggle2:

You say that like a homebirth is a tremendously radical, dangerous, and strange alternative. Homebirth is a great, safe, viable alternative for people who want to take charge of their own health care and are low risk.

Homebirth may be a great option for someone who's had prenatal care. Assuming she hasn't, she has no idea what to expect. Baby could be breech, could have health issues no one knows about.

starsrmndmeofyou
03-05-2010, 08:10 AM
I read most of the responses, but not all. The bottom line is, you are certainly welcome to refuse any treatment offered by a doctor. But at the same time, you are therefore subject to the doctor's refusal to treat YOU. They are doing what they think is right, appropriate, and in your best interests. And if you disagree, that is your right (I don't agree--you are not a doctor yourself so you have no clue why they are doing what they are doing). But don't be all high and mighty-"the doctors all refuse to see me!!!" when it is really YOU making that decision. They do not have to see you under your terms if they deem your terms to be inappropriate or dangerous (and possibly leading to liability on their part).

Very well written and I agree at 100% -

1sttimemommy
03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
Since it's been brought up that insurance should cover it, that's not necessarily true. Some insurances cover 1/year and that's it. So if they do it again the OP may be billed for something that is unnecessary since she's already had one.

Mamatoabunch
03-05-2010, 12:41 PM
Homebirth may be a great option for someone who's had prenatal care. Assuming she hasn't, she has no idea what to expect. Baby could be breech, could have health issues no one knows about.

I have had 8 HB's, 6 of which I did my own prenatal care, as I saw fit. HB is not just for someone receiving prenatal care from an OB or midwife. I can certainly tell if my baby is breech or not as well as many other things normally thought that only a midwife or OB can handle.

TwinKristi
03-05-2010, 01:55 PM
I had one about 6 months before I was prego with #2 and while prego with #2 they found a wart on my cervix (seriously have no clue how) but they did a colposcopy to make sure everything was normal and then when I went into labor and cervix dilated the wart disappeared! Also it is a malpractice issue if they do not do one, if some ways down the road they find something and it might have been prevented now, it might be grounds for malpractice lawsuit, its just the doctors covering thier butts! I am not sure why you are refusing?

I am in no way opposed to paps. I think they are valuable, life saving screenings. I am however completely in support of our right to informed consent. I am not okay with submitting to invasive medical procedures for the sake of routine. If I do not feel I need it, I have to right to say no. That is not non-compliance, that is informed non-consent. I know that I could develop cancer, so I will have the screenings yearly. I will not have 3 in one year simply because of pregnancies. I will not be tested, over and over again for STDs I have no risk factors for. Liability ends with my signature, saying, I understand my risks and I decline. Stripping women of control over their bodies is walking dangerously close to the assault line.

:yeahthat: If OP signs a waiver stating that she refuses the PAP than there is no liability or way she can possibly test positive for something they could have picked up with that PAP and sue them. That's the whole point of the waiver releasing liability! Right?

i believe i answered this in another post, but my office does all the testing from one thinprep container: hpv, chlamydia, and gonorrhea, and hsv if we think it's necessary.
and, it's not about the money. ob care is billed as a global fee. they get that fee regardless of what tests you choose to do or not do. the lab might get paid extra but that's not related to the doctor or the ob care.
i just don't understand being willing to forgo all prenatal care for the sake of making a statement. it's a 5 min test that cannot be any more painful than having a 9 lb baby come out of your hoo-ha.

#1, that may be the case for YOU, but not all insurance companies. I have recv'd an itemized bill from my office charging for the pap. I also had to pay a co-pay for my lab work for the pap, 2 seperate charges completely. #2 I don't think you can accurately say what every office in the North American continent does with their billing and every insurance co. does with their billing. I worked insurance billing and found inconsistancies left and right!

I honestly cannot believe how many women just shrug off the amount of unnecessary care and tests done and meds given and blablabla. The list never ends! So many people think HB (and especially UC) is SOOO crazy and risky, yet they submit themselves to risk even more so by these unnecessary tests and medications. Every time you step foot in a hospital your life is literally on the line. I strongly believe that and have experienced my life almost taken from me at 21 because of Dr's "practicing" medicine and making a mistake that resulted in serious consequences. I HATE going to the Dr or hospital now and only do now when it's 100% necessary. I had all 5 of my babies in a hospital, I've been induced and seen the increase of complications and the intervention cycle that takes place. I had to be my own advocate or they would have done whatever they felt was necessary, reguardless of whether or not it really was. I refused an IFM when I had an epidural (first and last thank you!) and the MW was ready to just put one in because the external one wasn't able to stay as low as the baby was. The nurse knew my wishes on no IFM unless it was seriously needed and held the monitor in place to avoid the IFM. Had I not refused it, they would have put it in for NO REASON other than laziness!! Lazy dr's schedule unnecessary inductions and c-sections to fit their needs, not their patients', EVERY DAY!!
Homebirth or a birth center delivery is a low-risk mother's best bet to avoid unncessary interventions, tests, etc.

And about the NYS forcing mothers to have an HIV test or they will treat your baby for HIV... that's INSANE!! Thank GOD that NYS is almost the furthest from me. I would drive an hour or whatever it took to get out of state if I had no where else to live. In CA they would LIKE to have moms tested (like a PP said) to let your care providers know whether they should take extra precautions in preventing the spread of HIV but they sure as heck don't have to take anti-virals just because the mom didn't get tested, why should the baby?? I refused the HIV test and talked to my OB and L&D nurse and both agreed that I wasn't at risk (and was also tested in the past with previous pregnancies with that partner) so it was truly just for paper purposes. Even if you get tested around 8wks and deliver 32wks later, technically your spouse could still cheat on you and infect you with HIV... what good was that test at 8wks if you're worried about delivery 32wks later?? :headscratch: It just doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

And call me ignorant, selfish, etc... but I would 100% forego any prenatal testing if they were trying to force me to take tests I didn't need and refuse treatment if I didn't.

SillyEllie
03-06-2010, 12:08 PM
:giggle2:

You say that like a homebirth is a tremendously radical, dangerous, and strange alternative. Homebirth is a great, safe, viable alternative for people who want to take charge of their own health care and are low risk.

how do you know if you and your baby are low risk with out prenatal care :headscratch: weird. I have NO issues with homebirths since I wanted one with dd2 but dh did not feel comfortable with it so we chose to delivery in the birth center instead BUT the difference is I've had prenatal care from day 1 so a home birth would be a safe option for someone like myself but NOT for someone who has had NO prenatal care.

SillyEllie
03-06-2010, 12:10 PM
I read most of the responses, but not all. The bottom line is, you are certainly welcome to refuse any treatment offered by a doctor. But at the same time, you are therefore subject to the doctor's refusal to treat YOU. They are doing what they think is right, appropriate, and in your best interests. And if you disagree, that is your right (I don't agree--you are not a doctor yourself so you have no clue why they are doing what they are doing). But don't be all high and mighty-"the doctors all refuse to see me!!!" when it is really YOU making that decision. They do not have to see you under your terms if they deem your terms to be inappropriate or dangerous (and possibly leading to liability on their part).

:yeahthat:

cwieberdink
03-07-2010, 05:39 AM
how do you know if you and your baby are low risk with out prenatal care :headscratch: weird. I have NO issues with homebirths since I wanted one with dd2 but dh did not feel comfortable with it so we chose to delivery in the birth center instead BUT the difference is I've had prenatal care from day 1 so a home birth would be a safe option for someone like myself but NOT for someone who has had NO prenatal care.

What I actually said in this thread was suggesting she find a midwife and have a homebirth. I don't think MOST people suggesting homebirth were actually suggesting unassisted/unattended birth with no prenatal care. That's an assumption. Although, there are many women who are quite knowledgeable about pregnancy and birth and do have unassisted/unattended births and know if they are low risk or not. I know women who monitor the baby's growth/heart rate, their BP, their urine, etc. and know what the results mean.

Mamatoabunch
03-07-2010, 12:01 PM
What I actually said in this thread was suggesting she find a midwife and have a homebirth. I don't think MOST people suggesting homebirth were actually suggesting unassisted/unattended birth with no prenatal care. That's an assumption. Although, there are many women who are quite knowledgeable about pregnancy and birth and do have unassisted/unattended births and know if they are low risk or not. I know women who monitor the baby's growth/heart rate, their BP, their urine, etc. and know what the results mean.


Yes. I myself have had 7 UC's, last 6 doing my own prenatal care. When I mention the suggestion of HB, I am suggesting midwifery care unless someone specifically asks about UC. However, a women does not need a medical degree or years of midwifery training to determine her own risk w/ HB, UC or otherwise. Women are smart :)

aihley
03-07-2010, 12:45 PM
I have a productive suggestion...

If you would like care from an OB who does not REQUIRE a pap or any other invasive procedures, how about making a new post asking for OB recommendations for your geographic area? None of us know where you are so we really can't help solve your problem.

I totally understand the need to vent about things like this, but if you want some constructive help and not continued criticism, I'd ask for OB recommendations for your area. I had a good experience in Dalton, GA where the doctor never even suggested I might need a pap.

A new thread would also help remove some of the drama that's flared up in this thread.

Hope you find what you need, soon! :hugs:

cakeandbubbly
03-07-2010, 01:25 PM
[QUOTE=Mamatoabunch;9750888]Yes. I myself have had 7 UC's, last 6 doing my own prenatal care. When I mention the suggestion of HB, I am suggesting midwifery care unless someone specifically asks about UC. However, a women does not need a medical degree or years of midwifery training to determine her own risk w/ HB, UC or otherwise. Women are smart :)[

Darn straight we are!

cakeandbubbly
03-07-2010, 01:34 PM
Response to aihley: I have found a solution now. I took EVERYONE's advice and found a midwife whom I'll see on March 30. She is going to accept the results of all the exams I had done at PP in Sept and I might be having a birthing center birth since she doesn't do homebirths here.

She is a CNM with a masters degree and a bachelors degree. She's in her mid-50's, so I feel really comfortable there since she has 20 years experience!

I wish I had known about midwifes and birthing centers last time. I was induced with pitocin, labored terribly for 30 hours, and had no pain relief whatsoever. The pitocin made it 100% worse than it was supposed to be.

So, in response, not all of us mommies are as experienced as you guys and had I not come on here to rant and rave about my dreaded experiences with OB's and hospitals, I would never had searched out a midwife and learned about all this stuff (birthing centers, pitocin, I mean come on, they never just tell us about this stuff at the hospital). You think an OB would have clued me in? I really doubt it.

lilbitcrunchy
03-07-2010, 01:47 PM
Response to aihley: I have found a solution now. I took EVERYONE's advice and found a midwife whom I'll see on March 30. She is going to accept the results of all the exams I had done at PP in Sept and I might be having a birthing center birth since she doesn't do homebirths here.

She is a CNM with a masters degree and a bachelors degree. She's in her mid-50's, so I feel really comfortable there since she has 20 years experience!

I wish I had known about midwifes and birthing centers last time. I was induced with pitocin, labored terribly for 30 hours, and had no pain relief whatsoever. The pitocin made it 100% worse than it was supposed to be.

So, in response, not all of us mommies are as experienced as you guys and had I not come on here to rant and rave about my dreaded experiences with OB's and hospitals, I would never had searched out a midwife and learned about all this stuff (birthing centers, pitocin, I mean come on, they never just tell us about this stuff at the hospital). You think an OB would have clued me in? I really doubt it.

Glad you got it worked out :yay: Do your thang mama and I wish you a happy, healthy pregnancy and smooth delivery of your sweet baby! :goodvibes:

m0mof2bratz
03-07-2010, 01:56 PM
I am sorry your experience with pitocin was an awful one. I had labor induced with all 3 of my kids.
From the time my dr broke my water with pitocin I was in labor for 3 hours with one and 4 hours with the other 2. I had some meds for being nauseated and some stadal for the pain and slept through most of labor.

fish3737
03-07-2010, 02:48 PM
Glad you got it worked out :yay: Do your thang mama and I wish you a happy, healthy pregnancy and smooth delivery of your sweet baby! :goodvibes:

I second that Heather!!!

Good luck mama!!

AmeliasMum
03-07-2010, 03:01 PM
I FLAT refuse to have paps during pg because of the high rate of false "abnormal" results. Which leads to more invasive tests and treatment. Another reason I use my Chiro to order my u/s and lab work, and I avoid actual OB's. But, DH and I are rather hardcore when it comes to doing things on our own.

spacetygrss
03-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Glad you got it worked out :yay: Do your thang mama and I wish you a happy, healthy pregnancy and smooth delivery of your sweet baby! :goodvibes:


Here! Here! :thumbsup:

jveprek
03-07-2010, 03:11 PM
I have had 8 HB's, 6 of which I did my own prenatal care, as I saw fit. HB is not just for someone receiving prenatal care from an OB or midwife. I can certainly tell if my baby is breech or not as well as many other things normally thought that only a midwife or OB can handle.

What I actually said in this thread was suggesting she find a midwife and have a homebirth. I don't think MOST people suggesting homebirth were actually suggesting unassisted/unattended birth with no prenatal care. That's an assumption. Although, there are many women who are quite knowledgeable about pregnancy and birth and do have unassisted/unattended births and know if they are low risk or not. I know women who monitor the baby's growth/heart rate, their BP, their urine, etc. and know what the results mean.

Yes. I myself have had 7 UC's, last 6 doing my own prenatal care. When I mention the suggestion of HB, I am suggesting midwifery care unless someone specifically asks about UC. However, a women does not need a medical degree or years of midwifery training to determine her own risk w/ HB, UC or otherwise. Women are smart :)



I am, sadly, the exception to these rules. I was going to have a homebirth with Madi and had been seeing the midwife. We decided that we wanted to know if we were having a boy or girl, went in for an ultrasound, and found out she, my daughter, had spina bifida and hydrocephalus. I had to switch to a specialist, but thankfully, they had a midwife in the practice I was able to see most of the time. I had NO clue I was high risk (well, I wasn't at all, but my baby was). I did not feel any different, my intuition didn't tell me something was wrong, everything just felt normal. Had it not been for that ultrasound, I would have birthed her at home, most likely late, and it would have been a disaster. I am still sad I didn't get my homebirth, but I am thankful that I knew before hand and could take the measures needed to keep Madi safe. With that said though, I think homebirths are AMAZING and wish the US was more home-birth friendly.

Ok, that was wayyyyyyy off topic from the OP :giggle:

aihley
03-07-2010, 04:00 PM
Response to aihley: I have found a solution now. I took EVERYONE's advice and found a midwife whom I'll see on March 30. She is going to accept the results of all the exams I had done at PP in Sept and I might be having a birthing center birth since she doesn't do homebirths here.

She is a CNM with a masters degree and a bachelors degree. She's in her mid-50's, so I feel really comfortable there since she has 20 years experience!

I wish I had known about midwifes and birthing centers last time. I was induced with pitocin, labored terribly for 30 hours, and had no pain relief whatsoever. The pitocin made it 100% worse than it was supposed to be.

So, in response, not all of us mommies are as experienced as you guys and had I not come on here to rant and rave about my dreaded experiences with OB's and hospitals, I would never had searched out a midwife and learned about all this stuff (birthing centers, pitocin, I mean come on, they never just tell us about this stuff at the hospital). You think an OB would have clued me in? I really doubt it.

I'm glad you were able to find someone! :) It's so frustrating dealing with the "system." GL & wishing you a much better birthing experience this time around! :mrgreen:

jveprek
03-07-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm glad you were able to find someone! :) It's so frustrating dealing with the "system." GL & wishing you a much better birthing experience this time around! :mrgreen:

Ditto!! I'm so glad you found someone to work with you!

Catalytic
03-08-2010, 02:55 PM
:giggle2:

You say that like a homebirth is a tremendously radical, dangerous, and strange alternative. Homebirth is a great, safe, viable alternative for people who want to take charge of their own health care and are low risk.

I think homebirth is fantastic...with proper care. IMO, few are prepared, or will bother to prepare, for an unassisted pregnancy and childbirth.

In a situation where there is no prenatal care at all...sorry, have a pap already. I don't get the impression that OP is prepared to do unassisted.

Catalytic
03-08-2010, 03:05 PM
I have had 8 HB's, 6 of which I did my own prenatal care, as I saw fit. HB is not just for someone receiving prenatal care from an OB or midwife. I can certainly tell if my baby is breech or not as well as many other things normally thought that only a midwife or OB can handle.

I agree with you, and I don't have a problem with a UA homebirth, assuming mama is prepared and has educated herself. That wasn't the impression I got the from OP's posts, however.

rbutterfly13
03-08-2010, 03:19 PM
i am glad you have it figured out.

Pamplemousse
03-08-2010, 05:41 PM
That's crazy! I had a pap in March 09 with reproductive care, m/c and got pregnant in June. My doctor never made me have a pap in Aug/Sept when I went for prenatal care, and I was glad because I didn't want one for fear of stirring things up.
I live in Canada though, so the fewer tests they offer the more cost effective.

Saraneth
04-27-2010, 02:00 PM
Good for you, mama, for sticking to your ideals.

Seriously, though. You women are ridiculous. You should never get a pap smear when pregnant, the cells come up abnormal a good chunk of the time because you're pregnant. Then they tell you they need you to terminate the pregnancy or that you're going to NEED a hysterectomy immediately after labor because you are 'at risk', when most of the time, nothing is wrong. =/ Messing with the cervix in pregnancy is dangerous anyway, because it causes m/c alot of the time.

Besides, why would you get a pap when the CSA blood test is available?

And the whole prenatal care thing isn't that big of a deal. I didn't have prenatal care and I was fine. My child came out fine. =/

Good luck, mama.

jessesgirl
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
I didn't have a PAP smear with my first son...or this pregnancy. They never asked me to do one or anything. I've had dysplasia removed several times, but they never made me do a PAP in early pregnancy.

mommyshanti
04-27-2010, 04:29 PM
lol! You're absolutely right actually! :giggle2: I've had no paps and no cervical checks. Chances are the time my pants will come off will be for the birth!

i just think ladies that have ob's or even CNM are used to getting their vajajays prodded:giggle:

some reasons not to especially if you have already had one recently
introducing bacteria which can be harmful and chance of mc

but yes doc's can let you go for any reason and at that point it's best for both parties because it would just be butting heads the whole time as you do not agree on important issues

so just move along to another doc or midwife and get records from planned parenthood:goodvibes: