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-   -   Anyone else leave their childbearing up to God? (http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1405770)

Punkin 04-23-2014 07:17 PM

Re: Anyone else leave their childbearing up to God?
 
I have a question....I've read lots of this discussion about NFP and the Catholic Church. To begin withI have a basic disagreement with the fact of Vatican II- presided over by a sitting pope elected by the college o council and precoded over by the magesterium of the church....I have a BASIC disagreement with this not being called a valid council.

I also have a basic disagreement with the idea that those practicing NFP are practicing sinful behavior. EVERY case is different. We are NOT in everyone's bedrooms and most certainly we do not able to see Into the soul and how that couple is following the Church and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Judgement is reserved for God in the absense of direct defiance of chirch teaching. There are INDEED serious reasons (and the word "Serious"indeed makes all the difference) why a person must make an effort to seek God's will in their childbearing that may include a decision to abstain from marital relations during certain times. To be chaste in a spirit of love is holy. It has always been so in the church. I object totally to the label of NFP as sinful when used for serious reasons.

Answer me this: and understand I give this case, my own, merely as one example. I have a potentially life threatening placenta condition that develops In my pregnancies (each pregnancy and each placenta being different there is no way to know for sure how serious each case will be...each of mine have been more serious than the last...a discouraging and hard to ignore trend). I have been told every which way to be sterilized or have my husband sterilized by doctors and family members begging me and even RELIGIOUS in the church counseling me. My own dear husband was afraid to come near Me for many months afraid he would essential be killing me. He actually told me this (horrible to hear!!), by the grace of the Holy spirit we have moved past this AND we still practice a very basic form of family planning revolving around very long periods of chastity. We also experienced a pregnancy but we both embraced Gods will and trusted him to protect me. The day after I went before an image of Divine Mercy and recieved the blessing of St. Blaise I miscarried. I am saddened but know it is Gods will. I very much would like more children but I also know that to NOT attempt to use some form of NFP would be to me and to my husband and family to be not valuing the life God gave me and to not be protectiv of my famiky. It would be akin to walking onto a freeway with cars moving at 60 miles an hour and trusting God to protect me rather than trusting to the good judgment and daily grace he gives me and the gift of free will to exercise value over my own life and that of my family and to NOT put myself in that position in the first place. Would that not, indeed, be more like DARING God? God if you care about me so much then save me!! Like the devil daring Jesus to throw himself from a mountain. Well my answer is the same as his: " Do not put the Lord your God to the test"

So I ask you all....do I belong in this thread? Am I leaving my child bearing up to God when I practice periods of difficult chastity with my husband? I am still open to life...all the pieces are still there..my recent Miscarriage is sad proof of that. My heart is there. Part of me does long for another child. But yet. I will not test God in this matter. I will do what I can and what Holy mother church permits me and encourages me to do in this serious case. Am I being sinful in this decision? No. Of that I am sure.I write all this because I would just be so saddened at the thought that another woman reading this thread would be going through a Similaxperience and read a line here or there about her choice to use NFP for serious reasons and be shamed into thinking this hard choice sinful or worse yet to lose her OWN life trying to maintain a pure standard of being "open to life".....

I must say I hope I have expressed all this with a spirit of Love as it was intended and do not intend to direct my comments to any one person ...just to offer them up for all to consider...

christina2babyboys 04-23-2014 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 17350637)
I have a question....I've read lots of this discussion about NFP and the Catholic Church. To begin withI have a basic disagreement with the fact of Vatican II- presided over by a sitting pope elected by the college o council and precoded over by the magesterium of the church....I have a BASIC disagreement with this not being called a valid council.

I also have a basic disagreement with the idea that those practicing NFP are practicing sinful behavior. EVERY case is different. We are NOT in everyone's bedrooms and most certainly we do not able to see Into the soul and how that couple is following the Church and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Judgement is reserved for God in the absense of direct defiance of chirch teaching. There are INDEED serious reasons (and the word "Serious"indeed makes all the difference) why a person must make an effort to seek God's will in their childbearing that may include a decision to abstain from marital relations during certain times. To be chaste in a spirit of love is holy. It has always been so in the church. I object totally to the label of NFP as sinful when used for serious reasons.

Answer me this: and understand I give this case, my own, merely as one example. I have a life threatening placenta condition that develops In my pregnancies. I have been told every which way to be sterilized or have my husband sterilized by doctors and family members and ven RELIGIOUS in the churcg nearly begging me. My own dear husband was afraid to come near Me for many months afraid he would essential be killing me. He actually told me this (horrible to hear!!), by the grace of the Holy spirit we have moved past this AND we still practice a very basic form of family planning revolving around very long periods of chastity. We also experienced a pregnancy but we both embraced Gods will and trusted him to protect me. The day after I went before an image of Divine Mercy and recieved the blessing of St. Blaise I miscarried. I am saddened but know it is Gods will. I very much would like more children but I also know that to NOT attempt to use some form of NFP would be to me and to my husband and family to be not valuing the life God gave me and to not be protectiv of my famiky. It would be akin to walking onto a freeway with cars moving at 60 miles an hour and trusting God to protect me rather than trusting to the good judgment and daily grace he gives me and the gift of free will to exercise value over my own life and that of my family and to NOT put myself in that position in the first place. Would that not, indeed, be more like DARING God? God if you care about me so much then save me!! Like the devil daring Jesus to throw himself from a mountain. Well my answer is the same as his: " Do not put the Lord your God to the test"

So I ask you all....do I belong in this thread? Am I leaving my child bearing up to God when I practice periods o difficult chastity with my husband? I am still open to life...all the pieces are still there..my recent Miscarriage is sad proof of that. My heart is there. Part of me des long for another child. But yet. I will not test God in this matter. I will do what I can and what Holy mother church permits me and encourages me to do in this serious case. Am I being sinful in this decision? No. Of that I am sure.I write all this because I would just be so saddened at the thought that another woman reading this thread would be going through a Similaxperience and read a line here or there about her choice to use NFP for serious reasons and be shamed into thinking this hard choice sinful or worse yet to lose her OWN life trying to maintain a pure standard of being "open to life".....

I must say I hope I have expressed all this with a spirit of Love as it was intended and do not intend to direct my comments to any one person ...just to offer them up for all to consider...

I am NOT Catholic so I have no idea. Maybe yall should start your own thread for Catholic mamas. :)

christina2babyboys 04-23-2014 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 17350637)
I have a question....I've read lots of this discussion about NFP and the Catholic Church. To begin withI have a basic disagreement with the fact of Vatican II- presided over by a sitting pope elected by the college o council and precoded over by the magesterium of the church....I have a BASIC disagreement with this not being called a valid council.

I also have a basic disagreement with the idea that those practicing NFP are practicing sinful behavior. EVERY case is different. We are NOT in everyone's bedrooms and most certainly we do not able to see Into the soul and how that couple is following the Church and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Judgement is reserved for God in the absense of direct defiance of chirch teaching. There are INDEED serious reasons (and the word "Serious"indeed makes all the difference) why a person must make an effort to seek God's will in their childbearing that may include a decision to abstain from marital relations during certain times. To be chaste in a spirit of love is holy. It has always been so in the church. I object totally to the label of NFP as sinful when used for serious reasons.

Answer me this: and understand I give this case, my own, merely as one example. I have a life threatening placenta condition that develops In my pregnancies. I have been told every which way to be sterilized or have my husband sterilized by doctors and family members and ven RELIGIOUS in the churcg nearly begging me. My own dear husband was afraid to come near Me for many months afraid he would essential be killing me. He actually told me this (horrible to hear!!), by the grace of the Holy spirit we have moved past this AND we still practice a very basic form of family planning revolving around very long periods of chastity. We also experienced a pregnancy but we both embraced Gods will and trusted him to protect me. The day after I went before an image of Divine Mercy and recieved the blessing of St. Blaise I miscarried. I am saddened but know it is Gods will. I very much would like more children but I also know that to NOT attempt to use some form of NFP would be to me and to my husband and family to be not valuing the life God gave me and to not be protectiv of my famiky. It would be akin to walking onto a freeway with cars moving at 60 miles an hour and trusting God to protect me rather than trusting to the good judgment and daily grace he gives me and the gift of free will to exercise value over my own life and that of my family and to NOT put myself in that position in the first place. Would that not, indeed, be more like DARING God? God if you care about me so much then save me!! Like the devil daring Jesus to throw himself from a mountain. Well my answer is the same as his: " Do not put the Lord your God to the test"

So I ask you all....do I belong in this thread? Am I leaving my child bearing up to God when I practice periods o difficult chastity with my husband? I am still open to life...all the pieces are still there..my recent Miscarriage is sad proof of that. My heart is there. Part of me des long for another child. But yet. I will not test God in this matter. I will do what I can and what Holy mother church permits me and encourages me to do in this serious case. Am I being sinful in this decision? No. Of that I am sure.I write all this because I would just be so saddened at the thought that another woman reading this thread would be going through a Similaxperience and read a line here or there about her choice to use NFP for serious reasons and be shamed into thinking this hard choice sinful or worse yet to lose her OWN life trying to maintain a pure standard of being "open to life".....

I must say I hope I have expressed all this with a spirit of Love as it was intended and do not intend to direct my comments to any one person ...just to offer them up for all to consider...

Also I don't judge anyone for the choices they make regarding birth control. I just know what the Lord has led OUR FAMILY to do.

Punkin 04-23-2014 07:36 PM

Re: Anyone else leave their childbearing up to God?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christina2babyboys (Post 17350647)
I am NOT Catholic so I have no idea. Maybe yall should start your own thread for Catholic mamas. :)

A good idea!! :). I wonder if there is one? Maybe a search is in order!

At any rate I Did not mean to be intrustive of course! :highfive: I was just responding to the points raised in the thread specific to Catholic moms...

But it does raise a question....do Quiverful and OTHER non-quivering but wanting as many children as God gives families...I am indeed interested to know what is taught or how are you counseled when you suddenly have a serious medical reason that makes pregnancy dangerous?

christina2babyboys 04-23-2014 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 17350655)

A good idea!! :). I wonder if there is one? Maybe a search is in order!

At any rate I Did not mean to be intrustive of course! :highfive: I was just responding to the points raised in the thread specific to Catholic moms...

But it does raise a question....do Quiverful and OTHER non-quivering but wanting as many children as God gives families...I am indeed interested to know what is taught or how are you counseled when you suddenly have a serious medical reason that makes pregnancy dangerous?

I havrnt thought about it much. Cross that bridge when I get to it.
The protestant church is much different than the Catholic Church in that we don't have one authority that lays out the "rules" for everyone to follow. KWIM?
Unless its spelled out in specific detail in the Bible then its up to the individual Christian to make those kind of decisions.

MrsAsh 04-24-2014 11:35 PM

Re: Anyone else leave their childbearing up to God?
 
I feel that I will come to making hard decisions one day, sooner then I'd like. If I must needs use NFP or a barrier method, I will, but it will be a very hard thing. For me each pregnancy has gotten better, but that is due to P17 injections and how much I trust taking that drug is still iffy. Preterm labor and birth are hard things to fight while having many little ones to care for and no family and few friends close by. I take it day and day. Today I'm pregnant and healthy, tomorrow could change and I'll face that when it comes. It's between God, my husband, and myself and to use a unharmful means is not sinful if done for a non-sinful reason. Many people I hear say that "God gave us the knowledge of cycles so we could control it" and I think that yes he did design us in a way that we can avoid pregnancy when needed, such as a serious medical condition.

steph_marie9 05-02-2014 08:06 PM

Re: Anyone else leave their childbearing up to God?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 17350637)
I have a question....I've read lots of this discussion about NFP and the Catholic Church. To begin withI have a basic disagreement with the fact of Vatican II- presided over by a sitting pope elected by the college o council and precoded over by the magesterium of the church....I have a BASIC disagreement with this not being called a valid council.

I also have a basic disagreement with the idea that those practicing NFP are practicing sinful behavior. EVERY case is different. We are NOT in everyone's bedrooms and most certainly we do not able to see Into the soul and how that couple is following the Church and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Judgement is reserved for God in the absense of direct defiance of chirch teaching. There are INDEED serious reasons (and the word "Serious"indeed makes all the difference) why a person must make an effort to seek God's will in their childbearing that may include a decision to abstain from marital relations during certain times. To be chaste in a spirit of love is holy. It has always been so in the church. I object totally to the label of NFP as sinful when used for serious reasons.

Answer me this: and understand I give this case, my own, merely as one example. I have a potentially life threatening placenta condition that develops In my pregnancies (each pregnancy and each placenta being different there is no way to know for sure how serious each case will be...each of mine have been more serious than the last...a discouraging and hard to ignore trend). I have been told every which way to be sterilized or have my husband sterilized by doctors and family members begging me and even RELIGIOUS in the church counseling me. My own dear husband was afraid to come near Me for many months afraid he would essential be killing me. He actually told me this (horrible to hear!!), by the grace of the Holy spirit we have moved past this AND we still practice a very basic form of family planning revolving around very long periods of chastity. We also experienced a pregnancy but we both embraced Gods will and trusted him to protect me. The day after I went before an image of Divine Mercy and recieved the blessing of St. Blaise I miscarried. I am saddened but know it is Gods will. I very much would like more children but I also know that to NOT attempt to use some form of NFP would be to me and to my husband and family to be not valuing the life God gave me and to not be protectiv of my famiky. It would be akin to walking onto a freeway with cars moving at 60 miles an hour and trusting God to protect me rather than trusting to the good judgment and daily grace he gives me and the gift of free will to exercise value over my own life and that of my family and to NOT put myself in that position in the first place. Would that not, indeed, be more like DARING God? God if you care about me so much then save me!! Like the devil daring Jesus to throw himself from a mountain. Well my answer is the same as his: " Do not put the Lord your God to the test"

So I ask you all....do I belong in this thread? Am I leaving my child bearing up to God when I practice periods of difficult chastity with my husband? I am still open to life...all the pieces are still there..my recent Miscarriage is sad proof of that. My heart is there. Part of me does long for another child. But yet. I will not test God in this matter. I will do what I can and what Holy mother church permits me and encourages me to do in this serious case. Am I being sinful in this decision? No. Of that I am sure.I write all this because I would just be so saddened at the thought that another woman reading this thread would be going through a Similaxperience and read a line here or there about her choice to use NFP for serious reasons and be shamed into thinking this hard choice sinful or worse yet to lose her OWN life trying to maintain a pure standard of being "open to life".....

I must say I hope I have expressed all this with a spirit of Love as it was intended and do not intend to direct my comments to any one person ...just to offer them up for all to consider...

Well, whether you belong in this thread or not I can't say, I didn't start it. But as a Catholic, I'm right with you, and would be doing the same in your situation. Thankfully, I've had easy pregnancies and births so far, so not an issue. I do think that intentionally seeking pregnancy when there is a serious risk of death could indicate a lack of concern for the mother's life. I won't rule out that some women are called to heroic self-sacrifice in this area, but not all!

SweetMamaKaty 05-29-2014 11:45 AM

Re: Anyone else leave their childbearing up to God?
 
Prenatal vitamin / folic acid reminder mamas! My baby was born on the 18th with a small sacral dimple. They did an ultrasound on him and found nothing to worry about, but it felt a little too close for comfort. Please make it a priority, don't let yourself forget to take them, it's for potential baby, remember. :)


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