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kerryannkeegan 04-19-2008 07:14 PM

help please
My DS is 8 weeks old. we have been having trouble BF from the start. Bad latch for 5 days then refused to latch until 5 weeks so I pumped and bottle fed. Then he latched occasionally. Found out he had a posterior tongue tie. Had it clipped a week ago but have not seen any real improvement. So here we are now. He has a difficult time latching. Sometimes gets it correct but usually only a shallow latch. Also slips off often and slides my nipple in and out.
Also he only drinks during a let down. I have a oversupply form pumping so I think this is the only reason he is getting what he is getting. He will stay on for 45 minutes and only take 1.5 ounces.
It is definetly not low supply when I take him off I can pump 3 ounces out! so please any help would be much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Kerry

snookler 04-19-2008 07:57 PM

Re: help please
I've been struggling with tongue tie as well. For me, I have found that different positions can make a big difference. I have had greater success with the football hold, and nursing laying down. I have also found that when I try to latch him, I have to manipulate my breast to really get as much in as possible. It sounds trange, but holding it like a sandwich, and placing the nipple as far into his mouth and up against his palate usually results in a better/longer latch.
It's so great that you have stuck with it this so far. It sometimes will take a week or so for them to re-learn to latch after the frenulum is clipped as it will use new muscle groups.
I'm curious, Are you sure that he's only getting 1.5 hours during a nursing session?
Are you still giving him bottles?

ChunkiBunz Diaperz 04-19-2008 07:59 PM

Re: help please
i havent had any experience with this but my ds gets mad sometimes because the flow is to fast and he does the half in and out thing to it hurts so bad. so what i do is i pinch around my nipple a little flat and put it in further. he seems to have a better time if i do that as apposed to just doing it on his own. also i hold him closer while im doing that because he tends to pull away.


kdawg 04-19-2008 08:26 PM

Re: help please
Clipping the tongue ties on our twins made huge, immediate difference.

Age also matters. After about 2 months, they became way more efficient feeders going form 1hrs+ feeds to 5 minutes...

Have you considered a lactation consultant, LaLeche league, or your hospital's breastfeeding clinic? Sometimes it's easy to let your technique lapse when you're tired and frustrated and a fresh set of eyes can really help out.

Irishmommy 04-19-2008 08:43 PM

Re: help please
:hugs: Mamma, I'm dealing with a clipped tongue tie over here too. My ds STILL doesn't know how to latch on well. He's now 7 weeks and we had his clipped at 2 weeks. I've tried different holds, but it seems he can only do one hold well. I just keep trying different ones, just to keep him open to new holds. I second the hold him in close. Also, I know a major mistake I was making was tickling his lower lip (in hopes of getting his tongue out further) instead of his upper lip and that was making it REALLY difficult to get my nip in far enough. I also find that if I get him at his FIRST hunger cue it is so much easier than when he's worked up. Also, one exercise that you can do with him is take a clean pinky and put it to his bottom gum starting in the middle and move it to the right and try to get him to follow it with his tongue (then do it to the left), and repeat with the upper gum. That will help him with range of motion.
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

SublimeBaby 04-19-2008 09:38 PM

Re: help please
Hi mamas,
I had a tongue tied babe too and EPed for 5 weeks before getting her on a nipple sheild, then two weeks later I was able to get her off the sheild.

Im not a huge fan of sheilds normally.. but if your babe is used to a bottle it may help the transition. I also highly recommend the breast flow bottles by the first years. They helped my DDs latch more then the clip did. It really changed the way she used her tongue. It also let me be able to teach her to open wide. If you are switching back and forth with a bottle that may be a large reason why babe is so confused. With a bottle they eat completely differently. They create suction and then basically just use the tip of their tongue to cover the hole to stop or slow it. With breastfeeding they have to use a wave motion to "milk" them milk ducts. One thing the lc showed me that helped was to put my upside down pinky in her mouth and get her sucking good that way, making sure I felt her making the right motion and then transfering to the nipple. I also wore nipple shells 30 minute prior to feeding in the beginning because she really needed a firm feeling nipple or she just wouldnt do it.

Just a ray of hope about the clip.. her tongue seemed sore for about a week after. And we didnt get her to the breast with the sheild for two more weeks.. so keep trying.

Good luck, Mama! You can two can do it. Try calling LeLeche Leader for help.

kerryannkeegan 04-20-2008 12:22 PM

Re: help please
thank you all for your help and advice. I am working with 3 different LC.
currently I am puping after every feeding and supplementing with a bottle. I am using the natural latch by playtex. I tried the breastflow but it seemed like the flow was too fast for him. I have done pre and post weights and that his how I know how much he is taking.
I will try the exercises you suggested.
I tried a shield but he had a harder time latching on to that then without.
Thanks again for the advice. I will keep you all posted.

SublimeBaby 04-20-2008 11:20 PM

Re: help please
Did the breastflow have the stage 1 nipples? Those things seemed to be super slow flow for my little one.

One thing I was thinking about.. since you have the oversupply, do you also have an over active let down? I also had that problem in the beginning.. one of the reasons she wouldnt eat without the sheild, I think... The force and amount of my letdown was just too much, so she would perch at the tip of my nipple and keep her mouth really ridgid trying to slow the flow. Does he gulp and sputter during let down? Maybe if you did have an issue with overactive let down and corrected that he would more deeply latch and move more milk..

Just another idea.

One last thing.. did you guys have a traumatic birth at all.. any caputs, suction, forceps, etc? Craniosacral has worked wonders for some babies.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

kerryannkeegan 04-21-2008 06:47 AM

Re: help please
I do seem to have somewhat of an overactive let down but as long as I am not too full he seems to do o.k. with it. However, if he tries to eat after I have pumped recently he does seem to latch more deeply........ I am just so nervouse that if I let my supply drop he won't be able to get anything.
I had a rapid delivery not tramatic. However, we are trying cranial sacral therapy. I will try just about anything at this point

SublimeBaby 04-21-2008 11:00 AM

Re: help please
I pumped double what I needed to feed her in the beginning so when we went to the breast the poor thing was drowning... So I always noticed that when I was pumping I'd have multiple let downs, so I'd let her stimulate the first let down, take her off and let down into a cloth diaper :) then put her back. My subsequent let downs werent as hard or as much as that first one so she could handle them. I also made sure to nurse her in a position that allowed her to open her mouth and let the excess out.. the football/clutch hold did not work for us. We did alot of cradle hold and side lying.

I completely understand what you are saying about being terrified of your supply dropping. I had that same fear.. and mastitis, I was so scared Id get that and kill my supply once I stopped pumping and went completely to the breast. But it did totally work out. I just made sure that I kept my water intake up and expressed to comfort and everything regulated out in a couple weeks.

How much do you pump a day? How much does the baby take at a feeding? When you did your before and after feeding had he eaten recently? When do you do your next before/after weigh?

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