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-   -   Time out/GD questions and advice needed (http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458973)

Ooey 06-17-2008 12:28 PM

Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
So oh boy Whilder has suddenly gotten to that age where she has started to test us on everything, and DH and I have decided that giving her time out is going to work best to teach her that it's not ok. I had to do it for the first time yesterday and it felt really awkward and I'm not sure if I did everything correctly...I would really love some feedback, tips and advice from more experienced parents, or even just to hear what works for you/your kids.

Whilder is a very sensitive kid, it doesn't take much for her to realize when she's done something wrong, and usually if she does she will feel ashamed and show it. I think a big part of what's going on now is her feeling that things are about to change with the new baby on the way and all...she's been super SUPER clingy to me and just starting to act out in all kinds of new ways. Yesterday she was eating in her highchair like usual when all of a sudden she started to spit water everywhere. I immideatly told her that was not okay and to stop, which she responded to by getting a huge smirk on her face and doing it again. Then when I got up and went over to her she grabbed a hand full of noodles from the bowl in front of her and threw them at me! I was quite shocked, she's NEVER done anything like this...so I told her that was NOT ok and that she was going to have a time out. I picked her up and it took me a few seconds to decide where to put her... I was going to make her stand against the wall in the livingroom, DH did this once before and I didn't really like it, she screamed the whole time. So I decided to take her into the bedroom and sat her on her bed (it's a side-car'd crib). Next-I think this was a mistake- I took off her shirt that was soaked with water and put on a clean shirt. Then I told her to stay right there, and I left the room and closed the door. I could here her laughing for a min or so...then she started calling for me "mommy? mommy?" then she got up and came to the door. I went in and put her back on the bed and told her she had to stay there...at which point she started crying. Left her in there for another 2 min. or so then had DH go and get her. She had stopped crying but as soon as she came back out and saw me she started bawling again and came running towards me screaming "mommy mommy."

DH and I have been debating over this...do you think when she cries and calls out for me it's because she needs comfort or because she is being "a brat?" It's something she does pretty much every time she gets in trouble, or sometimes just for the heck of it she will cry and want me to hold her. DH thinks that i need to be firm with her and not let her cry into my arms all the time for no reason...but she gives me this face like she fells really hurt/unwanted if I refuse to hold her. I'm worried that it may be because she was weaned too soon and really all she wants is to nurse. The other night in bed she just cried for about an hour clinging on to me for no apparent reason other than I had gotten up to go to the bathroom and she didn't want me to let go of her...heck she even started crying because I had my arm around her then I moved it away. Do you think this is "bratting" as DH calls it...or maybe just because the new baby is coming...? Or maybe I need to let her go back to nursing? She still wants to nurse sometimes but has been mostly weaned for a month or so. I have such a hard time disciplining her, my instincts tell me to just hold her every time she cries...but I know she's getting to the age where she is going to become super spoiled if I just give in to her every single time.


Any advice/input would be great!

Ooey 06-17-2008 06:40 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
Nobody? :(

Ooey 06-17-2008 10:34 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
Somebody has to have some advice for me... I went and posted this on mothering...now I really feel like I'm needing some more "mainstream" opinions and possibly some hugs :(

LilyGrace 06-18-2008 01:56 AM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
I'll bite. :giggle:

I think it's very possible to nurture that instinct to hold her and to discipline effectively at the same time. Giving love isn't spoiling - it's what you do with the love that is. If it's going to shelter her from her mistakes it'll do her harm, but if it's a shoulder to cry on she'll be better off. Discipline comes in many forms - it doesn't have to be punitive or retribution. It can be guidance, correction, and learning, too.

The scenario you gave with the noodles is a hard one, but I think I would have handled it a bit differently to focus on other qualities that are important to me. Rather than giving her a time out, I would have taken one to cool down and think. Dad can take over while I'm busy getting un-angry at a 2yo.
The thing that I would want to teach is that hurting people is not okay, and we all deserve to have our bodies treated with respect. More than that, we all deserve to give ourselves that respect when it's not automatically given by others. Stepping back in, telling her dad would be sitting with her because I don't like noodles thrown at me, and going off to read my book would have allowed the lesson to sink in. Since she threw them, she would also need to clean them up before the meal could continue, too..

We can't force empathy/shame before they're ready to understand it, which is what punishment attempts to accomplish here. But we can allow them the opportunities to internalize it without us telling them how to feel - and still discipline effectively. They will get it, I promise. And more than that, we can offer them the goal of ways to make amends and fix mistakes instead of letting punishment be the goal.

You're probably right that it has something to do with the new baby, too. She's still a bit young, but I'd suggest getting the book Siblings Without Rivalry (same author as How to Talk So Kids Will Listen/Listen Kids Talk). Read through now and then keep it on your shelf. A great perspective into the minds of new siblings and how to nurture their emotions without at the expense of any others.

:hugs: It'll get better. Or at least different. :giggle:


Sorry, probably not the advice you're looking for, but having two pretty good kids raised with this style tends to up my belief in it.

lizzytra 06-18-2008 08:39 AM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
The only thing I will address is the water and noodle scenario as we have a almost 2 year old and what I do w/her is:

We have decided what is REALLY important. Like, we don't tolerate "hitting" (or her light smacking of her brother or us. So, we will tell her, "No, Emme. Please do not hit. If you hit again you will go in time out." If she hits us again or her brother we put her in a kitchen chair and set the timer for 2 min. When the timer goes off we go over to her and say, "We put you in time out b/c you hit. Please do not hit. Can you say your sorry?" We hug each other and we tell her we love her, etc and then down she goes. We did this a few times and she no longer hits.

I would personally suggest not putting her in her bed or leaving the room as I can see that not working w/our DD. For some reason, that just doesn't seem like it would work well w/such a young age.

I read a bit of the OP and I liked that she suggested picking up the noodles. We do similar things w/our 3 year old. If he throws food we tell him to pick it up or he will go into timeout... although we still expect him to pick up his food.

The key, although difficult, is to remain calm and keep an even temper and low but firm voice.

We have also learned to use TONS of positive reinforcement. If Emme is eating neatly (not throwing food on the floor) we tell her how much we appreciate it... and we do! If our DD takes a toy away from our DS and he doesn't strike out at her or try to snatch it back we thank him for being so mature, etc.

I hope that helps a bit.

Again, I'm not quite sure what to say about the "bratting" out behavior. If she is crying after a bad behavior she might be very sensitive and feel a great amount of remorse. Only you really know your DD. Our DD can act very similiary, especially when she is tired. In those cases I don't expect as much as I know she is tired & even after a 2 min time out we cuddle w/her as she is very sensitive too.

It sounds like she just really loves you to me! The only thing I can suggest is that once the baby arrives you make sure to affirm your love for her a lot and provide one on one time w/her. I have had to do that w/my DD as I have a newborn. She has a baby doll and if I'm changing the baby's diaper I ask if her baby needs chaning. I encourage her to sit next to me when I nurse the baby, etc as I don't want her to think the baby is taking her place.

Anyway, I've rambled on!!! Whew! Hope there was something in there you can use! .... time to attend to the "brood" here ... LOL. Speaking of food messes... whew!

bethanyb 06-18-2008 04:43 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
We are going through similar struggles with our 2 yr old daughter. It's so hard to know where to draw the lines and when to discipline. I wish I could know what she is thinking, so I knew when she was testing the rules and when she has a genuine need that I need to meet. We have learned a couple of things that seem to be working, so I'll share in case some of it works for you too.

She went through a phase not too long ago when she would throw her entire plate of food on the floor sometimes even before she ate any of it and she did it at every meal. We tried doing timeouts, but ended up realizing that she was throwing the plate because she wanted to get out and play, so the timeouts were just giving her what she wanted. What ended up working for us was having her help clean up the mess she made by putting the food back on the plate. Then I would put her back in the chair with the plate of food and tell her that she needed to say "I'm all done". After she said it, I let her down right away. There were a few days where we had to pick up the food several times, but it really didn't take long before she realized it wasn't working and now she says "I'm all done" every meal.

What seems to be working for us is to focus on the acceptable behavior and downplay the bad behavior. We expect there to be a teaching period when she starts an unacceptable behavior and explain and demonstrate the good behavior lots of times. We give her lots of praise when she does the right thing. When we are pretty sure she understands, we do timeouts for the bad behavior, but we really haven't had to use too many of them yet. We do them on a chair in the hall where I can watch her and make sure she stays there. If she gets off the chair, I tell her the timeout has to start over. I wonder if it would help your daughter to be able to see you when she is in timeout?

I've also been having issues with nursing. My daughter lost interest in nursing about 4 months ago. (I think my milk may have been drying up.) I'm expecting another baby any day now and I'm really nervous about how she'll react to him nursing all the time. I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with it, but I'm leaning toward letting her try it in hopes that she won't remember how. I've been trying to prepare her, by talking about how babies can't eat all the foods she likes so they have to eat mommy milk, but I really don't know if it's going to work or not.

As far as the "bratting", I know I would have a really hard time ignoring my daughters cries for me. She has started a lot more whining and crying lately, but it's generally for toys or food rather than for me, so I'm a lot more comfortable ignoring it and telling her she needs to use words if she wants something. Do you think you could teach her a polite way to ask for your attention? Maybe have her say "Mommy, I need a hug," instead of crying and whining for your attention?

If you find something that works really well for you, I would love to hear about it!

Birdof1985 06-18-2008 08:10 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
Maybe she wants to nurse... let her.
Maybe she is saying " mommy i need your attention, please give it to me"
Maybe she is just being "bratty" due to upcoming changes.

idk... :headscratch:

I know after DD2 came, DD1 went through MAJOR jealousy issues and has clinged on to me like you wouldnt believe- i cant even go to the bathroom without her crying at the door or wantin to follow me.

We give time outs.. we sit them on the couch or a stool, anywhere WITHOUT toys, sippys, anything to distract from why they are there (for being bad).. then set the timer for a minute their age and then get them out and say "you were here b/c........".

medaroge 06-18-2008 09:23 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lizzytra (Post 3897508)

We have decided what is REALLY important. Like, we don't tolerate "hitting" (or her light smacking of her brother or us. So, we will tell her, "No, Emme. Please do not hit. If you hit again you will go in time out." If she hits us again or her brother we put her in a kitchen chair and set the timer for 2 min. When the timer goes off we go over to her and say, "We put you in time out b/c you hit. Please do not hit. Can you say your sorry?" We hug each other and we tell her we love her, etc and then down she goes. We did this a few times and she no longer hits.

We have also learned to use TONS of positive reinforcement. If Emme is eating neatly (not throwing food on the floor) we tell her how much we appreciate it... and we do! If our DD takes a toy away from our DS and he doesn't strike out at her or try to snatch it back we thank him for being so mature, etc.

this is what we do and it works great for us. I think the key is to find what works with yoru family.

piccolo41099 06-18-2008 09:35 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
OK, in my house spitting and throwing food are BIG no-no's.

We give one and only one warning. If the spitting/throwing does not stop, meal time is over. Food is gone. period.

This has worked with my own boys as well as my daycare children. I have had many a parent ask me if their child throws food at my house, when I say NO, they can't believe it.

Respecting parents is also a big one in my house (and we are very lovey dovey parents). My children sit in a special time out spot, in the kitchen on a rug for a min. per year of age.

At 2 yrs old, she is old enough to understand, and timeout can be used. I would pick a spot some place other than her bed, and always use that spot (in the beginning, after a while it will not matter where the spot is).

What ever you do be consistant. Do not change what behavior is OK from day to day. She will just test the rules that much more. Also, it usually gets a bit worse for a few days until she realizes you mean buisness. Then it will get much better.

I'm not sure if this help or not, but it is what we do, and it works for us.

MCR 06-18-2008 09:42 PM

Re: Time out/GD questions and advice needed
 
Spitting or throwing food I remove the food.
Throwing toys at me or someone else, I remove the toy (I have a lot on top of the fridge )
Repeating the behavior I've said no to, or smirking and doing it anyway. Gets a time out, in the corner, sitting in our hallway off the living room, I can see her from the living room, she can see us carrying on as usual, but she doesn't get to join in for 3 minutes (she has turned three now)
We can go weeks between time outs, then she will have a day where she goes two or three times in a row.
I tried sending her to her room a couple of times, I could hear her playing so we stopped doing that. I also didn't want to associate going to bed with time out and getting in trouble.
So far she's still testing us to see what she can get away with. Some days are better than others. Today was really good.


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