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-   -   Those who delay, selec. vax, etc. (http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52078)

Kimmomy2dom 10-16-2006 08:15 AM

Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
Sorry for another thread! The girls' two month check up is tomorrow (17th). I just got a book on vaxes last night. I think I at least want to delay so I have a chance to do my research.
We go to a "clinic" but essentially see a family doctor, who is pretty young (and cute, lol). He's kinda hard to read, though, andI never know what he's going to say.
My son is up to date on all his vaxes, so doc doesn't know what's coming. I'm a wuss for authority figures and doctors. SO what do I say and how do I say it? I'm thinking I should say it to the nurse first to see if I have the balls, lol. Do I just basically ask to delay and for them to give me the literature they have on their vaxes?
And what do I need to do? Do I need to screw around with exemptions or anything right now? I am slightly worried about how he'll react. He's relatively supprtive of my breastfeeding and I like him so I'd rather not have to change doctors, KWIM?
Also, for those that delay how long do you delay for? Any other tidbits of advice for me?

Mommy2JJ 10-16-2006 08:25 AM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
Well I am pretty bad about standing up on things like this or I was. My ds got his shots up to 9 months. My doc is very pro vaxing too and when we went to his 12 month appt he actually ended up having a bad cold and so she said we will do it later. I said I didn't know if I was ready and she gave me a whole story and made me feel bad. I ended up finding on MDC a name of a good ap doc and I LOVE him and it's so nice not to have to feel bad and have a doc on the same page as you.

As far as how long to delay......I am not sure what we will do, he has the main ones that he got before I knew. He has not had his varciella and won't for sure or his MMR and I don't know what we are doing. I am still researching when I can and am leaning towards no vaxing with our next or very few. I don't know which ones and everything. Vaxing is just hard to make decisions on imo.

LOL I hope I made sense....had a very short night last night :)

naturegirl7 10-16-2006 09:51 AM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
First - Do NOT ask them permission to delay vaxing - TELL them you are delaying vaxing. Asking them gives them the opportunity (in their minds) to bully you into giving the vaxes.

IF this is what you have decided to do - then do it. YOU are their parent and are the one who's job it is to make all the important decisions. It is NOT the doctor's job to make decisions (depsite what many of them think!) but instead to provide you will ALL necessary information to make an informed choice.

We don't vax - and it was hard for me to find a ped that accepted it as my right as a parent. WHile PG I interviewed about 5 peds - I would ask "what is your policy on delayed vaxing?" or "We plan to delay Vaxing - will this be a problem for your office?" All of them jumped on me, bullying the poor PG woman. I walked out of many an office and sat in my car and cried in anger and frustration. They told me that I was risking my child's life, etc. Trying to make me feel like a horrible mother. Scare tactics suck - but they are generally very effective. But they also told me that formula wasn't bad for babies, that not all women can BF, etc when I asked what sort of BFing support their offices offered. :banghead: And when asking about how they hadnel latex allergies - the one nurse looked at me like she didn't understand what a latex allergy was and then informed me "Oh - well we do have a crash cart on site." :headscratch: I kept searchign until I found a ped who understands it is my right and decision to decide about vaxing, who is supporting of BFing, who is knowledgable on intact boys, etc. It was a long hard search - but man was it worth it. I know you like this ped, but if he really gives you a hard time - is it worth that arguement every appt?


Be strong. Stand by your decision. Respectfully but FIRMLY tell the ped that this is a decision that you have made, PERIOD. Don't let them bully you with their stupid scare tactics and demeaning comments on your parenting.

Honestly, I would (and have!) fill out the exemption forms and bring them with me. Hand them to the ped and say - "We had decided to delay vaxing, these are for your records." That makes it more Official, more legal, and lets them know you mean business. It makes you less of an "easy prey" for them, and give you a bit of confidence too. I feel so secure with that silly piece of paper in my hands - cuz it affirms and protects my legal rights. And can change the way some people treat you.

GL!

wbkt8 10-16-2006 10:13 AM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
i'm not sure i'd exactly call myself a delayed vaxer, but we did delay varicella and the MMR a bit and a few others things. i think i asked a few questions about them when speaking with the Dr. and then said we wouldn't be getting xyz at this time or wanted to wait to get x until later, etc. i personally wouldn't discuss it with the nurse at all, but then again the nurses at our ped's office annoy me. our ped is favorable towards vaxing, but has never been militant or pushy with me about it thankfully.

urchin_grey 10-16-2006 10:22 AM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
I'm the same way as you... But when the nurse came in I didn't say anything until right before she was about to walk back out. :giggle: I didn't want to give her a chance to argue. I just said "Oh, we don't want vaxes today". The nurse had already told the Dr. before she came in so I didn't have to tell her. She didn't pressure me or anything but tried to show me what he had left (DS is vaxed up until his 9m shots) and that they were all ones he's already had before so he "would have already had a reaction". She's not pushing it though and doesn't even want to see us until December. Sooo, I guess she must not be too worried since he was *supposed* to get those at 12m. :mrgreen:

Oh, and just remember, vaxes are OPTIONAL. I know you know that but its like engrained in our mindset from childhood that we don't have a choice so then we feel ashamed or something if we don't want them. Just remember its YOUR choice. :thumbsup:

Kimmomy2dom 10-16-2006 11:22 AM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
Train the novice: how do I get an exemption form?

jenn5388 10-16-2006 11:53 AM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmomy2dom (Post 371925)
Train the novice: how do I get an exemption form?


You go to the health department to get one, but you don't need one at the moment unless they are going to be in daycare, or school .lol

I can tell you right now, it's rare to find a doctor that actually supports no vaxes or delayed. I was going to delay miranda's until she was 2(ended up with not going to do them at all)

I can't remember exactly now, but in some country they either did this, or do this, and basically sids doesn't exist there, there's alot less reactions to vaccines, ETC. I thought if I delayed until she was 2 her immune system would be strong enough to handle the vaccines, hopefully.

anyway, just telling the doctor I didn't want them at that moment made him literally fly off the handle.. he was screaming and yelling and telling me she'd be dead before i got the first vaccine from something i could of "prevented" with a little shot.. Blah Blah Blah. It was hard but i stood my ground. You don't try to "teach them" they are going to say what they thing is right, and you are going to say what you think is right. Ask them if your children can still be paitents there, and if not, it's time to find a new place.

whatever you do, don't get into some huge debate with them. You won't win him over. lol

I stopped doing Wellbaby visits, because of this reason.. plus some others.
I got better things to do than argue with some doctor. we went to a 2 month appt and that was it. she's been to the doctor for one other visit.

If you plan on delaying, it really depends on each family. But I think 2 is a good age IMO. because that way the immune system can better handle the toxins and stuff that's in those vaccines.

Good luck at the appts. Remember.. Stand strong. Vaccines come at the end of the appt, so no need to stick around if he starts in on you. Tell him you are delaying for more research, stick them babies in thier catseats and leave. :)

tash 10-16-2006 12:25 PM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmomy2dom (Post 371392)
...I'm a wuss for authority figures and doctors. ...

Doctors are NOT authority figures. they are a person who provides a service. They are just like a waitress at a restraunt. A waitress may come up to you and reccomend that you get the grilled salmon, but its ok if you order the chicken. If a waitress were to say "oh, no you will like the samon much better, I ll just bring you that" or try to bully you into ordering that instead would you leave them a tip? would you return to the restraunt?

now, sure, maybe the waitress does know more then you do. perhaps she knows that the cooks always dry out the chicken, or maybe the chicken has been sitting out all day. or maybe she gets a bonus if she sells the most fish. point is, its YOUR desision. YOU have the ULTIMITE AUTHORITY over these things.


I agree that you DO NOT ASK if you can vaccinate. But you DO ask if you are still welcome to be paitents. If not, well there are doctors out there that are good with bfing and are at least ok with non/delayed vaxing.


exemption forms: your doctor will give you one. you dont have to sign it. some people dont like signing them because it basicly states that you know you are endangering your child blah blah blah. the one my doctor gave me was just a 'we reccommend XXX, [my name] refused XXX'.
for school age kids each state is diffrent on what form or letter they want you to have to give the school. from what I hear it can vary from school to school. most states have a religous exemption.

btw, I was all prepared to keep saying "we arent doing vaxes at this time" over and over. and the nurse said something about bringing them in and I said it. then the doctor came in later and did the exam and then said "were you going to vax" and I said no. and all she said was "ok, I will have the nurse bring you the waiver.

jenn5388, I belive its Japan that doesnt do vaxes until 2. when they started doing it thier sids rate plumeted.

Kimmomy2dom 10-16-2006 12:44 PM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
I know they aren't authority figures, that's what the AND is for. I know I can tell them no. It's worse for me when I have developed a good relationship with them. I am aware they know FAR more than me about the human body and medical conditions, that's why I put mt children's lives in their hands and why I have a hard time saying no. I do know I know what's best when it comes to my children. I will not leave their office with my kids poked right now.

naturegirl7 10-16-2006 01:44 PM

Re: Those who delay, selec. vax, etc.
 
Quote:

You go to the health department to get one, but you don't need one at the moment unless they are going to be in daycare, or school .lol
This isn't entirely correct. You need to have paperwork to cover your butt. There have been cases where Children and Youth were called in to "investigate neglect" because parents were not vaxing. Without the paperwork - you have nothing but your word to prove that you DECIDED not to vax. It is complete BS - but people have actually had their kids taken away in some states while being investigated - all cuz of vaxes.

Quote:

exemption forms: your doctor will give you one. you dont have to sign it. some people dont like signing them because it basicly states that you know you are endangering your child blah blah blah. the one my doctor gave me was just a 'we reccommend XXX, [my name] refused XXX'.
for school age kids each state is diffrent on what form or letter they want you to have to give the school. from what I hear it can vary from school to school. most states have a religous exemption.
This is not the same as an exemption form. Many docs will give you a form to sign saying that you know the risks to you child and will not hold them accountable for putting your child at risk as a result of not vaxing. This is a LIABILITY form NOT an exemption. It is a cover-your-butt form for the docs. Which you are not obiligated to sign, atleast not in the form it is provided. Most wont' continue to treat you if you outright refuse to sign it. Mine never gave me one. Many do, which is rather insulting. You CAN cross out, box, highlight, etc any portion you do no agree with - such as "I understand that I am putting my child's health and wellbeing in danger...risking death...blah blah blah" And then write in yourself - I do not agree with this statement and initial it. At the bottom where you are supposed to sign your name - write something like please note that my signature does not constitute agreement to the document in its entirity. I have highlight and initial portions that I do not agree with. - and then sign it.


THe exmeption form is a legal document that varies from state to state. The types of exemption vary according to state. Most have medical and religious, and some more progressive states have philosophical. Medical - kinda obvious, only medical reasons and needs to be signed by a MD. Religious - that is what most people use (it is the easiest and most protective.) It varies by state. Most just require you to fill out the form and sign it (you never have to declare WHAT religion you are and no one can require you to disclose it). Some states require you to get a letter from your clergy stating this is part of your faith's doctrine - but there are ways around that too - PM me if you need details on that. Philosphoical doesn't exist in most states, but it is the reason most dont' vax.

Go to www.mothering.com
There is an entire forum dedicated to the issue of vaxing. It is my ultimate resource. THere are links to great information, links to state by state laws, links to all the exemption forms according to states. Plus the women there are amazing - they are informative and knowledgable about the vaxes, natural immunity, the laws, etc. There is also a sticky there about one woman who had her kids taken away cuz her dad called C&Y over her not vaxing and the ordeal she went thru trying to get her paperwork together and her kids back. It is worth a read, jus to understand how important paperwork really is.

Also - I would recommend going to all the well baby checkups. It is good to have baby routinely evaluated - it can help catch anything earlier, monitor growth, etc - plus you develop a good relationship with the ped, so that when DC is sick you don't need to worry about the appt or getting hassled or DC beign terrified of the ped, etc. Plus it shows that you are not medically neglecting the child, just chosing not to vax (another thing on your side if god forbid any issue ever came up with C&Y).


Hope that helps - and really go check out MDC!


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