If you think your decision to not vaccinate only affects you and your child...

[shorkiegirl]

Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the hostility...but wow.

I should do some more research? Actually, that's what I do. For a living. If you want a lecture about virology, I could have done that - I just figured that this was a little more palatable than immunology.

Terra - I'm sorry you took this so personally, did you bother to watch the video?

DesertRat - it's far too simplistic to discount science because "statistics can be manipulated...". I don't consider researchers who "manipulate" data to be real scientist and that is why there is a serious peer review process in place. The science that has been extensively reviewed winds up in high quality publications and sometimes changes policy, science that cannot be repeated ends up being retracted, often in an ugly, public way.

descrstn - Thanks for watching and actually considering, you obviously can think for yourself and have thought about these issues. I think his tone just reflects his own outrage and of course he's being somewhat hyperbolic but at the root of what he's saying is this: fear-mongering is much more easy to subscribe to than is a real consideration science, particularly appealing to intellectual laziness (you and, I'm sure, most of the women on this forum are not in this demographic of course, but those who are will make themselves known).

Kaci: You do not vaccinate across the board based on the recommendation of the CDC and VAERS? How does that work? The CDC has remained very strong, particularly about MMR and the necessity of maintaining vaccination coverage in order to limit satellite outbreaks. Also, whom did I accuse and of what? I made a specific point to not be accusatory or chiding - perhaps I should have elaborated further that this post might be more appropriate for those who are unsure of their decision, have yet to make a decision or are reconsidering their decision to vaccinate or not. It's clearly not appropriate for those who have closed their minds to any suggestion that is in conflict with their existing beliefs.

nakedbabytoes - read it again, I never said that you are single-handedly initiating the apocalypse. If I thought that these trends only affected very isolated communities and do not have the tendency to grow, I would not be concerned. But that's naive, especially with the advent of the WWW. Misinformation spreads faster than tuberculosis out here! No pun intended

earthmamatobe: I'm sorry you couldn't take the time to consider what I have to say before labeling me

[n3w2cl0th]

Originally Posted by shorkiegirl http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_spe...ce_denial.html Here is Michael Specter's talk at the TED (Technology Entertainment Design) conference this year. His language is easily digestible (i.e. not science-y) though if you want experimental, statistical back-up for the things he is saying, they exist on PubMed and various other databases of scientific research. If you're not interested or don't "believe" in science, I don't expect that a talk like this will convince you of anything, though it may still be worthwhile. I noticed that there are a lot of "non-vaxing" supporters on this site and while I am normally a live and let live kind of person, this tolerance ends when a widespread frenzy based on non-scientific anecdotes threatens to shift the demography of the planet and undo decades of progress. I don't mean to be didactic, and you can take it or leave it as you wish, but I consider it part of my role as a biologist and a (soon-to-be) parent to inform where I can. Thanks and enjoy

ehhh....Im at work so I can't watch this...but...Really? Look...I understand where your coming from, I vax'd my kids on the schedule set by the dr...BUT....everyone is entitled to do what they want with their children in this regard...being new, you shouldn't assume what ppl here do and don't know or have researched...I have seen some pretty compelling research some of these mamas have done on this subject and I can tell you, they are VERY well informed...and just like you may chose to let your child have sugar snacks because studies show its ok in moderation, many mamas chose not to let their children have ANY sugar snacks....because there are studies that show it leads to obesity and diabetes etc etc....(just an example)

You should really gauge your audience first....and try a nicer toned approach...good luck making friends!

[autumnstar]

this should probably just be deleted...I can see this is a subject that will only get out of control, and neither side is likely to give...

I love how your only one semi-nice post was because someone "considered" what you were saying...


But because we disagree w you, we can't think for ourselves?

[iris0110]

Originally Posted by staciestarsage I did fully vaccinate my first child, but haven't vacced my other two at all...and guess what? My daughter just had a reaction to amoxicillin. It was awful...now, what if that was a vaccine, and something worse had happened? i can't bring myself to vac my other two daughters, because i'm afraid they will develop autism or something crazy after being fine all this time...I read a post on here quite some time back about a woman that vacced her son, and all of a sudden he couldn't stand anymore, and it went downhill from there....Better safe than sorry...sheesh...The thought of pouring chemicals into my new innocent unaltered child makes me sick...i just didn't know better the first time...Maybe that is where you are at? You just watch when they stick that needle into your brand new babies foot, and fill his body with chemicals... Will you sit there and say ahhh...yes, that was so the right thing to do for my baby...now the world is a better place? Now, if you want to change ppl's minds about something, you mustn't post such a rude, know it all post...Like you didn't know this would flame up? c'mon....you have your opinions, and we have ours, and if you are so foolish as to base your decisions on this one video, then your opinion is not such a valid one... OH, and a newb too??? just trying to get your posts in, or what? Why is she not replying to any of us anyways? I see she's on...

ITA

OP, you came in spouting inflammatory rhetoric in one of your first posts and you didn't expect people to react? Vaccinations are a very hot topic. As with every hot topic there are multiple sides and believe it or not there isn't necessarily one side that is correct. You think you are right, great for you, and you can do what you think is right for your child. You however can't march in here with a single video and a high and mighty attitude and expect to change everyone's mind. This is no different than a debate about abortion, religion, politics or taxes, not everyone is going to agree and that attitude of yours is not going to win you any supporters.

[Terra]

Originally Posted by earthmamatobe I just LOVE newbies running in here and screaming "you are gonna kill us all with your crazy non-vaxed kids"

Originally Posted by nakedbabytoes I am undoing decades of human advancement? You give me wayyyy to much credit. And here I thought nuclear plants, coal burning mega business, and chemical pollutants were to blame. Silly me. My choice not to vax my boys against chicken pox will ruin the world! Somebody slap some sense into me before I accidentially do more worldwide damage!

Originally Posted by shorkiegirl Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the hostility...but wow. I should do some more research? Actually, that's what I do. For a living. If you want a lecture about virology, I could have done that - I just figured that this was a little more palatable than immunology. Terra - I'm sorry you took this so personally, did you bother to watch the video? DesertRat - it's far too simplistic to discount science because "statistics can be manipulated...". I don't consider researchers who "manipulate" data to be real scientist and that is why there is a serious peer review process in place. The science that has been extensively reviewed winds up in high quality publications and sometimes changes policy, science that cannot be repeated ends up being retracted, often in an ugly, public way. descrstn - Thanks for watching and actually considering, you obviously can think for yourself and have thought about these issues. I think his tone just reflects his own outrage and of course he's being somewhat hyperbolic but at the root of what he's saying is this: fear-mongering is much more easy to subscribe to than is a real consideration science, particularly appealing to intellectual laziness (you and, I'm sure, most of the women on this forum are not in this demographic of course, but those who are will make themselves known). Kaci: You do not vaccinate across the board based on the recommendation of the CDC and VAERS? How does that work? The CDC has remained very strong, particularly about MMR and the necessity of maintaining vaccination coverage in order to limit satellite outbreaks. Also, whom did I accuse and of what? I made a specific point to not be accusatory or chiding - perhaps I should have elaborated further that this post might be more appropriate for those who are unsure of their decision, have yet to make a decision or are reconsidering their decision to vaccinate or not. It's clearly not appropriate for those who have closed their minds to any suggestion that is in conflict with their existing beliefs. nakedbabytoes - read it again, I never said that you are single-handedly initiating the apocalypse. If I thought that these trends only affected very isolated communities and do not have the tendency to grow, I would not be concerned. But that's naive, especially with the advent of the WWW. Misinformation spreads faster than tuberculosis out here! No pun intended earthmamatobe: I'm sorry you couldn't take the time to consider what I have to say before labeling me

I did and it still doesn't change my mind And as far as me taking it personally I would say you are taking it personally by addressing each one of us

[Kaci]

Originally Posted by shorkiegirl Kaci: You do not vaccinate across the board based on the recommendation of the CDC and VAERS? How does that work? The CDC has remained very strong, particularly about MMR and the necessity of maintaining vaccination coverage in order to limit satellite outbreaks. Also, whom did I accuse and of what? I made a specific point to not be accusatory or chiding - perhaps I should have elaborated further that this post might be more appropriate for those who are unsure of their decision, have yet to make a decision or are reconsidering their decision to vaccinate or not. It's clearly not appropriate for those who have closed their minds to any suggestion that is in conflict with their existing beliefs.

Have you ever really looked at the CDC's website? Not their official recommendations but the actual data and statistics they provide?

I could give a flip if someone else chooses to vaccinate, but you are accusing us non-vaxxers of making very important decisions based on anecdotes. Did it ever occur to you that someone else can research just as well as you (maybe better!) and reach a different conclusion. You are not an authority, you are a random biology researcher (who funds your research?) Your word means nothing to me compared to actual black and white facts and the recommendations of the Doctors my family has chosen to help guide our health (including my DH's transplant team and my auto-immune specialist along with DS's pedi.) How intelligent would it be to disregard all of that because some lady on the internet (with NO kids) posted a video?

[diapermommy]

Originally Posted by iris0110 ITA OP, you came in spouting inflammatory rhetoric in one of your first posts and you didn't expect people to react? Vaccinations are a very hot topic. As with every hot topic there are multiple sides and believe it or not there isn't necessarily one side that is correct. You think you are right, great for you, and you can do what you think is right for your child. You however can't march in here with a single video and a high and mighty attitude and expect to change everyone's mind. This is no different than a debate about abortion, religion, politics or taxes, not everyone is going to agree and that attitude of yours is not going to win you any supporters.

Exactly!!

I wish I could "quote" every post in this thread and say ITA!

My first 2 boys were fully vaxed, we stopped now, but they are 5 and 7. They were vaxed because I was ignorant and thought its just what you do. I found out different, that I could make my own decisions and asked lots of questions read lots of books, did lots of research. My dd is delayed and selectivly vax'd. For me the scientific reasearch/stats that other countries have done was almost enough for me to say no more vaxing!

[autumnstar]

Originally Posted by Kaci How intelligent would it be to disregard all of that because some lady on the internet (with NO kids) posted a video?

[n3w2cl0th]

This is eerily reminiscent of the mama who had the "anti baby-wearing" siggy...and she had no kids....ODD....

[autumnstar]

haha, i never saw that...was there a reason for her no baby wearing? I suppose that you can not wear a child you don't have???