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Old 04-28-2007, 05:28 AM   #11
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Re: "In wake of vaccine, new pneumonia strains emerge"

Yes, I've read that Shingles is appearing in very high numbers amoung teens now, which was unheard of before the CP vaccine.

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Old 04-28-2007, 03:57 PM   #12
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Re: "In wake of vaccine, new pneumonia strains emerge"

I think what is so interesting is that it is among native Alaskans. What is that saying about their immune systems? A couple of thoughts, just rambling...my almost anthropology minor rears its head.
Is there something about their systems that cannot fight this new thread that non-natives can fight? Something going back, waaaay back, to preColumbian times? Think smallpox and influenza among native Americans from the Europeans.
Something environmental? The wild salmon up there, as well as other fish species, and mammals that eat the fish, are showing higher levels of mutations through chemical exposure from our factories down in the continental US. Gary IN air pollution drifts right over there, falls and gets into the food chain...some studies have shown that maternal exposure has already lead to more ear infections because of changes of the development of the inner ear, as well as more cavities due to exposure to a certain pollutant at the stage when teeth are being formed prenatally.
Something else environmental? Meaning, socially, virus can be shared more easily, or has a chance to mutate in a different way?

Thanks for posting this. A very interesting read. Someday, I think the "goal" is to have no more illness and a bazillion vaccines for everything. Unless we make conscious and fully informed decisions. (I'm still learning!)
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:37 PM   #13
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Re: "In wake of vaccine, new pneumonia strains emerge"

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I'm curious. Why do you say that exposure to chicken pox suppressed shingles? I've had shingles so I've read a ton about it. I have never seen anything about exposure to chicken pox suppressing shingles, only that it caused shingles.
Shingles occur when for whatever reason the immune system isn't able to keep the virus "in check" aka under control, in the spinal fluid. So in the weakened state, the virus becomes active again, and that's what shingles is. It's also why shingles affects people in different ways.. because it's entering the body from the spinal fluid.

Exposure to natural chicken pox, provides a natural boosting effect, so that the body's immune system memory cells recognize the virus and keep it "in check" and in it's dormant state.

So far as I know, the whole thing about exposure to chicken pox being the trigger for shingles, just isn't true. The biggest factor in development of shingles is immune system functioning. Shingles can develop at any time if the body is vulnerable and the immune system is functioning at less than optimal.

This is why kids who get the c-pox vaccine are developing shingles without ever having had a clinical case of c-pox... the vaccine introduced the virus into the body, but not as strong an immune response was generated as if they had contracted the virus naturally, plus the vaccine strain is weakened. So the body doesn't have to work as hard to get the virus under control, and can potentially forget easier/faster.

This is really a very simplified explanation, but hopefully it does a bit of justice to the essence of the subject.
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:39 PM   #14
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Re: "In wake of vaccine, new pneumonia strains emerge"

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Originally Posted by MamaEli View Post
I think what is so interesting is that it is among native Alaskans. What is that saying about their immune systems? A couple of thoughts, just rambling...my almost anthropology minor rears its head.
Is there something about their systems that cannot fight this new thread that non-natives can fight? Something going back, waaaay back, to preColumbian times? Think smallpox and influenza among native Americans from the Europeans.
Something environmental? The wild salmon up there, as well as other fish species, and mammals that eat the fish, are showing higher levels of mutations through chemical exposure from our factories down in the continental US. Gary IN air pollution drifts right over there, falls and gets into the food chain...some studies have shown that maternal exposure has already lead to more ear infections because of changes of the development of the inner ear, as well as more cavities due to exposure to a certain pollutant at the stage when teeth are being formed prenatally.
Something else environmental? Meaning, socially, virus can be shared more easily, or has a chance to mutate in a different way?

Thanks for posting this. A very interesting read. Someday, I think the "goal" is to have no more illness and a bazillion vaccines for everything. Unless we make conscious and fully informed decisions. (I'm still learning!)
This really interests me. Do you have any links about how small pox affected Native Alaskans differently? Was it less outbreaks, more, different severity? (Just curious.. I've read some on the history of smallpox, but never about difference between population groups and the severity of the illness - my reading has been more about history and number of cases/ fatalities pre vaccine era, the vaccine originally being outlawed, and then reintroduced and the stuff that goes with that.)
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:10 PM   #15
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Re: "In wake of vaccine, new pneumonia strains emerge"

When I was talking about smallpox and the flu (include cpox in that as well, measles, etc.) the native Americans had never been exposed to those diseases, until the Europeans came. (And the Chinese, but that's another thread...read 1421--The Year China Discovered America for more on that.) What were/are considered common illnesses killed so many native peoples, including the Inuit. Their immune systems were not genetically attuned to those illnesses like the Europeans were, so it really decimated the populations. That's what I was referring to....I don't know about incidence rates v. death rates among certain tribes, but that would be an awesome topic for a thesis.
I was just wondering if there was still some vulnerability genetically to the new strains, perhaps due to their relative isolation compared to other native peoples, and also compared to the possibly inherited antibodies in the blood of the non-native citizens?
The more I think about this, the more interesting it gets.....are setting up a society to be as vulnerable as the native Americans were before Columbus because of lack of exposure? What is one strong strain emerged and we could not fight it off because of inherited weakened immune systems?
Something to think about...first time I've thought about it from that angle, at least...


Oh, and the stuff about toxins: read Living Downstream and Having Faith by Sandra Steingraber
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/re.../dp/0738204676
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