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Old 06-05-2011, 12:19 PM   #11
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Prepuce is the foreskin, the preputal lining is the lining if it.

The frenulum is where the foreskin attaches to the glans, on the underside just below the head. It also houses a bundle of nerves.

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Old 06-05-2011, 12:35 PM   #12
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Got it. That's what I was thinking. It still sounds like it's a little more invasive than I want, but better than the other methods. I think a consult with a urologist is the best idea at this point. I am not very comfortable having this done outside of a medical setting. It just doesn't feel as safe to me. No offense to anyone who chose a mohel, of course! It's just my preference.

As for religious reasons, no, we are not Jewish. We're Christian, but believe in observing some of the OT (Torah).
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Old 06-05-2011, 01:05 PM   #13
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Brit Milah is the only way mohelim perform circs as far as i understand it; we asked our rabbi this same thing -- would periah satisfy the requirement and did she know a mohel willing to perform periah. But no mohel i have ever heard of is doing brit periah -- it was basically done away with a loooong time ago within Judaism (like with the advent of rabbinic Judaism).

You may be better off with a urologist in your situation.

I'm curious what religious significance this has for you if you're not Jewish, since my understanding (and correct me, please, if I'm wrong here), is that Christians believe that the coming of Jesus invalidated/superseded the tenets of the Torah (what Christians call the Old Testament) and that Torahidic law was then replaced by Jesus's teachings, which became the New Testament (which as far as I understand, actually outlawed circumcision at least for a time). I'm not being snarky, and am genuinely curious.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:37 PM   #14
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

I highly suggest using a plastic surgeon. He/she would be the only option that would go into it with the idea of preservation and the skill set to know what to do. The whole goal of a plastic surgeon is to preserve nerves and skin integrity(which would lesson scarring and the host of other problems caused by circumcision).
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:44 PM   #15
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

I thought the Bible specifically said *not* to circumcise in the New testament I just don't want you to do it for the wrong reasons.

~Acts 15: 1-2, 7, 10 "And some men came and were teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.' But Paul and Barnabas together had great dissention and disputing with these men. . . Then Peter stood up and said to them '...Why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?"


~Rom. 2: 17-19 "But if you bear the name Jews and rely upon the Law...You who boast in the Law through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God?...For indeed your circumcision [i.e. the mark that is already on your genitals] is of value if you faithfully keep the Law, but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has been made obsolete. If therefore the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be counted the same as your circumcision? And will not he who is physically uncircumcised , if he keeps the Law, will he not condemn you who, through the letter of the Law and through circmcision, are a transgressor of the Law. For he is not a Jew who is one externally. Neither is circumcision that which is external in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly. And circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit. . .and hispraise is not from men, but from God."

~Rom. 4:10 "How then was this faith reckoned to Abraham? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. He received the symbol of circumcision. . . that he might be the father of all who believe without circumcision. . . who follow in the steps of our father Abraham which were in his uncircumcision."

~1 Cor. 7:17 "As God has called each man, in this manner let him walk. And thus I command in all the churches. Was any man called in the circumcision [i.e. Old Covenant]? Let him not try to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in the uncircumcision [i.e. New Covenant]? Let him not be circumcised! Circumcision is nothing. And uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called."

~Gal. 5:2 "Behold, I Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing!"

~Gal. 5:3 "And I testify again to every male who receives circumcision, that he is in debt to keep the whole Law. You who do so have been severed from Christ. . . you have fallen from grace."

~Col. 2:8-14 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men...rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form and in Him you have been made whole.. and in Him you were also circumcised, with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, and raised up with Him through faith. And...in the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him. . . having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us which were hostile to us. And He has taken them out of the way, having nailed them to the cross."

~Lev.19:28 "You shall not make any cuts in your flesh."

~Phil. 3:2 "Beware of the dogs! Beware of the evil workers! Beware of the mutilation! For WE are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and put NO confidence in the flesh!"
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:45 PM   #16
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

keysersoze, I don't mind you asking at all! I think most Christians do believe what you mentioned (Jesus did away with the Old Testament, created a New Covenant and new teachings), but we believe that Jesus was a Jew and that when Christianity formed, it was originally more of a sect of Judaism than a new religion. I believe that most early Christians observed Torah to some extent and I believe that God created Torah for a purpose, not as a legalistic list of rules that were impossible to follow. I believe it helps us to better understand Him and His plan for our lives. As far as which parts of Torah we observe, we are still exploring this. We observe many of the festivals of the Old Testament, we abstain during my menstrual period, we eat kosher, etc, but I'm still learning and growing and not "set" in my ways with much of this.

Regarding circumcision, this thread has reaffirmed my thoughts about whether we should consult with a urologist. I think that will be my first step (and I'll see if my pediatrician will give me a referral if necessary), and I will ask the urologist about the plastic surgeon as well.

The annoying thing is that right now, DH just graduated and is job hunting, so I have no idea where we will be living by October when our son arrives. I'm trying to plan ahead, but I can't actually do a consult with a urologist until DH gets a job.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:48 PM   #17
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

USMCgirl, thanks for your thoughts. The issue of Old Covenant/New Covenant is definitely controversial, but my general belief is that the verses in the NT are referring to the fact that circumcision does not play a part in salvation, not that it is outlawed.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:48 PM   #18
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Here ya go:

JewsAgainstCircumcision.org and beyondthebris.com

Bris shalom is a Jewish practice that requires no circumcision so you can be worry free and keep the kid whole =)
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:14 PM   #19
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

I would suggest skipping the urologist. He will do it but has no skills that make him better at preserving the integrity of the tissues. Urologists are for the inner workings of the urinary system. My nephew was done by a urologist at the age of 7 and it is a sad thing to see. Just go straight to the plastic surgeon.
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:26 PM   #20
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Thanks for this great information ladies... we just found out on Thursday that we are having a boy and this topic has been greatly debated the last few days. This is some great information to think on...
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