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Old 11-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #31
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

Thank you so much for sharing. This is to my only parenting decision I regret! I have become an intactivist! If we have another son he will stay whole! I actively tell people about my regret and was able to educate a friend and tell her my story and she decided against having her boy circ'd. I wish so bad that I would have done more research on the topic prior to my sons birth I'm making up for it in the fight to save other little boys now. your story really hit home, I feel like I could of written it word for word.
From friends I know with both intact and cut boys, they say it has not been an issue and the boys don't even notice! Thanks again for sharing your story.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:42 PM   #32
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

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The thing about intactivists' "intensity" is that once you get it, once you see what circumcision really is, it is IMPOSSIBLE to think, "Oh, it's just another of a million choices you have to make for a baby." I spent most of my life thinking that circumcision was normal and necessary. Then I spent a few months thinking that either was a fine decision, because there were so many conflicting opinions. Then one night, it came to me: he was going to be born with a foreskin, so god or nature thought it needed to be there, and it wasn't my body, and it wasn't my choice. That was when I told dh no way, no how, divorce me. Even still, it took me longer to get so passionate. Every human being has a right to his or her whole body. Period.

As for car seat evangelism, I REALLY do not get why people get offended by this. We turned ds1 and ds2 forward at one year because we didn't know any better. When we learned that ERFing was safer, we kept dd and ds3 RFing for much longer. There was no drama, no "feeling attacked" by car seat evangelists. I was just happy that I learned how my kids could be even safer in the car. I suspect that people that get offended by this are insecure. Having my kids front-facing at age 1 didn't mean I was a bad mom - it just meant I didn't know. There was no shame in it - just always trying to learn and grow and do our best. Letting ego get in the way of doing what's right by a child is silly.
ITA. I feel it's definitely a thing to be passionate about. If you read a thread "How do I take care of my circumsized girl's diapers" I'm sure there would be no gentle answer tell the OP how to care for her - everyone would be outraged. I just don't get how it's so normal and ok to cut off a foreskin, but to cut off a baby girl's clitoris. They are exactly the same to me. It's unfair, unnatural and against that human's right as far as I'm concerned. I don't always get involved in the circ debates on places like diaper chatter, but I'm glad some people do. I know a lot of moms that don't do any circ research, and who knows, that might be the waking point to make them do more research. If there are people out there that don't feel afraid to say something, those are the people that could possibly be saving that boy's forskin, and like OPs' story, possibly save the family from lots of pain and anguish.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:51 PM   #33
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

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ITA. I feel it's definitely a thing to be passionate about. If you read a thread "How do I take care of my circumsized girl's diapers" I'm sure there would be no gentle answer tell the OP how to care for her - everyone would be outraged. I just don't get how it's so normal and ok to cut off a foreskin, but to cut off a baby girl's clitoris. They are exactly the same to me. It's unfair, unnatural and against that human's right as far as I'm concerned.
Because they cannot see past their cultural blinders. All their lives they have been told, tacitly, via locker room stories, etc., that the foreskin is superfluous, unnecessary, dirty, gross and has to be removed. Most people are not curious enough to challenge any culturally-received information.

Now, someone is going to come here and say how male and female circumcision are not the same, that it is terrible for the woman, that she can never have an orgasm, that it is done to control women's sexuality, etc. What this person does not know is that they are exactly the same. Most female circumcisions remove only the clitoral hood and are done by doctors in clean hospitals or offices. This is exactly the same as male circumcision. Most circumcised women like sex just fine and have no problem orgasming. They think female circumcision is really important and necessary. Some men have very little sensation left because of their circumcision, and have trouble orgasming. Male circumcision was also explained as a way to control make sexuality, both in medieval times by a Jewish rabbi and in the 1800s by US doctors. That was the entire point - make sex less pleasurable. They are EXACTLY the same.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:56 PM   #34
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

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Because they cannot see past their cultural blinders. All their lives they have been told, tacitly, via locker room stories, etc., that the foreskin is superfluous, unnecessary, dirty, gross and has to be removed. Most people are not curious enough to challenge any culturally-received information.

Now, someone is going to come here and say how male and female circumcision are not the same, that it is terrible for the woman, that she can never have an orgasm, that it is done to control women's sexuality, etc. What this person does not know is that they are exactly the same. Most female circumcisions remove only the clitoral hood and are done by doctors in clean hospitals or offices. This is exactly the same as male circumcision. Most circumcised women like sex just fine and have no problem orgasming. They think female circumcision is really important and necessary. Some men have very little sensation left because of their circumcision, and have trouble orgasming. Male circumcision was also explained as a way to control make sexuality, both in medieval times by a Jewish rabbi and in the 1800s by US doctors. That was the entire point - make sex less pleasurable. They are EXACTLY the same.
Yep, totally agree. I don't care if it's genitals, an ear, a finger - you just should not cut off another human's being body part.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:58 PM   #35
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

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Yep, totally agree. I don't care if it's genitals, an ear, a finger - you just should not cut off another human's being body part.
General rule of thumb: Don't cut off part of someone's body unless they ask you to.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:07 PM   #36
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

I never understood the hygiene defense as well. To me (and this is blunt, kinda person I am)

How is it any harder to clean an intact male than your daughters (or yourself!) vagina. Think of all the folds and creases us women have! I don't know, but I was thinking as I was cooking (random thoughts) a boy has to be easier to clean intact or not. When my DD has a poop diaper and it's a nasty one...I have to clean every crevice! Might as well cut up the girl too. But like you all said..it's that jaw drop reaction you get "How dare you mention girl circumcision!" well...same as the boy ya know!
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:10 PM   #37
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Honestly, I feel that when people compare female circ with male circ, they lose credibility. They are not the same. We spoke with several doctors about this issue and did a lot of research, so I dislike it when people assume/imply I'm ignorant or uninformed.

I'm not pro-circ, but my son was circ'd. His father is Jewish, and it was important to him. I dont think (at least, I hope) this is true of Diaper Swappers mamas, but a lot of anti-circ groups have roots in anti-semitism.

To the OP, thank you for sharing your story. I can't imagine seeing my DS in pain like that either.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:23 PM   #38
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

I was 16 when my 1st DS was born and thought circing was the norm. After knowing what I know now there is NO WAY I could ever have any of my other boys circ'd. Thanks for sharing your story and I couldn't imagine being in the same room while they did a circ
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:31 PM   #39
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

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It is from posts and stories like these that helped me make the right decision to leave our son intact. If it wasn't for people who shared their experiences, stories, and knowledge then my son would have been cut.

I don't know if this baby is a boy but if it is, he will remain perfectly whole thanks to this site and people sharing their info/stories.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:32 PM   #40
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Re: Circumcision has profoundly affected every member of my family...

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Honestly, I feel that when people compare female circ with male circ, they lose credibility. They are not the same. We spoke with several doctors about this issue and did a lot of research, so I dislike it when people assume/imply I'm ignorant or uninformed.

I'm not pro-circ, but my son was circ'd. His father is Jewish, and it was important to him. I dont think (at least, I hope) this is true of Diaper Swappers mamas, but a lot of anti-circ groups have roots in anti-semitism.

To the OP, thank you for sharing your story. I can't imagine seeing my DS in pain like that either.
From a purely biological standpoint, the clitoral hood and the foreskin are comprised on the same tissue, nerves, and structure. They are of different size but generate the same sensation and serve a similar purpose. Therefore, many (myself included) feel that male and female circumcision are equivalent.
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