Give me good stories about vaccinations

[z2akids]

Originally Posted by Lisathena https://m.facebook.com/note.php?note..._user=40008824 This was a pretty good read posted yesterday on FB Has LINKS {gasp} to back it up

I skimmed about 1/2 way down the facebook post. I didn't see any new arguments in the part I looked at. It is the same old list of reasons that vaccines are bad for you. Sure, there are links. However, the links do not mean what the poster claims they mean and her interpretation of them does not evidence an understanding of statistics or how vaccines are produced, etc.

If you do a search on these boards, you can find each of these arguments expressed in various vaccination threads along with explanations for what the information really means along with links to better explain it.

I will admit that the whale.to site likely says exactly what she claims it says. But, then again, I believe that is the anti-vax/conspiracy website that also claims that the holocaust didn't happen. I literally cringe anytime I see it listed as "evidence" against vaccination (or anything else for that matter). http://www.whale.to/b/holocaust_revisionism.html

[Lisathena]

She has links to CDC and the Pharma insert links, how is that conspiracy? The holocaust happened i dont know what that has to do w/ vac's LOL

and i personally dont need to do more research, i have spent HOURS going over all this. just thought someone would appreciate that woman's post for all the links and such. They can make their own interpretation, but the facts dont lie...

[z2akids]

I'm heading out to pick up my son to take him to the doctor. Wrestling injury. Hopefully Janine or someone else will respond in the meantime. I bow to her greater knowledge of micro and chemistry.

[Janine]

Originally Posted by Lisathena https://m.facebook.com/note.php?note..._user=40008824 This was a pretty good read posted yesterday on FB Has LINKS {gasp} to back it up

Geez, this is a mess, but I will try to explain many errors I find on this. For one, the "ingredients" as she calls them are not all present in vaccines. As the link she gives from the CDC clearly states, the list includes media and other items not present in the vaccine. For two, she clearly doesn't understand the testing process. For three, the pertusis outbreak where she infers that the vaccine was ineffective, is a common layman mistake when it comes to vaccine data. As I have already mentioned on this thread (and ad nauseum on countless others), the percentage of infected people who have been vaccinated gives us NO relevant data. What is relevant data when it comes to vaccine efficacy? Simple. The percentage of vaccinated people infected I challenge anyone to find a study that looks at the latter that finds the pertusis vaccine to be ineffective.

Where she is going with the reports of vaccine reactions, I have no idea. There is no denial that some people have reactions to vaccines. How do we know a reaction is rare? By comparing the number of people who experience a reaction vs the number who get the vaccine. The fact that there are a lot of reports of a reaction on a website designed for people to report reactions is apparently shocking to this person, although I'm not sure why. The fact remains that the severe reactions are indeed rare.

The "Big Study" she mentions that claims to show that vaccinated children are less healthy? Talk about a joke. It wasn't a study at all but instead a survey filled out by a self-selected group of largely anti-vax parents. There is NO study showing that unvaccinated kids are healthier. I welcome anyone who can provide such a study.

Again, she mentions this "diseases were in decline before the vaccine" line and then proceeds to link to mortality graphs. Mortality does not indicate a decrease in infection rates as we have already covered countless times in this thread. I encourage this woman, and anyone else, to look at the infection rates of diseases. They clearly show that the infections held steady and then plummeted after the vaccine was released.

I could go on, but I don't have all day. Suffice to say that anti-vax websites do not count as "citations" in my book. Studies do. And the few studies or data that she does link to doesn't say what she claims it does. Big surprise.

[*Peanut*]

So the moms who give their children immunity through bfing - how did you get that immunity? Did you have polio, measles, mumps, etc and got immunity that way, or did you get your immunity through vaccinations? Or are you just talking about giving your kids immunity to the colds you are catching/fighting that season?

[jemilyon]

Originally Posted by *Peanut* So the moms who give their children immunity through bfing - how did you get that immunity? Did you have polio, measles, mumps, etc and got immunity that way, or did you get your immunity through vaccinations? Or are you just talking about giving your kids immunity to the colds you are catching/fighting that season?

Im talking about immunity to the infections of the season. If either if my kids are sick and im not i purposefully catch their germs on order to help dd (ds is no bfing) who is only 20 mo and therefore does not have a mature immune system yet.
I was explaining why we dont use antibiotics, although if truly necessary I would. It is a last resort that we havent had to take with either child (ds is 6 and in school!).
I appreciate the time u took to explain Janine although I didnt look at the link. Too annoying on my phone!

[z2akids]

Originally Posted by Lisathena She has links to CDC and the Pharma insert links, how is that conspiracy? The holocaust happened i dont know what that has to do w/ vac's LOL and i personally dont need to do more research, i have spent HOURS going over all this. just thought someone would appreciate that woman's post for all the links and such. They can make their own interpretation, but the facts dont lie...

The Facebook post utilizes whale.to as one of it's sources for anti-vaccine information. I wanted to point out that that site is not credible. Not only do they have wild accusations about vaccinations, but another part of their website claims that the holocaust did not happen. IMO (and it certainly is just that) I cannot take any information seriously on that website because of its obvious problems with reality in other areas (namely, how would one trust the information about vaccines when the same people are claiming that the holocaust was made up?)

I didn't say that the CDC links were conspiracy. The poster very clearly states at the start that she does not have a scientific background and her understanding of those links is lacking, likely as a result of this lack of background.

Some further information about the ingredients in the vaccines. The Facebook post makes it sound like there are cells or tissue from aborted fetuses in vaccines. This simply isn't true. (Even the Catholic Church approves use of these vaccines). Viruses cannot survive in just a test tube full of water or saline, etc. They need cells to reproduce and stay active/alive. There were two fetuses aborted in the mid-60s/early 70s. Cells from the tissue of those aborted fetuses are now called a cell line. The cells divide and grow and reproduce and die and so now 40+ years later there are cells in a lab somewhere that can trace their origin back to those 2 fetuses. Those cells did not come directly from those fetuses. Those cells are the many generations of cell reproduction removed from those original aborted fetuses. The cells are used to grow the virus to make the vaccine. Those cells aren't in the vaccine, but the virus used them as a growth medium and therefore they are listed in the ingredients. This is similar to the use of other mamalian cells listed in the ingredients of vaccines.

Janine has in the past done a fabulous job of explaining thimerosal in vaccines. In addition, thimerosal has been removed from all routine childhood vaccines (with the exception of some influenza vaccines) since 2001. If you choose to vaccinate your child against influenza, simply ask your pediatrician to make certain they are using one that does not contain thimerosal. My children's pediatrician doesn't even stock thimerosal containing influenza vaccine.

As far as VAERS, it is a self reporting site. This has benefits, but also serious drawbacks. Anyone can go on that site and report an adverse reaction to a vaccine. I could go on there this afternoon and claim that my child had seizures after being vaccinated. Except in the most serious cases (primarily deaths) the reports are not investigated. Therefore, if I made that report, it would eventually work it's way through the system and seizure would wind up on the list of possible reactions to the vaccine. There is no way to verify if there was a seizure or if it was vaccine related. If you look at the CDC's website, it lists potential adverse reactions and also states that in many cases they are listing it, but are unable to confirm that it was a vaccine reaction.

There are more problems with that Facebook post, but I honestly don't have the energy to continue. A search of this forum will give you lots more information on why that Facebook post is not worth looking at for vaccine information. There might be little kernels of truth in that post, but they are so lost in the exaggeration and twisting of facts that it is hard to even pull them out.

Ultimately, each parent has to make decisions for themselves for their family. However, IMO people should be looking at reputable sites and they need to understand what that information means. Whale.to is far from a reputable site and other information in that Facebook post is unlikely to wind up in the medical journals. I recommend when you (as in general you) read something like this and it concerns you - take it to your pediatrician, who has years of education on how to differentiate between the facts and the hype.

[Janine]

Originally Posted by Lisathena and i personally dont need to do more research, i have spent HOURS going over all this. just thought someone would appreciate that woman's post for all the links and such. They can make their own interpretation, but the facts dont lie...

I agree that facts don't lie, but unfortunately this woman is not giving facts. I think it is kind of unfortunate that you don't feel the need to do more research if you believe the things she says and yet they can be proven to be wrong.

[Lisathena]

My opinions are NOT based on that womans post. I truely thought it could help. I had no idea it would get picked to shreds.

My opinions are based on many hours of research/videos and books read...balanced books So i am happy w/ my decision and dont need to go into it further.

i appreciate your response...i truly dont think you can trust any "statistics" they all probably sway the way the original party wants them too....there is no concrete way to know...

As a parent you just need to read/study and come to a decision best for your family. I have done that...

[jemilyon]

Originally Posted by Lisathena My opinions are NOT based on that womans post. I truely thought it could help. I had no idea it would get picked to shreds. My opinions are based on many hours of research/videos and books read...balanced books So i am happy w/ my decision and dont need to go into it further. i appreciate your response...i truly dont think you can trust any "statistics" they all probably sway the way the original party wants them too....there is no concrete way to know... As a parent you just need to read/study and come to a decision best for your family. I have done that...

But, I do give statistical studies credibility based on who funds them and peer review. I'm in psychology so I understand how clinical research can be very helpful and we (our society) base A LOT on them. However, there have been many clinically "sound" studies that have been proven wrong, biased, and invalid over the years that were initially accepted. There have also been plenty of medical procedures/practices that were initially introduced as safe only to be found unsafe and recalled. In addition, long term effects are almost impossible to truly know.

Again, to each family their own educated choice!