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Old 04-04-2012, 06:48 PM   #41
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Oh and I have been using Whole Foods as my big box mart! I purchase things in bulk that I know we will use that are on sale. They give 10% the sale price for bulk purchases so it is fairly good, and seeing that we don't have Azure Standard out here it helps a bit. Next month I will be placing another Frontier Co-op order and will be getting some spices and such.
Ugh, I wish we had something like that near us in central NY. I know Azure Standard doesn't come farther east than like... Iowa or Illinois or something like that... I wonder about Frontier? We certainly don't have a Whole Foods. Our closest thing to a box store that carries healthy whole food and/or gluten-free stuff is Wegmans, and that's a good forty minutes away. *le sigh* I can order some stuff bulk through a local "farm market" store but the lady in charge of their bulk ordering is.. well.. a bit scatterbrained and it took me two months to get a 25lb bag of short-grain brown rice. So I dunno...

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Old 04-04-2012, 06:58 PM   #42
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Wow, $150 every week and a half is good! Do you buy all organic? We are paying at least that every week right now and the only thing right now I'm not buying organic is cheese! I am trying to talk hubby into buying bulk beef/pork and also trying to find the best deals on flour etc in bulk to save some cash.
Okay, this made me feel so much better about our grocery budget... we just started a budgeting program at the start of March (it's YNAB, for those interested, and I it so far) and I estimated amounts for the month. I estimated $300 (thinking that would be high) and ended up spending $358. Then dh was visiting his family and my sil asked what we (2 adults, and a 1-yr-old who still nurses quite a bit) spend, to compare to themselves (1 adults), and they average about $280. So then I thought, I'll ask my friend whose dd is a couple months older than my ds and who is completely weaned, since that would be a more accurate comparison... and she was like, "Usually about $130. I tried keeping track to bring it down to $100, though."

I felt like Such. A. Failure. As a budgeting mama.

I reminded myself that we are still trying new things and figuring out what works for us on a smaller (and therefore, more expensive unit price) scale what with a recent gluten intolerance diagnosis in the family...

...and that we don't eat a ton of processed garbage...

...and that we recently started getting grassfed beef...

...but I was still feeling a little down on myself. I left the budget at $300 for this month, and am making some adjustments to the menu, to see if I can keep it at $300, but I still felt guilty.

Thanks for helping me to remember that eating healthy does cost more in the "here and now"... but that in the long run, it is just that... an investment in our HEALTH.

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:00 PM   #43
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Hi Mamas,
I'm kinda new to DS and interested in sharing on this topic. I've put a lot of time into reading and researching nutrition. My background: over the last decade shifted from mostly vegetarian, then to 100% raw (with lots of cleanses too) for several years, then to traditional about 3 years ago. Currently I'm getting my master's in Holistic Nutrition.

One thing that I have heard over and over is the importance of bone and mineral broths, but I am surprised to see no mention of them here? Anyone doing them? I make them almost every week, and find them amazing for my family. Plus easy and very frugal. Anyone read/reading Deep Nutrition by Shanahan?

To the milk discussion - an alternative view on raw milk: not all people do well with it. My stepson (now 4 1/2, been his stepmom since just before 2) was given a lot of raw, organic milk by his mom for a long time. She was convinced that it would be the best thing for him. I don't fault her for it, I would have thought that too from reading the pro raw milk info out there. However - he had frequent sinus congestion, would get deep lung congestion with every cold, and had a bumpy rash on his bum which can be indicative of allergies and other digestive disturbances. Also important, he's Type O blood, and Type Os typically have the worst time with dairy of all the blood types. Short story is, we got him off milk after three different docs (DOM, Kines., MD) tested him as allergic to dairy. Since then, no bad lung stuff, and he doesn't sound stuffed up when breathing at night. But the rash persisted, and now he's on a candida cleanse (with his mom too, she's also Type O). Finally, after years of trying to clear it up, the rash is gone! My guess is the dairy threw off his digestive flora balance early on (dysbiosis), along with weakening his immune function and probably creating inflammation in the digestive membrane, which then doesn't function as well as a barrier to unwanted particles entering the bloodstream.

I'm writing this not to turn anyone off raw milk - I love raw dairy (especially goat yogurt, yum!) and as a Type B do great with it - but to let anyone know who might be having problems that dairy is not necessarily good for everyone. I would recommend allergy testing if you have any concerns. And/or, take the person/child off dairy for a few weeks-month, see any differences, and then try some again and see what happens.

Hope this wasn't too long for my first post here, just wanting to share our experiences in case anyone else can benefit!
Okay.... can you tell me more about where I can read about blood types and diet? I've heard of it before but I've never looked into it...

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Old 04-05-2012, 06:25 AM   #44
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Re: Nourishing Traditions Support Thread - March

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Ugh, I wish we had something like that near us in central NY. I know Azure Standard doesn't come farther east than like... Iowa or Illinois or something like that... I wonder about Frontier? We certainly don't have a Whole Foods. Our closest thing to a box store that carries healthy whole food and/or gluten-free stuff is Wegmans, and that's a good forty minutes away. *le sigh* I can order some stuff bulk through a local "farm market" store but the lady in charge of their bulk ordering is.. well.. a bit scatterbrained and it took me two months to get a 25lb bag of short-grain brown rice. So I dunno...

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Azure Standard goes to Ohio. A few months ago I talked to them and they said that they would like to expand more out here but they are doing it slowly. Personally, I would be happy if they went to PA as I get my milk and meat from there. I have even thought about going to Ohio just to get some things but that is a long drive from here.

Frontier delivers anywhere. Do you have any friends you can order with? If so you can start your own co-op and the prices are very reasonable. I did it and wasn't hard. You just have to have a $250 minimum to get free shipping. However you can't get all the things at Frontier that you can get at Azure Standard.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #45
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Re: Nourishing Traditions Support Thread - March

Just got NT book yesterday from Amazon. Stayd up late reading (not all of it though, that book is a monster!) and then talked about it quite a bit with DH this morning. I think we're gonna try to incorporate this into our family as much as we can. . .I'm still not ready to give up on being veg, but I think there is a lot we can use anyway. I'd love to get backyard chickens. . .and I *might* be at a point to add fish to my diet.
What I really want to do is try raw milk--gotta find out where to get it here. We have all shown some dairy sensitivities in our family, but I am wondering if raw milk will "solve" this. I'd LOVE to make my own yogurt.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #46
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Re: Nourishing Traditions Support Thread - March

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Originally Posted by Hannah Elise View Post
I felt like Such. A. Failure. As a budgeting mama.

I reminded myself that we are still trying new things and figuring out what works for us on a smaller (and therefore, more expensive unit price) scale what with a recent gluten intolerance diagnosis in the family...

...and that we don't eat a ton of processed garbage...

...and that we recently started getting grassfed beef...

...but I was still feeling a little down on myself. I left the budget at $300 for this month, and am making some adjustments to the menu, to see if I can keep it at $300, but I still felt guilty.

Thanks for helping me to remember that eating healthy does cost more in the "here and now"... but that in the long run, it is just that... an investment in our HEALTH.

</ramble>

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Hannah Elise: We spend a little more than what you are spending, even with going to several different stores to get the best/bulk prices on organic stuff...so I wouldn't compare yourself to someone who isn't eating the same quality of food. I agree, it is an investment. It may seem like more now, but can you imagine avoiding cancer? Or diabetes? Or dementia later in life? Not to sound like an ad, but: "Priceless" . The monetary amount saved by living a healthier, longer life must be in the tens to hundreds of thousands in medical bills. However, seeing the healthy rosy cheeks of my sweeties and knowing they are eating the best is the biggest joy to me

On blood type: the most well-known blood type book is "Eat Right for Your Type" by Peter D'Adamo. You can find them at yard sales often as it was a diet fad for awhile. I found the main conceptual info to be good, and the general guidelines for each blood type have been very useful.

I lived in a community for 10 years with about 25 people. It was a mostly veg diet, all organic, and moved into raw for awhile. What was interesting is that the people who generally got the most excited on occasions when animal protein was served, and who would make an effort to acquire it when eating out, turned out to be the B's and O's. But 80% of the community was A's! (A's are the most adaptable to vegetarianism, according to this theory.) So most of the community was feeling fine on a veg diet, but those few B's and O's were struggling...me included! Its a fascinating take on diet and individual biochemistry, and especially interesting if you're into ancestry and genealogy.

FYI: I would not recommend subsequent books by D'Adamo on the "genotype diet" (his creation). It was very hit-or-miss on whether it worked for different individuals. Personally did not work for me. Its a more complex and subtle theory which leaves it open to misinterpretation as well, unlike the blood type diet which is just based on your blood type.


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Originally Posted by kismetbaby View Post
Just got NT book yesterday from Amazon. Stayd up late reading (not all of it though, that book is a monster!) and then talked about it quite a bit with DH this morning. I think we're gonna try to incorporate this into our family as much as we can. . .I'm still not ready to give up on being veg, but I think there is a lot we can use anyway. I'd love to get backyard chickens. . .and I *might* be at a point to add fish to my diet.
What I really want to do is try raw milk--gotta find out where to get it here. We have all shown some dairy sensitivities in our family, but I am wondering if raw milk will "solve" this. I'd LOVE to make my own yogurt.
Kismetbaby: Good to hear you are reading NT! Its a classic

On raw milk, and on doing any change in diet:
*It takes about 3 months for your body and digestive system to adapt to dietary changes, for example making more/new enzymes for new types of foods. So easing into changes, and giving the body time to adapt, gently, gives the best chances of successful shifts.* Just learned that from my colon hydrotherapist

Freedom: Giving food choices always helps a lot with my DSS if he's feeling picky. That way I'm not forcing him to eat something, HE gets to pick what he wants (out of the healthy options I'm giving him, of course!) And I really liked what another mama said somewhere on DS, don't remember where - that she doesn't fight food battles with her kids. If they don't eat, there's nothing else until the next meal time. We have snacks, but again, its baby carrots & hummus, or a few org chips, or a piece of turkey.

Thanks for chatting about this stuff, it's so fun for me! To bring it into real life: today I'm making some bone broth for the next few days of cooking, and chili for dinner tonight. Also some salad that wintered over and is growing great already in the garden- chard, parsley, kale - topped with some flax oil & balsamic. Yum!
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:52 PM   #47
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I lived in a community for 10 years with about 25 people. It was a mostly veg diet, all organic, and moved into raw for awhile. What was interesting is that the people who generally got the most excited on occasions when animal protein was served, and who would make an effort to acquire it when eating out, turned out to be the B's and O's. But 80% of the community was A's! (A's are the most adaptable to vegetarianism, according to this theory.) So most of the community was feeling fine on a veg diet, but those few B's and O's were struggling...me included! Its a fascinating take on diet and individual biochemistry, and especially interesting if you're into ancestry and genealogy.
Out of curiosity.. does he touch on AB at all? That's my blood type.

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Old 04-06-2012, 06:02 PM   #48
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Re: Nourishing Traditions Support Thread - March

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Out of curiosity.. does he touch on AB at all? That's my blood type.

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Wow, you're a rare one! He does, though as a developing blood type, AB is still a bit of a wild card. A condensed story about blood type (at least what I remember from the book):

- All humans were type O hunter-gatherers about 40,000 yrs ago. O's do well on a mixed meat/veggie/fruit/nut diet. The worst foods for O's are wheat and dairy (domesticated foods - neither of which would have been available to hunter-gatherers). O's are a very hardy type, do well with strenuous exercise and have strong physical constitutions. Pretty much all Africans, Aborigines/Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans are type O. My mom from northern Sweden is also O - her ancestors were semi-nomadic reindeer herders. O's have higher stomach acid and digest meat well.

-About 15-20k years ago the blood type A split off and evolved where people were settled in the middle east fertile crescent. Type A had stronger immunity to contagious diseases which would run through settled communities. Also A does better with domesticated plants, such as grains, beans, and soy. The majority of Western European people are A's. A's do well with chicken (domesticated meat) but not as well with some other meats. Type A's tend to have low stomach acid (needed to digest protein) and higher carb digesting enzymes. A's do best with rhythmic, calming exercise like yoga, walking, and swimming.

-Type B split off type O sometime shortly after, I think it was approx 15k yrs ago, in the central Eurasian plains. Type B does the best of all types with dairy, and developed among nomadic herders who relied upon their animals for milk and meat. This is the blood type of the Mongolians, and is found in a clearly defined area from China and Mongolia to the Urals, then in decreasing numbers up to Germany and Austria (the final halting point of the Mongolian invasion of Europe). My dad who is Czech/German is a B, and so am I. B's can eat a very diverse range spanning the more veg A diet to the more meat-based O diet, but need to avoid chicken, corn, and wheat.

-Type AB is evolving now, and in fact did not exist more than 1200 years ago! Its a mix of types B and A, with a little O in there too. Its the most complex and difficult to define type - I am going to direct you to the summary on D'Adamo's website but you probably also will want to read that chapter in the book for a fuller description...http://www.dadamo.com/bloodtype_AB.htm

Hope this info helps! I find it fascinating, especially since I love learning about human prehistory and migrations.

There's also the factors of individual ancestry - such as if your ancestors lived near the ocean, and ate a lot of fish, you may have a nutritional requirement of higher iodine. So IMHO each individual needs to take into account blood type, ancestry, as well as where/how you were raised and your current climate/activity level/lifestyle.

Eg., I grew up in the NW which is humid, but now live in NM (super dry!) so I need to eat more fats to keep my body lubricated and tissues flexible, along with more liquids. What fats? Then I would look at my blood type (B) and ancestry (N. European) and eat dairy, wild game/lamb, salmon, sardines, lots of fish oil.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:52 PM   #49
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Re: Nourishing Traditions Support Thread - March

That's really interesting!
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:17 PM   #50
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Thanks for the info, tandiwe! I am going to see if my library has that book... I wanna say I've seen it on a shelf at some point. I'm an absolute "mutt" (although my maternal side likes to cling to their Scottish heritage). On the paternal side I am equal parts Polish, German, Scottish and Welsh (my grandmother actually came over from the UK at age 20). On the maternal side, there is Scottish, Czech, Polish, French Indian, German... and I may be forgetting some. LQTM. So! I'm all over the map. I was recently diagnosed as gluten intolerant, so it's interesting to look at my roots and try to divine where that came from...

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