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Old 07-03-2012, 09:44 AM   #41
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

seems to me that statistically there would a be a higher percentage of mental illness were spanked just because majority or parents spank or hit. i dont hit my children because i feel it's very disrespectful. i would leave a spouse that ever hit me

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Old 07-03-2012, 09:47 AM   #42
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by qsefthuko View Post
Read the article. Slapping, hitting, pushing, and shoving are different from a disciplinary spanking on the bottom. The above is I would be be accompanied by verbal and emotional abuse as well.
spanking is hitting .
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Hit: To come into contact with forcefully; strike:
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:35 AM   #43
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by dancermommy1 View Post

Funny, it's well established that incentive methods with MAYBE some "light" discipline (e.g. "no" with an unpleasant sound or odor) are far more effective in animal training than corporal punishment. Yet, we fail to transfer that knowledge to humans, who are also animals, and exhibit many of the same behaviors...
Actually I disagree. I remember going through puppy kindergarten and we had to bring the puppies in with pinch collars. Teaching the puppy to sit involved a light, quick tug up on the leash, pinching the collar, combined with a tap on the bottom, even going so far as to physically shove the dog's bottom down. And anyone who has watched "The Dog Whisperer" knows that with the aggressive dogs, he certainly gets more agressively physical, to the point of holding dogs on the ground, forcing them to lay down, until they calm down. Even if you disagree with his methods, the number of sucess stories he does have points to the physical discipline he does use being very effective. And all across the animal kingdom, animal parents, from dogs to cats to whatever, use physical methods to discipline their litters, from small bites and nips to swats with the paw to whatever else. Physical discipline is certainly alive and well across the animal kingdom.

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Originally Posted by mibarra View Post
I agree with you on spankings there. DD1 ran out into the street, and other than me grabbing her shirt and yanking her backwards off her feet, would have been hit by a car. I did spank her. But not everyone does. For many people spanking is the go to discipline method, even if it's a swat on the butt. They get a swat for everything, and a harder spanking for more serious infractions. And then when it comes to using objects, some people hit much harder with an open hand than with a spatula or spoon. My point was most people have a different idea of what constitutes a spanking. One poster made the analogy that spanking and hitting are not the same, just like cheddar and swiss are not the same, while both still cheese. I think that's not necessarily fair, because there is clear delineation between types of cheeses, cars, etc, but no clear delineation between spanking and hitting.

I guess I'm really curious at what point on the continuum people who spank vs. People who don't classify it as abuse, and if there's a difference.
I totally agree that physical discipline is on a continuum. That's part of what makes it SO hard to conduct studies like this. Spanking's definition is subjective. Just like there's no clear boundary between when a sprinkle becomes a drizzle becomes a rain shower becomes a downpour.

There's also no clear definition when it comes to verbal abuse either. Is telling a 10 yr old he's acting like a three year old automatically verbal abuse? What about if the kid is told that every single day? What about if it's only said once a week but with an extremely nasty tone each time. What about the statement "You are being stupid?" It's not quite name calling, but it's not really the same thing as saying "you are acting stupid." It doesn't quite mean the same thing as either one of those, is it verbally abusive?

Or what about "timeouts?" Making a child sit on the naughty step for 3 minutes, probably not abuse. But what about locking the child in the room for 3 hours and not taking him to the bathroom resulting in him peeing on himself? What about if the room the child is locked in is a large closet?

It's all a continuum really. And, it's nearly impossible for ANYONE, a spanker or not, to specifically point out the specific point on the continuum that any phsysical discipline becomes abusive. Obviously there's one end where everyone can say that clearly doing XYZ is abusive. The question is, where on the continuum is that point crossed. It's just not clear.

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spanking is hitting .
Again...a sprinkle and a downpour are both rain, but that doesn't make them the same. A waterspout and a EF5 tornado are both tornados but they certainly aren't the same. Cloth diapers and sposie diapers both catch poo, but they certainly aren't equal. Pretending that the words "spanking" and "hitting" have the exact same meaning is as silly as pretending that Kobe Beef T-Bones and a McDonalds hamburger are exactly the same, just because they both came from a cow.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:35 AM   #44
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

rain is rain.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:41 AM   #45
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by KaleidoscopeEyes View Post
rain is rain.
Explain that to my brown and dying front lawn, that the sprinkle we got 2 days ago is exactly the same as the downpour that caused some flash flooding in northern Indiana.

All rain is not created equal, neither is all physical discipline created equal.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:42 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happysmileylady
Actually I disagree. I remember going through puppy kindergarten and we had to bring the puppies in with pinch collars. Teaching the puppy to sit involved a light, quick tug up on the leash, pinching the collar, combined with a tap on the bottom, even going so far as to physically shove the dog's bottom down. And anyone who has watched "The Dog Whisperer" knows that with the aggressive dogs, he certainly gets more agressively physical, to the point of holding dogs on the ground, forcing them to lay down, until they calm down. Even if you disagree with his methods, the number of sucess stories he does have points to the physical discipline he does use being very effective. And all across the animal kingdom, animal parents, from dogs to cats to whatever, use physical methods to discipline their litters, from small bites and nips to swats with the paw to whatever else. Physical discipline is certainly alive and well across the animal kingdom.

I totally agree that physical discipline is on a continuum. That's part of what makes it SO hard to conduct studies like this. Spanking's definition is subjective. Just like there's no clear boundary between when a sprinkle becomes a drizzle becomes a rain shower becomes a downpour.

There's also no clear definition when it comes to verbal abuse either. Is telling a 10 yr old he's acting like a three year old automatically verbal abuse? What about if the kid is told that every single day? What about if it's only said once a week but with an extremely nasty tone each time. What about the statement "You are being stupid?" It's not quite name calling, but it's not really the same thing as saying "you are acting stupid." It doesn't quite mean the same thing as either one of those, is it verbally abusive?

Or what about "timeouts?" Making a child sit on the naughty step for 3 minutes, probably not abuse. But what about locking the child in the room for 3 hours and not taking him to the bathroom resulting in him peeing on himself? What about if the room the child is locked in is a large closet?

It's all a continuum really. And, it's nearly impossible for ANYONE, a spanker or not, to specifically point out the specific point on the continuum that any phsysical discipline becomes abusive. Obviously there's one end where everyone can say that clearly doing XYZ is abusive. The question is, where on the continuum is that point crossed. It's just not clear.

Again...a sprinkle and a downpour are both rain, but that doesn't make them the same. A waterspout and a EF5 tornado are both tornados but they certainly aren't the same. Cloth diapers and sposie diapers both catch poo, but they certainly aren't equal. Pretending that the words "spanking" and "hitting" have the exact same meaning is as silly as pretending that Kobe Beef T-Bones and a McDonalds hamburger are exactly the same, just because they both came from a cow.
I agree with your post.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:53 AM   #47
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

My worry with studies like this is that it is taken to an extreme degree.....parents start feeling that ANY discipline will cause permanent damage in their children or mental illness. There are more and more studies that scare and dissuade parents from various forms of discipline and less and less that promote what a parent CAN do, what DOES result in a happy and healthy child, etc. I have seen numerous studies about everything from timeoust to other forms of punishments are just a dangerous as spankings. Perhaps I am rambling here....and of course, people cannot control HOW parents apply the studies findings....but I have a big concern for parents today feeling that they cannot parent at all for fear that someone will think they are being to harsh or abusing their kids. I personally feel that there IS a big difference between spanking appropriately and abuse. But there are many people that feel that timeouts, loss of privilege, chores as punishment, missing meals if you dont eat what is offered, etc, etc are just as damaging to a child as spanking or are even considered abuse/neglect. Why dont we talk more about what we CAN do instead of all the things that we CANT do? I dont think that spankings are the universally answer but I do feel that parents as a whole are extremely lax and permissive these days. As someone who works in the childcare field, it is exhausting and disheartening to see. Some of these parents are good, hard working people who are scared by multiple studies about everything under the sun and dont see what options they have left but a hands off parenting style. Just some extra things to think about.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:38 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodah
My worry with studies like this is that it is taken to an extreme degree.....parents start feeling that ANY discipline will cause permanent damage in their children or mental illness. There are more and more studies that scare and dissuade parents from various forms of discipline and less and less that promote what a parent CAN do, what DOES result in a happy and healthy child, etc. I have seen numerous studies about everything from timeoust to other forms of punishments are just a dangerous as spankings. Perhaps I am rambling here....and of course, people cannot control HOW parents apply the studies findings....but I have a big concern for parents today feeling that they cannot parent at all for fear that someone will think they are being to harsh or abusing their kids. I personally feel that there IS a big difference between spanking appropriately and abuse. But there are many people that feel that timeouts, loss of privilege, chores as punishment, missing meals if you dont eat what is offered, etc, etc are just as damaging to a child as spanking or are even considered abuse/neglect. Why dont we talk more about what we CAN do instead of all the things that we CANT do? I dont think that spankings are the universally answer but I do feel that parents as a whole are extremely lax and permissive these days. As someone who works in the childcare field, it is exhausting and disheartening to see. Some of these parents are good, hard working people who are scared by multiple studies about everything under the sun and dont see what options they have left but a hands off parenting style. Just some extra things to think about.
See, I agree with this.

I wouldn't even mind more conversations about things like this if you could be guaranteed that people wouldn't take it to extremes.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #49
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health...html?hpt=hp_t2

Interesting article discussing studies about whether spanking in the absence of abuse may cause mental illnesses.

"Researchers from Canada found that physical punishment (such as slapping, hitting, pushing and shoving) -- even without child neglect or physical, sexual or emotional abuse -- was linked to mood disorders, anxiety disorders, substance abuse and personality disorders."

What do you think?
I would consider pushing and shoving a child to be abuse.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:34 PM   #50
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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See, I agree with this.

I wouldn't even mind more conversations about things like this if you could be guaranteed that people wouldn't take it to extremes.
This!
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