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Old 09-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #21
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Re: If you leave childbearing up to God and don't have any or many...

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Originally Posted by Puppydog View Post
Makes sense. I guess the better way to ask would be "would you (general you) feel those that sought medical intervention were wrong.

I'm not wanting to be inflammatory at all. I genuinely enjoy hearing the view point of others as I have learned so much by listening to those ideas and thoughts.
Wrong? No. I won't presume to understand someone else's walk with God. I would share my opinions if asked, but beyond that I think it is a personal journey for each person.

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:04 PM   #22
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Re: If you leave childbearing up to God and don't have any or many...

I have one friend who has never used any type of birth control whatsoever and only have one child. They would love more (3-4 is her ideal), but now that her son is 8 I'm not sure if they will choose to adopt or foster care(something they have discussed).

It was two years before they got pregnant with her son. Right before (like a two or three months) she was having some severe pain and found that she had a grapefruit size cyst on her ovary. After having it removed it was only a month or two before she was pregnant. As of yet she has not gotten pregnant again. They will not do any type of fertility treatments, but I believe she did go to a doctor just to make sure nothing was wrong.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:48 PM   #23
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Re: If you leave childbearing up to God and don't have any or many...

I'll offer our perspective. We are practicing Catholics and agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church with regards to sex and procreation. I say that just to let you know where I am coming from and why.

We would say that we leave our fertility up to God. We do not use contraception. However, we often have a different interpretation of what it means to leave your fertility up to God than many other Christian groups do. We do believe that sex is designed with two equally important purposes and that we ought not intentionally alter or work against those two purposes as God has designed it. They are 1) The union of the couple (pleasure, bonding, intimacy, etc.) and 2) Procreation. Imagine, for example, that an alien came to earth and looked at sex and wondered "What's the point of that? What's that for?" It is not hard to see the two natural purposes when you consider it that way. (I know that's a silly way to explain it, but I think it makes my point). We believe those two things are meant to be bound up wonderfully together, designed by God that way for a reason. The reason that we find it so important to keep these natural ends intact is not just "because God made it that way" (although that's true) but more importantly because of WHY God made it that way. We would say that the sexual love of a married couple is supposed to be an image of God's love. God loves his people as the perfect husband. This is all over scripture. It's even the first story and the last story! As such God's love is free, total, faithful, and fruitful. The fruitful part is obviously the part in question here. We believe that God's love is life-giving and it's a privilege to be called to try our best to image God's love in the world.

We do not use contraception because that would be intentionally rendering fertile sex infertile and working against procreation in that particular act of sex. It would be saying that we don't want this act to be life-giving by taking matters into our own hands to change the sex itself. In general, we are happy if a pregnancy results from sex because that means something has gone really right, not really wrong. However, we recognize that in this imperfect fallen world there are times where a couple might feel strongly that it would not be wise to have another child at that time. Obviously there could be all sorts of reasons for that. When that's the case, we can use NFP and abstain during the fertile window. This is not the same as contraception because it is not intentionally rendering any sex infertile. We do not take matters into our own hands and prevent an act from being life-giving that might otherwise be life-giving. Rather, it is simply working with God's design according to what the couple thinks is prudent. I like to compare it to checking the weather... you read the signs and act accordingly depending on the current situation. So some Catholic families might end up with many children, and some might end up with few for all sorts of different reasons. I hope that makes sense, that's the best I could do to explain it as briefly as I could.

So with regards to fertility treatments, we come at it from the same perspective really. Sex has, by it's nature, two ends. We don't mess with either of them, again, because both of the ends (union and procreation) together speak of God's love. We do think it's a good thing to heal a broken system if we can. An infertile couple would be welcome to seek physical medical healing for what is not working as it ideally should. Just like we would treat any other ailment to restore the body to health, we think treating infertility is a good thing. We want healing, we want the body to work as it should, we want sex to be able to be life-giving. So we are all in favor of fertility treatments which actually heal the body systems in question and as a result solve the infertility and allows the couple's sex to potentially result in a new person. The examples of this that come to mind would be drugs or procedures that allow the woman to ovulate properly, or supplements and hormones which give the body something it is lacking. What we do not believe in are things which do not heal the body and make sex work better, but rather circumvent the sexual act altogether thereby separating the union of the couple from the procreation. Examples of that would be IVF, IUI, etc.

I don't say any of this to wag fingers at anyone. Not at all! I know these are very sensitive topics which effect people very personally. I don't presume to know any certain person's circumstances. My intention is only to offer an answer to the OP from my perspective. I hope I explained it well enough, I am not always great at articulating things like I hope to.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizgrace07
I'll offer our perspective. We are practicing Catholics and agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church with regards to sex and procreation. I say that just to let you know where I am coming from and why.

We would say that we leave our fertility up to God. We do not use contraception. However, we often have a different interpretation of what it means to leave your fertility up to God than many other Christian groups do. We do believe that sex is designed with two equally important purposes and that we ought not intentionally alter or work against those two purposes as God has designed it. They are 1) The union of the couple (pleasure, bonding, intimacy, etc.) and 2) Procreation. Imagine, for example, that an alien came to earth and looked at sex and wondered "What's the point of that? What's that for?" It is not hard to see the two natural purposes when you consider it that way. (I know that's a silly way to explain it, but I think it makes my point). We believe those two things are meant to be bound up wonderfully together, designed by God that way for a reason. The reason that we find it so important to keep these natural ends intact is not just "because God made it that way" (although that's true) but more importantly because of WHY God made it that way. We would say that the sexual love of a married couple is supposed to be an image of God's love. God loves his people as the perfect husband. This is all over scripture. It's even the first story and the last story! As such God's love is free, total, faithful, and fruitful. The fruitful part is obviously the part in question here. We believe that God's love is life-giving and it's a privilege to be called to try our best to image God's love in the world.

We do not use contraception because that would be intentionally rendering fertile sex infertile and working against procreation in that particular act of sex. It would be saying that we don't want this act to be life-giving by taking matters into our own hands to change the sex itself. In general, we are happy if a pregnancy results from sex because that means something has gone really right, not really wrong. However, we recognize that in this imperfect fallen world there are times where a couple might feel strongly that it would not be wise to have another child at that time. Obviously there could be all sorts of reasons for that. When that's the case, we can use NFP and abstain during the fertile window. This is not the same as contraception because it is not intentionally rendering any sex infertile. We do not take matters into our own hands and prevent an act from being life-giving that might otherwise be life-giving. Rather, it is simply working with God's design according to what the couple thinks is prudent. I like to compare it to checking the weather... you read the signs and act accordingly depending on the current situation. So some Catholic families might end up with many children, and some might end up with few for all sorts of different reasons. I hope that makes sense, that's the best I could do to explain it as briefly as I could.

So with regards to fertility treatments, we come at it from the same perspective really. Sex has, by it's nature, two ends. We don't mess with either of them, again, because both of the ends (union and procreation) together speak of God's love. We do think it's a good thing to heal a broken system if we can. An infertile couple would be welcome to seek physical medical healing for what is not working as it ideally should. Just like we would treat any other ailment to restore the body to health, we think treating infertility is a good thing. We want healing, we want the body to work as it should, we want sex to be able to be life-giving. So we are all in favor of fertility treatments which actually heal the body systems in question and as a result solve the infertility and allows the couple's sex to potentially result in a new person. The examples of this that come to mind would be drugs or procedures that allow the woman to ovulate properly, or supplements and hormones which give the body something it is lacking. What we do not believe in are things which do not heal the body and make sex work better, but rather circumvent the sexual act altogether thereby separating the union of the couple from the procreation. Examples of that would be IVF, IUI, etc.

I don't say any of this to wag fingers at anyone. Not at all! I know these are very sensitive topics which effect people very personally. I don't presume to know any certain person's circumstances. My intention is only to offer an answer to the OP from my perspective. I hope I explained it well enough, I am not always great at articulating things like I hope to.
Wow.....that was very well written and explained a lot of things that weigh heavy on me..thank you
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