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Old 09-17-2012, 07:20 AM   #121
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Re: babywise

So it sound like extended breastfeeding is pretty much impossible with BW due to premature reduction in supply?

It's hard for me to take seriously parenting advice from someone whose own children ceased all contact with them. But heck it's better than the Pearls.

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Old 09-17-2012, 07:20 AM   #122
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Re: babywise

So it sound like extended breastfeeding is pretty much impossible with BW due to premature reduction in supply?

It's hard for me to take seriously parenting advice from someone whose own children ceased all contact with them. But heck it's better than the Pearls.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:27 AM   #123
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Re: babywise

Wow this timeline is quite telling
http://www.ezzo.info/resources/timeline
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:33 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes
So it sound like extended breastfeeding is pretty much impossible with BW due to premature reduction in supply?

It's hard for me to take seriously parenting advice from someone whose own children ceased all contact with them. But heck it's better than the Pearls.
I have to agree. It's right up there with someone with no kids having really extreme beliefs and advice. If either advertised that their 'teachings' could make my baby poop gold I still wouldn't buy the book because of what it supports. But that's just me.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:38 AM   #125
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Re: babywise

For clarification, BW stresses you need to be mindful of your BF supply. They encourage dreamfeeds (waking your child to eat in the night even though the child hasn't awakened or asked for food). They encourage pumping in lieu of a dreamfeed if that is your route. They mention ways to increase your supply should you notice a dip. They in no way encourage a strict pumping schedule or advocate you deprive your child of nutrients. I choose to pump because I donate milk, I feel more comfortable with a freezer stash and it seems a small sacrifice TO ME to ensure my milk supply. My bestie H has 10 children, never pumps after the first 4 weeks, and nurses until a year with all hers. Her youngest was only nursing 4 times a day between 6 and 12 months and he was the chubbiest, cutest thing ever. Again, we end up happy, healthy babies too. We just take a different route to get there.

i received a PM asking for what a day in the life of our 6 month olds looks like... I should mention different families start their day at different times, and different babies tolerate different awake time lengths sooner/later than others, so this is just a generalization that we tweak for each baby because we tailor to each baby as most moms do. We also have other committments like carpool pickups, etc... that mean we have to bend times.

7am- Awaken the baby and nurse, dress, etc...
9am - Nap
11am - Awake, nurse and play, errands, etc...
1pm - Nap
3pm - Awake and nurse, play, cook dinner, whatever
5pm - flex nap, I usually shorten this or BW(from here through 9pm is sort of what works for each family) or we're out and about
7pm - Awaken and nurse, etc...
8pm?? - bedtime depends on the sleep between 5 and 7, may be earlier or later.
10/11pm - Dreamfeed

To me and mine, we bend things as necessary. The evening nap is very flexible, and I frequently made afternoon nap at 130 to allow more time for errands and outings. This schedule above isn't rigid. Its a tool, a framework. If we have a growth spurt, we shrink feeding intervals and add an extra feeding. If we're traveling, have a sick child, etc... that requires it, we shrink feeding intervals and add an extra feeding. Our schedule is what we're characterized by, not what we are limited to or bound to if that makes sense. We meet our children's needs just like you do. We just help them settle into a routine earlier and they become creatures of habit.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:39 AM   #126
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Re: babywise

I finally read this book (the secular version) while pregnant with DD2. I had heard all of the arguments against it but I wanted to see it for myself. There was only one specific thing that I thought was dead wrong: the authors claimed that moms of scheduled babies have a better milk supply than mothers that feed on demand. Well, that's obviously not the case considering moms in this very thread are talking about pumping to keep their milk supply up. The other thing I disliked was the overall attitude of "if you just follow this method, all of your problems will be solved". Pfffft. No one philosophy of parenting is going to work for every parent & every baby. Other than that, I didn't see anything that radical. In their defense, the book I read said that you shouldn't watch the clock but watch your baby for hunger signs. I think therein lies the problem: there are many different versions & editions of this book out there so it's like comparing apples to oranges in some cases.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:42 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by dancermommy1
Terra, I wasn't trying to snark at you or anything with my posts. I wasn't going to comment on my feelings about BW other than just my first post about not liking it, until people started with the whole "I read about all these moms with kids that don't sleep and I'm so glad I didn't make those mistakes" blah blah blah...

It irked me, because I tried scheduling, I tried all sorts of things, I read a thousand books, and in the end none of it mattered because it's just my child and I have to accept his personality and sleep style and work within that. I also have to accept my abilities, needs, and instincts and work within those as well. But, my child isn't a poor sleeper because I'm a poor mother, or because I didn't follow some program. He's a poor sleeper because he is a poor sleeper. That's all.

I realize the link posted by pp represents the extremes. That shows the danger that relying on books without using some sort of common sense can cause. I think MOST families use more common sense than that, but certainly not all, or there wouldn't be so many warnings about Ezzo out there. Not only that, but I fundamentally disagree with his program because I think he misrepresents scripture in his "ministry" and that goes against my religious beliefs in general. So, I have problems with him, not just the BW program.

Anyway, to the OP, I hope you find a solution that works for your family. Good luck!
I do have a lot more problems with the stuff he teaches in churches than with Babywise, definitely. I don't think my babies are born sinning. With Original Sin until they're baptized as newborns, absolutely, but not sinning. I do not need to "train" the "rebellion" out of them.

"Behavior modification parenting" in general kind of freaks me out, but I did get some great stuff from the Love & Logic series (not Ezzo), so I'm able to take the good and leave the rest--and I can see how that can apply to Babywise, but I do find the "eat, play, sleep" routine contrary nature, which means contrary to a normally established, perfectly tailored to the baby milk supply and milk composition.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:44 AM   #128
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Re: babywise

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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes View Post
So it sound like extended breastfeeding is pretty much impossible with BW due to premature reduction in supply?

It's hard for me to take seriously parenting advice from someone whose own children ceased all contact with them. But heck it's better than the Pearls.
I cannot speak to impossibility because I'm old enough to have learned there is rarely such a thing, but I would think it very difficult to nurse to 2 or 3 years as a scheduling nurser. Though I don't know why you'd still have such a schedule in place much over a year. The BW framework is for infants and we transition to a toddler way of doing things after a year.

I don't know what has led you to believe the Ezzos don't communicate with their children?? Its simply not true. Nor is it true with the Pearls. Both have their families involved in their ministries, publications and conferences.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #129
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But if we KNOW that the biological imperative is to nurse well past a year--for example, knowing what we know about first-century Jews, we can surmise that Jesus was probably nursed to age 3 or 4--what is the developmental, scientific, anthropological basis for parenting in a way that would sabotage that? If the child's body and brain are wired to do it, what's with the argument that Christian parents ought to be "training"-minded from birth, when that training involves a routine that runs contrary to his physiology? Just because his metabolism CAN adapt doesn't mean it should, I guess I'm saying. I'm wary of the long-term effects, although, in perspective, there are worse things that people do to babies than feed them breastmilk only four times a day.

Haha! It sounds so strange to me! I think my six-month olds probably nursed four times an hour.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:01 AM   #130
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Re: babywise

Pumping is not as effective at building your milk supply as the babies jaw. PERIOD. EZZO is WRONG... That is poor advice and im a lactation counselor. Babies cry for the breast and cluster feed to build your supply, to tailor that supply to THEIR needs. Nature gave us that awesome feature and Ezzo suggests pumping to ensure your supply? Waking a sleeping baby to nurse? That is kind of counterproductive.

People who use BW and love it are not going to change their minds about it and it makes me sad but that is just BAD breastfeeding advise. Why would you use a mechanical pump instead of your beautiful baby who is way more effective and certainly more appreciative.

Also, my 3 year old still sucks her thumb for comfort, so why is her need to suck not gone? She is over 3 months afterall????? WOW. JUST WOW.

Babies are not something you can schedule, we need to get over the fact that creating and raising humans might be, at times, a little inconvenient for us.
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