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Old 10-08-2012, 05:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dissidentdad
The only parents opinions I would respect when it comes to a medical issue, especially with a special needs child, is a parent who is also of the medical profession or someone with a similar child who did at least as much research as I did. The choice was hearing or not hearing (I understand not at the same level), not pain or no pain. Had there been a non-evasive option to hear, like a prescription taken once a day for several years, and you chose to take the more antiquated method because that's what your parents had done I would think you were cruel.

I disagree with anyone that does anything, whether related to parenting or not, based on feelings, beliefs or thoughts when it comes to making a decision for someone else. Further, since this seems to be the basis for many people's reasoning, religion is protected in the country I live in as a personal freedom, I find it wrong to brainwash toddlers into saying "Jesus loves you" as this suggests that they understand that the planet we live in is part of a universe in which God created everything and because of the vast sins of men, sent his son through immaculate conception and that this man died as a martyr in order to ensure everlasting life for those who believe in this idea. A toddler does not understand most of the words I used in that last sentence. Religious beliefs are protected as personal beliefs. If the general view was that our children were people we wouldn't impose our own beliefs on them, instead we would allow them to make their own choices when they understood the complex concepts of religion by living the tenements of our belief system and sharing our faith through the evidence shown in how we walk through life.
Well, some people would disagree about the hearing vs. not, because they don't see being deaf as a disability or a problem that needs to be fixed, and consider being a part of the Deaf community the only viable option if you truly respect your child. As for religion, others would argue that they are educating their child on their faith, not brainwashing them. It could just as easily be argued that nonreligious parents are brainwashing their children to also be nonreligious.

I also think we have to be careful in assuming that everyone parenting "mainstream" is just going along with it. Plenty of people have done extensive research on vaccines and chose to vaccinate, for example. I think in some things too we have to consider the possibility that everyone is doing something because it works.

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Old 10-08-2012, 05:32 PM   #22
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

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Well, some people would disagree about the hearing vs. not, because they don't see being deaf as a disability or a problem that needs to be fixed, and consider being a part of the Deaf community the only viable option if you truly respect your child. As for religion, others would argue that they are educating their child on their faith, not brainwashing them. It could just as easily be argued that nonreligious parents are brainwashing their children to also be nonreligious.

I also think we have to be careful in assuming that everyone parenting "mainstream" is just going along with it. Plenty of people have done extensive research on vaccines and chose to vaccinate, for example. I think in some things too we have to consider the possibility that everyone is doing something because it works.
this completely.

especially the bolded

there are a lot of things that very educated people on this board indicate that they do, but I disagree with for what I believe are very good reasons.

we won't all come to the same conclusions. I'm a scientist by degree, but I know that people always have a bias. Even if that bias is to simply find a way to reject an idea that they think is too mainstream.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:47 PM   #23
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

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this completely.

especially the bolded

there are a lot of things that very educated people on this board indicate that they do, but I disagree with for what I believe are very good reasons.

we won't all come to the same conclusions. I'm a scientist by degree, but I know that people always have a bias. Even if that bias is to simply find a way to reject an idea that they think is too mainstream.
Yes, to the bolded. I have found that I have this tendency, and I have to constantly recheck myself to make sure I'm not just seeking out specific information to support my tendency to reject the mainstream. There are studies to support everything, so it's easy to say "I researched" without trying to eliminate my bias. It's important to read all of the information, and read the "offbeat" information with as much criticism as I would the mainstream.

I don't think my tendency is uncommon.

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Old 10-08-2012, 06:09 PM   #24
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

Disabled is not the correct word, I use it because it is commonly considered a synonym of handicap when used to describe a persons physical abilities. But someone who has four out of five senses is handicap, they may overcome this handicap but it does not mean that the condition of the person is any different. If a boxer fights another fighter who is at a heavier weight he is at a handicap.

When it comes to religion there is a far cry between educating and brainwashing. Not teaching a child about religion is not brainwashing a child to be nonreligious. If someone were to make a child repeat over and over again God is fake in a group of their peers and then gave them a reward after successfully completing the action that would be brainwashing. Brainwashing refers to the attempt to instill an idea based on repetition rather than through reason. Without understanding sin, which means you know what constitutes a sin and why the actions that are considered a sin are wrong, you can not "believe" that someone died to forgive and absolve you for your sins. A toddler does not understand sin. They can say the word but they do not understand the concept. Since this is the basis for Jesus' love for a toddler to say "Jesus loves you" suggests that they understand these things. The same can be said for adults who can pick out verses to use as arguments but do not know the verse before and after. This is caused by being brainwashed rather than educated. The people of Iran believe that the Holocaust did not happen, or at least that the numbers of people killed were in the hundreds of thousands rather than the millions. They in turn "educate" their children on the subject. That does not mean they are not wrong.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:17 PM   #25
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

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Yes, to the bolded. I have found that I have this tendency, and I have to constantly recheck myself to make sure I'm not just seeking out specific information to support my tendency to reject the mainstream. There are studies to support everything, so it's easy to say "I researched" without trying to eliminate my bias. It's important to read all of the information, and read the "offbeat" information with as much criticism as I would the mainstream.

I don't think my tendency is uncommon.
Confirmation bias is the term that accurately describes this tendency. Nearly impossible to fully escape.

I like this guy, but I fear the honesty displayed regarding religion is going to ruffle the sensitive feathers on this board.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:31 PM   #26
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

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Well, some people would disagree about the hearing vs. not, because they don't see being deaf as a disability or a problem that needs to be fixed, and consider being a part of the Deaf community the only viable option if you truly respect your child. As for religion, others would argue that they are educating their child on their faith, not brainwashing them. It could just as easily be argued that nonreligious parents are brainwashing their children to also be nonreligious.

I also think we have to be careful in assuming that everyone parenting "mainstream" is just going along with it. Plenty of people have done extensive research on vaccines and chose to vaccinate, for example. I think in some things too we have to consider the possibility that everyone is doing something because it works.
There was a long thread here a couple of years ago where we went around and around about how no matter what you purposely teach or don't teach, you instill ideas into your children when it comes to religion or lack thereof. Even allowing your child to just decide for themselves teaches them that it is a decision for them to make and figure out, which is just another of the myriad of philosophies surrounding religion. It's just not possible to not influence/brainwash.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by addicteddad
Confirmation bias is the term that accurately describes this tendency. Nearly impossible to fully escape.

I like this guy, but I fear the honesty displayed regarding religion is going to ruffle the sensitive feathers on this board.
if you were to ask me, I'd assume that 75% of this board would agree with his religious ideas.

But that's just the DS bias I see as a Christian.

And is neither here nor there.

Confirmation bias is impossible to avoid.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:08 PM   #28
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

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There was a long thread here a couple of years ago where we went around and around about how no matter what you purposely teach or don't teach, you instill ideas into your children when it comes to religion or lack thereof. Even allowing your child to just decide for themselves teaches them that it is a decision for them to make and figure out, which is just another of the myriad of philosophies surrounding religion. It's just not possible to not influence/brainwash.
The initial point of my post was to explain how I came to the conclusion of what I consider my parenting style, which I have not seen described the way I describe it myself prior.

Allowing your child to decide for themselves recognizes them as a person. In relation to religion it recognizes them as a fellow countrymen who is guaranteed the same rights by our constitution and by the bloodshed of our forefathers. My religious freedoms are what allowed me to read religious texts for myself rather than only listening to specific parts of holy text and the interpretations given to me by clergy. I did this at six and was often rebuked for wanting to discuss my opinions which were often different than others who believed in the text but had not read it.

I was never suggesting what people should believe or not believe. Up to this point I feel I have not portrayed what I believe or what I do not believe as I feel this is what is asked of us to be refrained from on this forum. I will make the exception here to explain the difference between education and brainwashing. When I say rebuked I mean the way that my parents were explained "spare the rod and spoil the child". This is one example of where I disagree with most on what is actually written versus what we are told is a pillar of our faith. We are told that it means to use physical punishment on our children, which I personally disagree with (not for this reason alone). At the time this religious text was written, animal husbandry was just starting to become a science. The rod is in reference to the tool that shepherds used to guide sheep and to fend off predators, it was never used to beat sheep. Spoil was used in the way we use it in reference to food, not in the way we use it when we mean to say to allow a child to do what he wants. The verse is suggesting we guide our children through life so that they become valued members of our society.

If your child is reading the holy book of your faith out of a want to understand the moral material that his/her parents follow in an effort to become a better person I see this as their personal religious rights being upheld. If they are memorizing specific bits and pieces that require far more information, such as in the situation of a toddler suggesting the intentions of a religious figure, I see this as someone who could just as well be repeating the words of a dictator of the Third Reich if that was the intentions of their parents.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:51 PM   #29
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Well, some people would disagree about the hearing vs. not, because they don't see being deaf as a disability or a problem that needs to be fixed, and consider being a part of the Deaf community the only viable option if you truly respect your child. As for religion, others would argue that they are educating their child on their faith, not brainwashing them. It could just as easily be argued that nonreligious parents are brainwashing their children to also be nonreligious.

I also think we have to be careful in assuming that everyone parenting "mainstream" is just going along with it. Plenty of people have done extensive research on vaccines and chose to vaccinate, for example. I think in some things too we have to consider the possibility that everyone is doing something because it works.
Honestly the whole hearing thing drives me nuts. I'm more then half deaf, it is so annoying not being able to hear like everyone else. It is something that can be a disability it is for me. It sets me apart from other like at work and I don't hear as well as others. It sucks just saying. My parents acted like I was no different and would get mad if I didn't hear them, even though I had a valid reason I didn't always hear them.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:37 AM   #30
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Re: Parenting style: Raising a person

Good job dad!!!
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