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Old 10-09-2012, 01:45 PM   #11
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I did all my reaearch at the cdc, aap and the who websites along with the guidance of our pediatrician.

We decided to stop vaccinating. My younger 3 are not vaccinated at all. We are happy with our decision.

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Old 10-09-2012, 02:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by z2akids
We vaccinate.

If you are interested in my reasons and my opinions on much of the "research" people use to decide not to vaccinate, I have posted in many of the dozens of threads that ask the same question you ask.

There is very little factual scientific information out there that is not supportive of vaccination. Plenty of anecdotal stories and websites like Mercola and others that purport to provide scientific evidence. However, almost every article posted on these blog and non-science sites is distorted or doesn't even follow any sort of scientific process.

Look at the information out there. But, if you do not have a firm understanding of how to read statistics or scientific studies -- ask someone who does before believing whatever you read. I recommend bringing any questions to your doctor. And, if you cannot do that, then I would suggest that it's time to find a new doctor. But, don't be surprised when she shoots down most of the anti-vax arguments because most of them are spurious.
Yes. This.

One example of the difference that comes with understanding the research: looking at a list of vaccine ingredients. In toxicology, the dose makes the poison. Even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. So I have zero interest in an unquantified list of ingredients - what matters is the *dose* (quantity) of each ingredient, and how that dose compares to doses that cause health effects (with several uncertainty factors applied to be conservative).

We fully vaccinate, obviously. In my research, I focused on simply examining the review process that goes into developing the CDC schedule. It is a robust peer review process. Therefore I trust its results. I have also never seen a single anti vax argument that had any scientific merit, they are all rife with logical and statistical errors and conspiracy paranoia. I have a M.S. and worked in eco and health risk assessment in consulting and government for my career prior to becoming a SAHM and so I approached the issue very much as a scientist and number cruncher.

I know that some families do not vaccinate or select/delay due to unusual health concerns like severe allergies or family history of confirmed serious reactions, and I have no quarrel with that. But for other non vax moms, I don't think they are bad moms or have bad intentions, I just think they are wrong on this issue and trusting the wrong sources of information, and/or misunderstanding and misinterpreting the evidence (like being grossed out by ingredient lists).
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:36 PM   #13
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We selectively vax here.
My dd was fully vaxed on time and I never questioned. she will not get the HPV in the future.
The risks for me outweigh any benefits.

Ds went for his 2 month needles one in each leg ( first ever as we don't do any at birth)
Both his legs turned red and he screamed so hard for 4 hours he was passing out for 30 seconds at a time and waking up screaming again. I was really put off when I called my doctor and he said that wasn't considered a severe reaction!

We delay space out and only give what was on my vax schedule
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:30 PM   #14
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Re: Vaccines

We do not vaccinate. We chose that route after ds1 had several vaccine related complications and decided it wasn't for us. ds2 has not had any vaccines and his Pediatrician agrees with us.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:32 PM   #15
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Re: Vaccines

Quote:
Originally Posted by z2akids View Post
We vaccinate.

If you are interested in my reasons and my opinions on much of the "research" people use to decide not to vaccinate, I have posted in many of the dozens of threads that ask the same question you ask.

There is very little factual scientific information out there that is not supportive of vaccination. Plenty of anecdotal stories and websites like Mercola and others that purport to provide scientific evidence. However, almost every article posted on these blog and non-science sites is distorted or doesn't even follow any sort of scientific process.

Look at the information out there. But, if you do not have a firm understanding of how to read statistics or scientific studies -- ask someone who does before believing whatever you read. I recommend bringing any questions to your doctor. And, if you cannot do that, then I would suggest that it's time to find a new doctor. But, don't be surprised when she shoots down most of the anti-vax arguments because most of them are spurious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen7 View Post
Yes. This.

One example of the difference that comes with understanding the research: looking at a list of vaccine ingredients. In toxicology, the dose makes the poison. Even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. So I have zero interest in an unquantified list of ingredients - what matters is the *dose* (quantity) of each ingredient, and how that dose compares to doses that cause health effects (with several uncertainty factors applied to be conservative).

We fully vaccinate, obviously. In my research, I focused on simply examining the review process that goes into developing the CDC schedule. It is a robust peer review process. Therefore I trust its results. I have also never seen a single anti vax argument that had any scientific merit, they are all rife with logical and statistical errors and conspiracy paranoia. I have a M.S. and worked in eco and health risk assessment in consulting and government for my career prior to becoming a SAHM and so I approached the issue very much as a scientist and number cruncher.

I know that some families do not vaccinate or select/delay due to unusual health concerns like severe allergies or family history of confirmed serious reactions, and I have no quarrel with that. But for other non vax moms, I don't think they are bad moms or have bad intentions, I just think they are wrong on this issue and trusting the wrong sources of information, and/or misunderstanding and misinterpreting the evidence (like being grossed out by ingredient lists).
I feel very much like the above posters.

Personally speaking, my mother had a "light" case of polio as a child and that still very much messed with her. I also was friendly with someone whose baby died of pertussis. My general feeling is that you are stacking the cards in your favor to vaccinate your child. I also feel that many of the claims that these diseases just aren't a big deal and easy to recover from are shaky. I also have a fundamental issue with the logic that teeny babies = fragile systems = do not vaccinate. The vaccine is a very, very small intro to the disease whereas the disease is generally huge and scary and that teeny body and teeny immune system have less of a chance to fight that off than any vaccine potential complications.

In regards to the schedule and the amount now, where yes there are more vaccinations today and spaced closer together, the amount of "stuff" in the vaccines is less than before so they are fundamentally safer.

I would recommend you familiarize yourself with how a vaccine actually works. My really layperson four sentence explanation is that vaccines work by having the body produce the necessary equipment to fight off the disease, and then store it and that knowledge for future use, if necessary. If you are then sickened by the disease, your body will already recognize the invaders and already have the ability to produce exactly what is needed to fight it off. Basically, if your body is a factory, via advanced intelligence the factory has already determined the exact weapons and manufactured the metal molds necessary to produce the exact weapon and ammunition you will need. Factory is built, staffed, and just waiting to hear there is a war.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:54 PM   #16
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We vaccinate on the spread-out-but-complete schedule in The Vaccine Book. I absolutely want my daughters vaccinated but if they only get two vaccines at a time and they do react badly, it would be much easier to know which vaccine to avoid, instead of giving up vaccinating completely. I do want them vaccinated, less for their sakes and more for the protection of children who can't be vaccinated (or are too young).

Our whole family gets flu shots, too, and the only flu any of us has had (at least since hubby and I were married) is the swine flu, right before the vaccine became available. So I'm wary of the popular "The only people I know who get the flu got it from the shot!!!" hype. That hasn't been true for anyone I know (and I also worked with young kids for years before having my own, so I was exposed to everything under the sun).
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:59 PM   #17
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Wink Re: Vaccines

Quote:
Originally Posted by z2akids View Post
We vaccinate.

If you are interested in my reasons and my opinions on much of the "research" people use to decide not to vaccinate, I have posted in many of the dozens of threads that ask the same question you ask.

There is very little factual scientific information out there that is not supportive of vaccination. Plenty of anecdotal stories and websites like Mercola and others that purport to provide scientific evidence. However, almost every article posted on these blog and non-science sites is distorted or doesn't even follow any sort of scientific process.

Look at the information out there. But, if you do not have a firm understanding of how to read statistics or scientific studies -- ask someone who does before believing whatever you read. I recommend bringing any questions to your doctor. And, if you cannot do that, then I would suggest that it's time to find a new doctor. But, don't be surprised when she shoots down most of the anti-vax arguments because most of them are spurious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen7 View Post
Yes. This.

One example of the difference that comes with understanding the research: looking at a list of vaccine ingredients. In toxicology, the dose makes the poison. Even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. So I have zero interest in an unquantified list of ingredients - what matters is the *dose* (quantity) of each ingredient, and how that dose compares to doses that cause health effects (with several uncertainty factors applied to be conservative).

We fully vaccinate, obviously. In my research, I focused on simply examining the review process that goes into developing the CDC schedule. It is a robust peer review process. Therefore I trust its results. I have also never seen a single anti vax argument that had any scientific merit, they are all rife with logical and statistical errors and conspiracy paranoia. I have a M.S. and worked in eco and health risk assessment in consulting and government for my career prior to becoming a SAHM and so I approached the issue very much as a scientist and number cruncher.

I know that some families do not vaccinate or select/delay due to unusual health concerns like severe allergies or family history of confirmed serious reactions, and I have no quarrel with that. But for other non vax moms, I don't think they are bad moms or have bad intentions, I just think they are wrong on this issue and trusting the wrong sources of information, and/or misunderstanding and misinterpreting the evidence (like being grossed out by ingredient lists).
B.S. in Biology and Medical Technology and M.S. in Physician Assistant Studies. I vax, on schedule and agree with above. The key benefit of vaccinating everyone is herd immunity. We are protecting each other's children as much as our own. If my kid is vaccinated against a disease, I'm keeping your child from getting the disease as well. The hope is that the protection is mutually beneficial. Safety in numbers. For every child that is not vaccinated, it puts everyone at risk because the outbreaks are still possible. This is the reason medical professionals find it difficult to agree with parents that refuse vaccination. It goes against everything they are taught in school. It's not personal. It's just one very simple way to protect children from getting very serious diseases (that are so easily preventable).
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #18
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Re: Vaccines

Quote:
Originally Posted by z2akids View Post
We vaccinate.

If you are interested in my reasons and my opinions on much of the "research" people use to decide not to vaccinate, I have posted in many of the dozens of threads that ask the same question you ask.

There is very little factual scientific information out there that is not supportive of vaccination. Plenty of anecdotal stories and websites like Mercola and others that purport to provide scientific evidence. However, almost every article posted on these blog and non-science sites is distorted or doesn't even follow any sort of scientific process.

Look at the information out there. But, if you do not have a firm understanding of how to read statistics or scientific studies -- ask someone who does before believing whatever you read. I recommend bringing any questions to your doctor. And, if you cannot do that, then I would suggest that it's time to find a new doctor. But, don't be surprised when she shoots down most of the anti-vax arguments because most of them are spurious.
This. I come from a scientific background (bachelor's in anthropology that focused mainly on biology/evolution and public health) and have not found any peer-reviewed, empirical research that is remotely anti-vaccination. Additionally, the anecdotal evidence thrown around doesn't sway me. If someone gets a fever after getting the HPV shot and then dies six months later, sorry, I'm not chalking it up to the vaccine.

I say this as someone who was vehemently anti-vaccination for a long time.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:17 PM   #19
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Re: Vaccines

I almost died of a vaccine preventable illness as a child, along with my twin sister. The HiB vaccine wasn't available at the time, and if it weren't for my mother's concern and quick thinking, both of us might have died.

But I don't vaccinate my children. I don't like to make decisions based on fear, but information. I think that the science and theory behind mass vaccination has not been fully tested, and I beleive that the body and the immune system is designed to protect without vaccinations. So I researched how to keep my children healthy without vaccines, and we do that. Breastfeeding and a healthy diet including probiotics and healthy fats during and after weaning, low exposures to toxins in the environment or diet, playing outside, lots of sunshine, good hygeine...we do all of that stuff. Despite being in daycare my daughter almost never was sick and so far our son has been very healthy also. I am with them almost constantly so I feel confident that if anything were to happen or they were to start acting strangely, I would know it and be able to get them medical attention and suitable treatment.
The world we live in is not the same as the late 1800s or early 1900s. Diseases were on the decline before vaccines were introduced, despite what doctors say (that it was all because of the vaccines). I also don't agree with the manufacture of vaccines with the use of aborted fetal cells. The end simply does not justify the means, imo. I will not be injecting anything of that sort into my children, or myself.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:26 PM   #20
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Re: Vaccines

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This. I come from a scientific background (bachelor's in anthropology that focused mainly on biology/evolution and public health) and have not found any peer-reviewed, empirical research that is remotely anti-vaccination. Additionally, the anecdotal evidence thrown around doesn't sway me. If someone gets a fever after getting the HPV shot and then dies six months later, sorry, I'm not chalking it up to the vaccine.

I say this as someone who was vehemently anti-vaccination for a long time.
I don't suppose that it's possible that there isn't much "peer-reviewed, empirical research" that is anti-vaccination because such research would not be tolerated by the mainstream scientific community? There is such a thing as science, and then there is research that is skewed and biased. Most research on vaccines is supported by the industry that promotes or manufacture vaccines.
The fact that there is a court that gives parents money for vaccine injuries to their children is evidence alone that there are risks that should be taken into account, and I feel that your comments might be hurtful to parents who have lost children not 6 months after their vaccinations, but the same day as, or days from their shots. It almost sounds like you're saying that they can't possibly know that. I personally feel that PARENTS usually know better than doctors when it comes to the health of their children, and if a mother says "my child got their 4 month vaccinations and died in bed that night, or two nights later, and I really feel that it was the vaccine..." who are we to judge?

OP, there is a documentary that you might like called "The Greater Good". I felt that it was somewhat balanced, in that it wasn't anti-vaccination, but rather, showed some families who had been affected by vaccination, and called for more research and options for parents who wanted to delay or do alternative schedules. And less judgement from the medical community for those choices, because, let's face it. CHILDREN THESE DAYS ARE NOT HEALTHY. They're just not.
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