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Old 10-11-2012, 10:05 PM   #61
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

This is for the OP. I do not have any medical reasons to offer for circ. But, I wanted you to know that I was also in your position before our DS was born. Up until being a member here I never even thought about not circ'ing. My entire side of family is all circ'd. And I think that all but 1 male on his side is circ'd. The 1 male who isn't is our 8 year old nephew. He was born 5 years prior to our DS. I thought it was 'weird' that they didn't circ him, b/c that was all I knew then. I thought it looked weird......I'm a good Auntie and help changed dipes. But, after we had DS and came to our decision (which honestly, dh still isn't 100% on board with, but respected my research and my personal passion for the decision) I realized an intact penis looked weird b/c I never knew what a "real" (for lack of a better word, lol) penis looked like. Same with the alternate. If someone who only had seen intact penis's then a circ'd penis would look weird.

The cancer and uti rates did not bother me. If I remember correctly, I think the highest rate of uti's are the first year of life. I know that my nephew and my DS never had one and now at 8 1/2 and 3, they still haven't had one.

I do agree that if an intact penis is forcibly retracted it could cause damage and problems later down the road. It is sort of like peeling off skin before it is ready to peel on its own. I also see the foreskin as a protective part of the tip of the penis. It is there to protect it. If it is taken off then there is no protection and therefore by being exposed and rubbed against things (diapers, underwear, towels, etc.) it will desensitize.

While talking about this with DH, I had told him he would have to watch a video of the procedure so he knew what was done and how it was done. If you asked him how a circ is done he would have NO clue. It is just done.....in his words. I also told him if we did circ, he would deal with the after and diapers until it was completely healed. He said he could not touch our DS's penis after it was circ'd until he knew he could without cringing. UMMmm, yeah......self explanatory, lol.

I don't have any medical reasons, but if you have any ?'s, please feel free to ask.

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Old 10-11-2012, 11:57 PM   #62
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

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Originally Posted by Minniebees View Post
I don't ever personally state my circ position on the internet because it squicks me out that people can then infer what my son's penis is like, and that seems like a gross violation of his privacy. Maybe because he's so much older now it feels like it should be kept private, so I won't say what we chose to do.
I know as my oldest is physically a man now I always see peoples signatures saying there boys are or aren't circumcised and think hmmmm is it really my business, I'm not sure my boy would appreciate me stating what we did or didn't do to his penis. I know not the original question but I don't go around saying what my girls private parts or breasts look like. If we are saying we respect their body as their own we should respect their privacy too. Probably hits us with older kids differently.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:15 AM   #63
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

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I know as my oldest is physically a man now I always see peoples signatures saying there boys are or aren't circumcised and think hmmmm is it really my business, I'm not sure my boy would appreciate me stating what we did or didn't do to his penis. I know not the original question but I don't go around saying what my girls private parts or breasts look like. If we are saying we respect their body as their own we should respect their privacy too. Probably hits us with older kids differently.
Well I'd hope when my son is old enough to care he'll be proud of his Mom for helping other little boys remain intact
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:17 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes

Well I'd hope when my son is old enough to care he'll be proud of his Mom for helping other little boys remain intact
This is pretty much how I think too.

DH is circed but in the middle of his restoration. He has become very anti circ (especially through his restoration). The further he gets in his restoration and realizes how much feeling hes getting back the more he hates the idea of circ.

We will share DH experience with our boys to help then understand what they have and hope they are very proud of it.

Amanda . Blaming my phone for typos and crap.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:48 AM   #65
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

I can really see both sides of most issues. I've been on both sides of the vax issues, FF/BF, co-sleeping. I don't usually feel strongly about any of these. After having preemie twins I am pretty aware of the whole, "what works for you may not work for me" thing. However, my views on circing have really morphed over the last few months.

My DS is 6 months old, and when I was pregnant, DH and I discussed it and decided not to circ. We weren't fanatical and even though I leaned against circing from the beginning I didn't feel it was a HUGE issue either way, even though my family and his family all circ. and DH is circ'd.

When DS was a little under 3 months old, he was diagnosed with a UTI. The ped. found it after his jaundice dragged on and on and spiked back up again, prompting her to check for a UTI. I was devastated and terrified of kidney reflux, exhausted from other health issues and overwhelmed by lack of medical support for uncirc'd babies. He went on a antibiotic and had to see a specialist.

When he was four months old, he was tested again for a UTI because of the statistical likelihood of additional ones and because I had refused the VCUG to check for kidney reflux. He tested positive so was put on another antibiotic.

Meanwhile we were dealing with symptoms of MSPI and no matter what I cut out of my diet, I could not (and still cannot) get the blood to clear from his stool (invisible blood). Since then he has visited the Ped. Urologist again and seems to be fine.

With all this going on, I have done a ton of reading and feel very strongly that my son NEVER had a UTI to begin with, and in fact did not have a second one either. I feel that the urine samples were contaminated because of my ped. mis-education in dealing with the uncircumcised penis and inability to get a clean sample. In fact, I think she introduced bacteria when she catheterized him and I also believe he was retracted without my consent or knowledge.

I believe my ped. tested him both times for a UTI simply because of statistics and found the bacteria because she introduced it or because the sample wasn't taken properly.

Furthermore, after talking to a natural doctor about my DS, I think his continued battle with digestive issues are due simply to him receiving three antibiotics at only three months old (counting one given at birth to C-sec babies). I have been a slave to dietary restrictions since he was born. I am now eating dairy-free, egg-free, soy-free, and grain-free in efforts to help heal his gut. I now believe that all of his issues stem back to the incorrect diagnosis of UTIs and the meds as a result. The more I read and think about this and the way it was handled by my ped. I feel that the higher "rate" of UTIs in uncirc'd babies could very well be tied into the misunderstanding in our culture and poor treatment practices. I read recently that only 1 out of 20 peds. in America know how to care for and treat an intact baby correctly and I tend to believe it.

Also, on a different note, I have suffered from painful intercourse since DH and I got married (virgins until wedding night). I think that I have some physical issues that contribute but I truly believe that if my husband were not circumcised I would have some if not all relief from the pain. I would love for him to restore but he is not interested in that.

I had no intention of sharing so much about this, but what it boils down to is this: I would never judge anyone for circ'ing. But I seriously feel like it is one of the biggest blind spots in our nation's medical community that RIC is still in practice.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:00 AM   #66
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

I circed my oldest son because I did come across the information of so called medical benefits. I didn't want to have to deal with yeast infections or UTIs. But, I had not fully informed myself. I did not take my blinders off and see the hypocrisy of this surgery. Before my second son was born, I took my blinders off and applied the same thought process to other diseases, and realized this:

It came down to the fact that I would NOT remove my baby girl's breast buds to prevent breast cancer (which KILLS 40,000/yr) so why would I remove sexual tissue just to prevent a lousy infection that can be easily cured by antibiotics? It came down to the FACT that a man is more likely to die of breast cancer than he is from penile cancer. I've had 3 UTIs in my life, one turned into a minor kidney infection. All were easily treated with antibiotics. I've had 3 yeast infections in my life. All were easily treated at home. These possible infectiosn are NOT adequate reason to put my precious baby through an excruciatingly painful procedure that they cannot rationalize and ONLY see it as near death or torture. That is not something I want a brand new baby to experience. They should know love, tenderness, and warmth. Not strapped to a cold plastic circumstraint and inflicted tremendous pain. That I am against 100%. Now, if parents waited until children were old enough to go under anesthesia and be sent home with appropriate pain medications, while I'd still disagree with altering another person's genitals against their will, I would be slightly less outraged because at least that child would be treated like a human being and afforded appropriate pain management, something that newborns don't get.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:30 PM   #67
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

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The standard of care requires use of anesthesia for circs. As a Ped dh has done, gosh, I don't even know if I can guess how many circs. The military has a 90+% circ rate, and he spent 6 years either observing or solely performing them. I don't know how many newborns have been in his care over the years, and approx 50% of them are boys, and most military families circ. So who knows? But he was taught to always use a nerve block (injection), to always wait for it to take effect. They also use a numbing cream before the nerve block. We know a lot of Peds, obviously, and I don't know any who would even think not to use pain meds. Like I said, it's the standard of care. I've never met a Ped who enjoys hurting babies, but I guess that's just me.

Having said that, they don't use pain meds for all procedures, like spinal taps. If your baby under 30 days gets a UTI, they will get a lumbar puncture, and without pain meds. I've known NICU docs who don't do them for chest tubes, either (which drives dh crazy, he's all about pain control in the NICU). When you have general Peds who don't deal with procedures like intensive care docs do on sick patients, they are often not comfortable handing out meds they don't use much when the child has a condition they don't see often, so they err on the side of caution most times. But for healthy kids and circs, it's standard of care. Any docs not doing it, are not following the rules.

I think when the AAP came out with their new policy recently, they mentioned specific studies and risks. The OP could look there. There was another article, was it the NY Post? That had a piece on the rising costs of health care as circs go down, and they listed a ton of studies there, too. It also might be useful to look up rates of UTI's in newborns, including the rates of hospitalizations, death and so on. Any infection in a newbie can be a life threatening event very quickly. And they are not always easily taken care of in newborns with antibiotics. Then you have to decide, are those risk greater than the risk of circ? That what all of us parents do with every decision we make for our kids, a basic risk/benefit analysis.

I don't ever personally state my circ position on the internet because it squicks me out that people can then infer what my son's penis is like, and that seems like a gross violation of his privacy. Maybe because he's so much older now it feels like it should be kept private, so I won't say what we chose to do. But we did read the research, look at the risks from circs, which are very real, the potential benefits, and then made a decision based on what we thought was better medically.

If you want some real advice about information, OP, stay off of parenting boards, and try some journal articles, policy statements, talk to several medical professionals (Peds and urologists would be a good place to start), check out government agencies that collect raw data and so on and so forth. IMO, parenting boards are not a good place to do research, people are too emotional about their pet topic, and every parent has something, whether is it car seats, or circs or whatnot. Good luck with your decision.

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #68
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

A funny story of the "culture of circ". I was baby sitting my friends 6 month old. I had him on my ottoman and was changing him. I dropped his rash cream and it rolled under the couch. I held his ankle and went fishing for it.

DH says "babe. There is something wrong with his penis". I sit bolt upright and look. I lift his legs, open his legs, look around and say "WHAT???". DH say "it looks all blue and funny. Its not right".

That is when I burst out laughing and say "baby. He is circ'ed".
Poor DH could only say "oh. Shame".

Interesting how for some its culture and others its wrong.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:43 PM   #69
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

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Well I'd hope when my son is old enough to care he'll be proud of his Mom for helping other little boys remain intact
But it is still a choice you are making for him with hopes that he will appreciate it someday, just like the parents who try to educate themselves and choose to circ. And please don't assume that you know what I chose for my 3 boys just because I agree with someone or disagree with an intactivist on this thread.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:17 PM   #70
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Re: What were your medical reasons for circumcising?

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But it is still a choice you are making for him with hopes that he will appreciate it someday, just like the parents who try to educate themselves and choose to circ.
I think this perfectly illustrates the disconnect between the two "sides". For those who believe this is a human rights issue, this idea simply doesn't resonate. First, leaving a boy intact is a reversible position, whereas circumcising at birth is not.

Second (and perhaps more important), the human penis is designed to include a foreskin, and refusing non-therapeutic surgery for a normal, healthy newborn is actually the standard for proxy consent. There would only be parental choice involved if baby boys were made to order.

I can see both sides of the privacy issue, but ultimately I don't think it's any different than any of the myriad behavioral and medical issues we post about here (some of which can be very detailed/personal). Posting photos could definitely cross a line, but simply stating that a boy is intact or circumcised doesn't exactly paint a detailed picture.
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