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Old 11-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #21
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It's not clear to me who the conference is supposed to involve, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Then again, I don't know how the handbook is written so those definitions may have been covered.

My main concern would be the overall lack of communication, both with regards to his general behavior and this specific incident. I don't know that I would have expected a call during the actual event, but I would expect a little something more than just a note that could get lost in the shuffle. A phone call or email would be my expectation.

Sadly, I have learned that no news doesn't equal good news when it comes to communication. Things have to get really bad for most teachers to take the time to tell parents. IME, you have to be proactive and "touch base" on a regular basis to make sure things are going smoothly and help to smooth things out before they spiral into something worse.

I know the frustration of having a child with a diagnosed disorder that isn't severe enough to warrant an IEP (yet), because the child isn't just failing. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do we just stand back and let our child fail because only then will they be "protected" by an IEP? Or are we proactive and stay on top of them by supporting them the way we know they need to be supported?

ETA: My instinct would be for him to only be given credit for the words that he personally spelled on the test and automatically counting off the three words that he copied. It seems like that would be actually fair, make sure that his goal of getting an A didn't happen as a result of his actions, and demonstrate that tests are about showing what you actually know.
I really feel for all of this. This is something I struggle with frequently.....how far do I allow it to go before I am actually responsible myself?

Your consequence would have been very reasonable. Ironically enough, I just tested him (after he finished writing the words as we discussed) and the only word he missed was building (he wrote biulding) and that was not a word he copied.

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Old 11-17-2012, 05:08 PM   #22
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How do you feel he got off easy? He wasn't offered a retest option, and he was given an administrative referral for a first offense. None if that is part of the policy.
The admin referral was a warning. Even if it does go on his record it means nothing unless he starts a habit if it. Imo having to do a retest is more of a punishment.

Maybe it is because my kids are older but i see this as something very minor that i wouldn't bring up to the teacher or admin. You talked with him, his teacher and principal talked with him. Imo that's where it ends. Will he do it again - most likely not.

If there is a communication issue or you feel he needs an iep that is a separate issue that i would being up. Having an iep wouldn't change what happened. If you feel he needs one but the teacher won't start it then go to the principal and if you have to school board.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:14 PM   #23
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Actually, I'd bypass the teacher for the IEP and call the head of special education for the building. The teacher does not have the authority to approve or deny sped services and/or sped re-evaluation.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:48 PM   #24
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Re: Help with 7yo school issue?

She said the request had to come from the teacher so that's why I said that. Though that does sound odd & I thought that in the US if you requested in writing they HAD 30 days to do it. I am guessing this may be a private school though.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:56 PM   #25
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Re: Help with 7yo school issue?

I was kinda wondering the same thing. The teacher not having email is just unusual to me. But I also exist in a public school world and we have 1200 kids at one of my schools and 4000 at the other, so we get A LOT of email every day. We also do a lot of CYA, so we do a lot of parent contact and document it all.

OP--what type of school does your child attend?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #26
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Re: Help with 7yo school issue?

I don't use the PS system, but I thought I'd offer my POV anyway. Disregard if it's not helpful. I have a 7 year old with some learning issues. We HS, and I've been able to work with her in different ways to help her, and I've never told her she's not smart/behind/ect. And yet, she knows she struggles. It is HARD for her. Especially writing and spelling. She would never be able to pass a 20 word spelling test. And writing the words 7 times wouldn't help her learn to spell them. It's just not how her brain works. She wants SO badly to do well, she wants SO badly to be able to spell correctly. She gets so frustrated when she writes and has to fix her mistakes. I can only imagine the pressure she would feel if she were made to test, keep up with writing the words quickly, and KNOW she wasn't doing well. I don't know that she would figure out how to cheat, but IF she had the opportunity, I think she would. And she is a very honest, hard working, overall awesome kid. Her desire to do good and please her teacher would outweigh her ability to resist the 'help'. I do not believe she has a character flaw at all, and, from what you've said about your son, I don't believe he does either. When kiddos have LD, it is SO hard for them to feel like they are coming up short or failing at something AGAIN.
I don't have any advice about what to do in this situation specifically, (although I do agree is was harsher that needed) but I'd definitely try for an IEP again. If it gets him the individual help he needs, he won't feel like he has to cheat to keep up. Plus, his teacher will have to abide by the IEP as well. I hope you find a good solution.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:48 PM   #27
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She said the request had to come from the teacher so that's why I said that. Though that does sound odd & I thought that in the US if you requested in writing they HAD 30 days to do it. I am guessing this may be a private school though.
She does have to be a part of the IEP meeting and has to recommend it or not recommend it. She has to agree that he needs the IEP in order to har admin agree that he needs it. In our district there are so many children who are higher needs that those who fall lower on the totem pole are denied. It is sad but there are just not enough resources available for middle of the road kids here.
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Originally Posted by luvsviola
I was kinda wondering the same thing. The teacher not having email is just unusual to me. But I also exist in a public school world and we have 1200 kids at one of my schools and 4000 at the other, so we get A LOT of email every day. We also do a lot of CYA, so we do a lot of parent contact and document it all.

OP--what type of school does your child attend?
It is public, and on the schools site, you can go to a contact link where they have the teacher listed. From there you can get their preferred method of communication, which in this case is the school office number and a message left to please call. I would love email. Although something like this could go sour in a world where theres no tone of voice. Kwim? Phone or in person is probably better to get my point across.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:54 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mommy2abigail
I don't use the PS system, but I thought I'd offer my POV anyway. Disregard if it's not helpful. I have a 7 year old with some learning issues. We HS, and I've been able to work with her in different ways to help her, and I've never told her she's not smart/behind/ect. And yet, she knows she struggles. It is HARD for her. Especially writing and spelling. She would never be able to pass a 20 word spelling test. And writing the words 7 times wouldn't help her learn to spell them. It's just not how her brain works. She wants SO badly to do well, she wants SO badly to be able to spell correctly. She gets so frustrated when she writes and has to fix her mistakes. I can only imagine the pressure she would feel if she were made to test, keep up with writing the words quickly, and KNOW she wasn't doing well. I don't know that she would figure out how to cheat, but IF she had the opportunity, I think she would. And she is a very honest, hard working, overall awesome kid. Her desire to do good and please her teacher would outweigh her ability to resist the 'help'. I do not believe she has a character flaw at all, and, from what you've said about your son, I don't believe he does either. When kiddos have LD, it is SO hard for them to feel like they are coming up short or failing at something AGAIN.
I don't have any advice about what to do in this situation specifically, (although I do agree is was harsher that needed) but I'd definitely try for an IEP again. If it gets him the individual help he needs, he won't feel like he has to cheat to keep up. Plus, his teacher will have to abide by the IEP as well. I hope you find a good solution.
Thanks for your input. I appreciate your viewpoint. While he is a pleaser, he has a very short patience fuse and anything that takes a little effort (that he doesn't want to do) is a nightmare. He didn't have trouble with the words. He knew them, he didn't NEED to cheat. In that sense, if the words were indeed on the board even accidentally and he saw them, its likely he would have thought 'I'm gonna write them down so I can be done before everyone else!' That would have been characteristic of him.

As far as we know he doesn't see anything different about himself. In fact I have to be careful when I am trying to get him to tone down his behaviors in front of others because I don't want to make him feel like he is weird/or not normal. I want to protect him and he is socially awkward most of the time and just doesn't see it. Most people don't know of his special needs so they just think 'what in the world......?' Lol.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:10 PM   #29
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Re: Help with 7yo school issue?

Please update how it goes on Monday! I want know what this teacher has to say!
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:38 PM   #30
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Most likely it will be Tuesday. The last two times I've called her she has called back the next day. I will definitely update.

I should add... I spoke with my friend tonight who is also a second grade teacher at the same school and she was appalled that I received no call and his referral was an office referral (I guess there are teacher referrals also that stay between teacher and parent). She said she would have kept him in at recess, had him retest and offered a grade lower as a result as well as called me to discuss after school. There would have been no referral, certainly not an office one (which is more serious) and it would have been done and dealt with. In regard to the principal not contacting me, she said there is the possibility that she would have assumed the teacher had done it, since she'd already taken the step to refer him to her. Se should have checked but I digress. She didn't have anything to say in regards to his teacher as she doesn't know her personally (this is his teachers first year here). She recommended that I call her, tell her what I know, ask for her side, explain the consequences he received at home and that I feel the referral was out of order. I can tell her that I was disappointed in the lack of communication about his recent behavior and this situation on top of that. I should be clear that I am to get a call if behaviors continue so that I can deal with it accordingly. If she neglects to continue communication then I should go over her to the principal at that point. I am also not required to sign the referral, which I will not do at this point. We shall see but I'm sure they'll have something to say about that or tell DS he can't have recess until its signed. I refuse to sign something I disagree with on principle.
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