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Old 01-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #161
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Re: The spanking debate.

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Originally Posted by Kiliki View Post
google. lol. It's not family friendly enough to explain here.
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Originally Posted by JennTheMomma View Post
Omgosh. Ok, thanks!

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Old 01-16-2013, 04:12 PM   #162
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Re: The spanking debate.

To be honest I feel that it really depends on the situation. There have been a couple of times that my oldest has been spanked. But it has been for something that he could have potentially hurt himself severely. It is not a regular occurence though. It works for him, whereas with my youngest you only have to slightly raise your voice and you have his full attention. I personally was only spanked a couple of times as a child, I learned from my sister's mistakes, well at least how to not get caught. Anyways, I do not hate my parents for spanking me, however there were some times that a simple taking away of privilages or time out may have been sufficient. I have learned from the way they disciplined and I have modified how my children have been disciplined. My oldest does not get spanked in public that way he is not embarrassed in front of other people, because I think that is demeaning to him. He is not going to remember that he did something potentially harmful to himself if he is embarrassed or worried about what other people think of him. I know there are people who say that it is "illegal" to spank your kids or that children services will take them away if you spank them. However, children services will not take your children if you spank them, there is a very clear line between spanking and abuse, as for it being illegal, it is not. The law tries to stay out of how parents discipline, unless it crosses the line to abuse at that point they will step in.

I know this is a very touchy subject and I believe that the answer is really up to each set of parents to decide how their child is disciplined. Everybody has their own parenting style and as the old saying goes "to each their own."
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:27 PM   #163
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Re: The spanking debate.

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Originally Posted by raymark View Post
I am very anti spanking!!!

I have nothing but foul nasty words for those who do spank & wish they were more interested in seeking the resources to become better patents than they are in smacking their kids.

What really disgusts me is the large # of spanking parents who scream animal abuse when a stranger smacks a puppy for disobedience but have no problem with smacking their own child ?!?!
After reading your post in this thread, I can't help but wonder if you that or someone close to you was abused through "spanking".

Spanking is NOT smacking your child around. If you see someone smacking their child around, that is abuse.

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Originally Posted by JasmineMama View Post
I don't spank...they are my babies. Every time I look at them I think of how I cried and laughed and was a mess of joy when I found out I was carrying them. I think of how I cradled them in my stomach and felt a special bond growing. I think of holding them for the first time and watching them latch on to nurse. I think of seeing them both in the hospital (one for a childhood illness the other for a surgery) and how scared I was how desperately I wanted to trade them places. I think of all the times they look at me with the light in their eyes that says to me so clearly "you are my whole world mommy." And then I think how spanking would diminish that light until it no longer poured from their eyes when they looked at me until they became fearful and avoidant of me. I want to teach them that respect is just that: it is respecting humans and boundaries and feelings. It is about using words to express to someone how you feel, it is about conveying yourself with dignity, it is about learning that you can never control anyone but yourself.

I'm sure hitting would get almost anyone to do anything for the period of time they were being watched...if someone held a gun to my head, I'm sure I would follow their commands, but would I respect them? No.

All that being said, my kids are babies. I can think of a lot of teens and twentysomethings I want to hit. So, maybe I'll change my mind when they are 14/15.
This post is kind of out there


The light does not diminish from the child's eyes. They do not become fearful.They do not try to avoid their mommy.

The parents I know that spank, and yes I am one of them, do not use spanking instead of words to convey things to their child. I've never seen someone say that a parent uses a spanking to convey to the child how they feel.

Comparing spanking to holding a gun to someones head is...Well.. odd.




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Originally Posted by raymark View Post
Pain and fear prevent critical thinking.
Not sure which response best suites this or

Have you ever spoken to someone that survived a far more painful or fearful situation than just a spanking? If not, read stories of people that survived capture and torture. Sometimes critical thinking goes into hyper drive in order to survive. Just sayin'...

Once again if a parent is inflicting so much pain or instilling such levels of fear in a child that it impairs their critical thinking skills, that is ABUSE.

I'm the oldest of 9 kids. All of us were spanked. None of us "feared" our parents or had our critical thinking skills harmed in the process.All 9 of us have grown up to be capable,decent people. Several of us have started our own businesses and done well. None of us have ever been fired from a job. None of us have ever vandalized anything.None of us have ever done drugs etc.

One of my younger brothers was just voted in as the top young businessman in one of the largest metropolitan cities in our State.Not bad at all for a guy in his mid 20's IMHO.

Another sister is ARMY. She has earned multiple honors. She was one of the top graduates from Drill Sargent school a few months ago. She earned Iron Drill Sergeant and made the Commandants List. In December she made 787th Military Police Battalion Drill Sergeant of the Quarter. I'd say it is a pretty safe bet to say she does not lack critical thinking skills. FWIW, she was one of the most spanked out of the 9 of us.


My baby sister graduated school at 16. She is turning 19 this and is currently working in Brazil.

I could go on and on about each of my siblings but I'll spare you.

All of us are hard working people with a great respect for the world and people round us.

We LOVE, not FEAR, our parents.

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Originally Posted by raymark View Post
You sound really misinformed.

Could you provide me with a list of publications you've studied & seminars you've attended that led you to the beliefs you have concerning spanking?

I strive to educate myself on becomming a better parent every day of my life - I have an entire bookcase of parenting based literature, and attend parenting related seminars several times a year. I have never came across what you are proposing here.

Spanked children practically account for the entire amount of children involved in violent crimes, stealing, and defacing of property.

It is not sound to suggest that my children have no consequences for their actions. Even if I imposed no additional consequences for their actions (good or bad) there is a consequence for every action....it is a law of science.

I have not stated what parenting system , or systems, I use. I have only stated that I am anti spanking.
I too have been to lectures and have shelves full of books by various authors. I don't think there is enough data to conclusively say that children who are spanked, while being raised in a loving home, are at a greater risk for what you have described. If you have read that, please let me know where.

In what you studied, were these children spanked by parents that truly care for them or children ABUSED by parents that call it spanking? There is a difference.


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Originally Posted by raymark View Post
To answer your question - what do I do when my child defies me:

It really depends on age, situation, & my child's understanding of our homes basic rules. Often times I ask my children open ended questions concerning why they disagree, what different scenarios would they prefer to occur, & what they feel are the pros & cons to those scenarios. Sometimes we act different situations out & role play. Most of the time I have no problem with letting my children try things their way - such as no coat on a cold day, or mustard on pancakes, or a spilled cup of milk because they want to try to pour it themselves. My children very rarely hear 'no' when they want to try something that could inconvenience me but does no more harm than make a mess or get noisy.

If the situation involved harming a person or animal it is an immediate time out - then i listen to my child attempt to put words to the emotions she was feeling & we talk about better ways to express strong emmotions than hitting or shoving.

I ask my girls to brainstorm a lot! They brainstorm ways to make putting toys away (or other negatively perceived tasks) fun.

Mostly, I don't get so busy that my children are ignored. I anticipate their needs. Meeting basic needs of having healthy snacks available at all times, providing my kids with a great bed time routine, getting fresh air several times a day, well planned out activities.......it all makes such an impact!!!
Do not all parents that care for their children do the bolded?

Do you think those that spank DON'T do these things

Are you saying that instead of my letting my children brainstorm fun ways to put up toys I run into the room spanking them and carrying on and on about putting up toys? That instead of talking about their emotions and actions they are doled out a spanking? That instead of feeding my children I spank them when they are hungry? That instead of making sure their needs are met I just spank them? That instead of doing activities with them I spank them to help them see that boredom isn't so bad? That a mother who spanks must be doing so because she doesn't anticipate the needs of her child?

Seriously?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiliki View Post
OK, so just to recap, those who do spank are:

Lazy
Ignorant
Unreasonable in their expectations
Abusive
Violent
possibly BDSM freaks
unable to predict their child's needs ahead of time
unable to respond to their child's needs appropriately
do not provide healthy snacks/meals
don't give adequate play time, especially outdoors
ignore their children - unless to whack them


I'm trying to compile a list that described my parenting style, so I can put it in my siggy...
Pretty much!

FTR, you may not be able to get all that in your siggy

Quote:
Originally Posted by raymark View Post
I also have a very demanding life. But I choose to put my children first & make it a priority to continue to better myself as a parent. I am never too tired for my children! There are single mothers holding down 2 jobs that don't resort to spanking their children just because it's nearing the end of yet another long day.
You could think about replacing 1/2 of your time on this forum with studying a few good parenting publications. Aren't your kids worth it? If my life was so busy I felt I had no choice but to sometimes spank my children to get my way I truly would not have children. I'm guessing you have the time to speak with adults vs smack them into getting your point across - don't your kids deserve the same?
I'm not the member you directed this to but I'll bite.

I spend time on here. A lot of time. I also have a shelf full of books that help one understand the dynamics of families, the role of parents, different methods of parenting a child. I've taken parenting classes by choice. There is not a day that goes by where I am not actively involved with my children.

You are being really rude IMHO. You will not ever win anyone over with post like these. They reek of judgement. You have been very belittling to those that do choose to spank. You are "smacking" members here imho to make what you eel is your point. I don't see you being very kind/polite to the adults posting to this thread...

Anyhoo, You seem to equate spanking with physical abuse.

Spanking children is not about the parent "getting their way" A parent that loves their child and is doing their very best to ensure the emotional well being of said child does not "smack their child until they get their point across" If you have witnessed that, you are witnessing abuse.

It may behoove you to do a little more reading into the differences between parents that hit out of abuse and claim they are spanking and loving parents that use spanking as part of child rearing.

For someone that is being so outspoken on the subject of spanking, you seem to have very little understanding of a spanking versus beating/abuse.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchMama2010 View Post
I was spanked, we don't and won't. I won't hit my kids in anger, and if I'm going to wait to deal with bad behavior until I'm not angry, then I can use that break to find a more effective solution than spanking.
Once again, NO CHILD should ever be hit in anger. Ever.
Anger has no place in the rearing of children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JennTheMomma View Post
Yeah you can't look at a study and say spanking = criminal once they get older. Other things come into play. How was the child spanked, for how long, spanked with objects, etc? Was the home very stressful and tense, did parents also yell or do other punishments, were kids neglected, etc? Many things come into play, not just the fact that they were spanked.

While I am against spanking in my home and for my children, I have friends who are spankers and I respect them. I don't think ill of them or think they are abusers or that their kids will grow up to be criminals. They are still very loving parents and their children are happy and healthy.
Thank you.

As a mother that does spank, I just want to say that this is one of the most polite post I have seen in this thread from someone that chooses not to spank their own children.



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Originally Posted by *KaiMom* View Post
Haven't posted in a locked thread recently; so I thought I'd stop in and make a post.


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Originally Posted by ulawolf View Post
Wow arent we all harsh of the bdsm lifestyle. That might need to be the s/o thread


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Originally Posted by ajane View Post
What the heck is BDSM?

If you spank, but not out of anger can you give me an example please? I'm just not sure what place the spanking has. Oh, and this isn't snarky, I just don't know.



agree
On the biolded, you were not spanked as a child or you would know all about this Google carefully





I'll try to give you an example on the other.


Lets say my younger son has been really testy. That nothing we do is working to halt his "testiness". He doesn't want to color, he is sick of the trampoline, his belly is full,he is well rested.

He has just decided to pester his siblings.

I *could* tell him that he has to go and play by himself because he is pestering his siblings. I don't. Here is what would happen.

"Son, if you do not stop pestering you will get a spanking." He knows he is pestering. He knows he will get a spanking (not a beating!) if he does not stop. He may make the choice to continue to pester or he may make the choice to stop. He is capable of either choice but one of those choices does bring a consequence. For us, removing him from the room to go somewhere alone is not an option.I am not going to send him away from the rest of us for time out. I don't want to banish him from the family for any length of time. Actually, I have found that sending a child away from the family is tougher on them than a spanking (not saying it is wrong for those that do this.Just saying we don't here)

Let us say he stops pestering.
Great!
I notice and tell him I am proud he made the choice to be kind and we will then just continue with our normal day.

Let us say he makes the choice to try to get one last jab in.
He will then take a walk down the hallway with me to my room. I will explain to him that he made the choice to continue with an action that is not allowed. He will get a swat or two. He may or may not cry. He will be hugged.He will be reminded that he is loved but that his action is not allowed. He then returns with me to the rest of the family where he will make an apology to them. They forgive him and we all go on about our day.

FWIW, I'm using that son as an example because my youngest doesn't get spankings (she is 2) and my 6 year old has only been spanked twice in his entire life. My oldest two don't get spankings anymore.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:29 PM   #164
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Re: The spanking debate.

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Really? Because I really could care less. How other people choose to parent their kids is solely up to them. I am not a perfect parent. I have flaws. MOST importantly, I don't know how other peoples kids are. I only know how mine are. And no, what I am taking personally, is being told that my way is the WRONG way, that my way is abusive, and lazy, and that I don't care about my kids because I choose to discipline them in a different way than some people prefer or choose. THAT'S what I take personally.
Don't forget that you also don't anticipate your children's needs and provide snacks in a timely manner. I pride myself on being able to do these things. I recognize that my children are much more successful at behaving when well rested and well fed. I also recognize that sometimes life just happens and we STILL have to behave. I don't think that allowing my children to act a fool just because they are hungry/tired is ok. They have to learn how to behave in spite of how they feel.

Kiliki, your example with your 4yo sounds like my youngest. I think that child seriously desires someone to place limits for him and MAKE him stick to them, expecially when you realize that the unhappiness that lasts for 20-30 minutes during all of the time that was spent attempting to rationalize, coax, coerce, listen, give space, and understand gets resolved in a 3 second spanking and 30 second "recovery."

And now, because it seems so appropriate for this thread:
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:31 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~happy2Bamommy~

After reading your post in this thread, I can't help but wonder if you that or someone close to you was abused through "spanking".

Spanking is NOT smacking your child around. If you see someone smacking their child around, that is abuse.

This post is kind of out there

The light does not diminish from the child's eyes. They do not become fearful.They do not try to avoid their mommy.

The parents I know that spank, and yes I am one of them, do not use spanking instead of words to convey things to their child. I've never seen someone say that a parent uses a spanking to convey to the child how they feel.

Comparing spanking to holding a gun to someones head is...Well.. odd.

Not sure which response best suites this or

Once again if a parent is inflicting so much pain or instilling such levels of fear in a child that it impairs their critical thinking skills, that is ABUSE.

I'm the oldest of 9 kids. All of us were spanked. None of us "feared" our parents or had our critical thinking skills harmed in the process.All 9 of us have grown up to be capable,decent people. Several of us have started our own businesses and done well. None of us have ever been fired from a job. None of us have ever vandalized anything.None of us have ever done drugs etc.

One of my younger brothers was just voted in as the top young businessman in one of the largest metropolitan cities in our State.Not bad at all for a guy in his mid 20's IMHO.

Another sister is ARMY. She has earned multiple honors. She was one of the top graduates from Drill Sargent school a few months ago. She earned Iron Drill Sergeant and made the Commandants List. In December she made 787th Military Police Battalion Drill Sergeant of the Quarter. I'd say it is a pretty safe bet to say she does not lack critical thinking skills. FWIW, she was one of the most spanked out of the 9 of us.

My baby sister graduated school at 16. She is turning 19 this and is currently working in Brazil.

I could go on and on about each of my siblings but I'll spare you.

All of us are hard working people with a great respect for the world and people round us.

We LOVE, not FEAR, our parents.

I too have been to lectures and have shelves full of books by various authors. I don't think there is enough data to conclusively say that children who are spanked, while being raised in a loving home, are at a greater risk for what you have described. If you have read that, please let me know where.

In what you studied, were these children spanked by parents that truly care for them or children ABUSED by parents that call it spanking? There is a difference.

Do not all parents that care for their children do the bolded?

Do you think those that spank DON'T do these things

Are you saying that instead of my letting my children brainstorm fun ways to put up toys I run into the room spanking them and carrying on and on about putting up toys? That instead of talking about their emotions and actions they are doled out a spanking? That instead of feeding my children I spank them when they are hungry? That instead of making sure their needs are met I just spank them? That instead of doing activities with them I spank them to help them see that boredom isn't so bad? That a mother who spanks must be doing so because she doesn't anticipate the needs of her child?

Seriously?

Pretty much!

FTR, you may not be able to get all that in your siggy

I'm not the member you directed this to but I'll bite.

I spend time on here. A lot of time. I also have a shelf full of books that help one understand the dynamics of families, the role of parents, different methods of parenting a child. I've taken parenting classes by choice. There is not a day that goes by where I am not actively involved with my children.

You are being really rude IMHO. You will not ever win anyone over with post like these. They reek of judgement. You have been very belittling to those that do choose to spank. You are "smacking" members here imho to make what you eel is your point. I don't see you being very kind/polite to the adults posting to this thread...

Anyhoo, You seem to equate spanking with physical abuse.

Spanking children is not about the parent "getting their way" A parent that loves their child and is doing their very best to ensure the emotional well being of said child does not "smack their child until they get their point across" If you have witnessed that, you are witnessing abuse.

It may behoove you to do a little more reading into the differences between parents that hit out of abuse and claim they are spanking and loving parents that use spanking as part of child rearing.

For someone that is being so outspoken on the subject of spanking, you seem to have very little understanding of a spanking versus beating/abuse.

Once again, NO CHILD should ever be hit in anger. Ever.
Anger has no place in the rearing of children.

Thank you.

As a mother that does spank, I just want to say that this is one of the most polite post I have seen in this thread from someone that chooses not to spank their own children.





On the biolded, you were not spanked as a child or you would know all about this Google carefully

I'll try to give you an example on the other.

Lets say my younger son has been really testy. That nothing we do is working to halt his "testiness". He doesn't want to color, he is sick of the trampoline, his belly is full,he is well rested.

He has just decided to pester his siblings.

I *could* tell him that he has to go and play by himself because he is pestering his siblings. I don't. Here is what would happen.

"Son, if you do not stop pestering you will get a spanking." He knows he is pestering. He knows he will get a spanking (not a beating!) if he does not stop. He may make the choice to continue to pester or he may make the choice to stop. He is capable of either choice but one of those choices does bring a consequence. For us, removing him from the room to go somewhere alone is not an option.I am not going to send him away from the rest of us for time out. I don't want to banish him from the family for any length of time. Actually, I have found that sending a child away from the family is tougher on them than a spanking (not saying it is wrong for those that do this.Just saying we don't here)

Let us say he stops pestering.
Great!
I notice and tell him I am proud he made the choice to be kind and we will then just continue with our normal day.

Let us say he makes the choice to try to get one last jab in.
He will then take a walk down the hallway with me to my room. I will explain to him that he made the choice to continue with an action that is not allowed. He will get a swat or two. He may or may not cry. He will be hugged.He will be reminded that he is loved but that his action is not allowed. He then returns with me to the rest of the family where he will make an apology to them. They forgive him and we all go on about our day.

FWIW, I'm using that son as an example because my youngest doesn't get spankings (she is 2) and my 6 year old has only been spanked twice in his entire life. My oldest two don't get spankings anymore.

You are spot on. I agree with every single one of your points!!!!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #166
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Re: The spanking debate.

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Omgosh. Ok, thanks!
Got a new wrinkle in your brain today huh
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:34 PM   #167
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Don't forget that you also don't anticipate your children's needs and provide snacks in a timely manner. I pride myself on being able to do these things. I recognize that my children are much more successful at behaving when well rested and well fed. I also recognize that sometimes life just happens and we STILL have to behave. I don't think that allowing my children to act a fool just because they are hungry/tired is ok. They have to learn how to behave in spite of how they feel.

Kiliki, your example with your 4yo sounds like my youngest. I think that child seriously desires someone to place limits for him and MAKE him stick to them, expecially when you realize that the unhappiness that lasts for 20-30 minutes during all of the time that was spent attempting to rationalize, coax, coerce, listen, give space, and understand gets resolved in a 3 second spanking and 30 second "recovery."

And now, because it seems so appropriate for this thread:

I believe I may have to save this one.

I like it just as well as my train wreck but yours is bigger (and bigger is better!)

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Old 01-16-2013, 05:22 PM   #168
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Re: The spanking debate.

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I don't think all of us who don't spank even come close to believing that all people who do are abusers, I personally don't and would NEVER flippantly call anyone that.

I think to each his own, if that's the discipline route you choose and works for your child and family then all the power to you. We each have to do what is right and best for our families and just because I choose one way doesn't mean that's what's best for everyone.

This. I don't spank but I wasn't spanked as a child either. I just get tired of hearing how my children are going to be "out of control" when they're teenagers because I don't "beat their @$$". I don't tell you (general you) how to parent so please don't tell me.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #169
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This provided me with a good 15 minutes of entertainment. Time to find a "I'm thinking about bottle feeding my newborn, what do y'all think?" thread...

Soryr fro typos. Setn by iPhone.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:55 PM   #170
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Re: The spanking debate.

I just wanted to say, to happy2Bamommy that although, yes, anger shouldn't have a place in rearing children and children shouldn't be spanked in anger, most times they are imo. I am NOT saying that anyone who says they very calmly spank is lying but I'm just telling you, any smacks or spanking I've seen dished out were absolutely in anger. Publicly and privately, with strangers and people that I know.
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