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Old 01-20-2013, 04:47 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by qsefthuko

I don't know about your kids but if allowed mine will polish off a jumbo bag of chips in one day. A bag of carrots lasts longer. I only buy chips when I am craving them so maybe once every couple of months. Aldis carrots cost us .50 cents a lb.

I am wondering though if those who claim junk food I'd cheeper are comparing organic Veges with non organic junk food. This to me isn't a valid comparison. No matter which store I go to even our higher priced potatoes(except organic) are still cheaper than a lb of chips.
To the second paragraph, no. In small towns like mine during the winter fresh produce is sky high. Canned, boxed and frozen are cheap (non organic). Chips and frozen dinners are super cheap compared to a fresh balanced meal. Most store brand can be purchased for $1, and is loaded with junk. But fresh apples are $4.99 lb right now (non organic) and since 1 apple is pretty heavy, you can't get much for 1 lb or a family of say 4.

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Old 01-20-2013, 04:52 PM   #152
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Many things are to blame. I do not for 1 second think that it is 100% of the parents fault. Food prices, school lunches, long school days and bus rides with a lot of home work, too much salt, sugar and artificial crap in foods, bad advice from Doctors, and more. Our society plays a huge role and you can see that when you look at other countries. No 1 person is 100% responsible for it.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:28 PM   #153
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

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But fresh apples are $4.99 lb right now (non organic) and since 1 apple is pretty heavy, you can't get much for 1 lb or a family of say 4.
OMG, where do you live?!?!?!

I was JUST at the store, like 2 hrs ago, buying apples, among other things. Most apples, non organic are on sale for 99c a pound. And even Honeycrisps, which are the most expensive, non organic (well, organic Honeycrisps are the most expensive, but I don't believe in buying organic so I dunno what those prices were ranging) were $3.49 a pound. And Honeycrisps, for the most part, are already out of season.



Generally speaking...


Here's the thing. There probably are a LOT of factors. But in the end, study after study has shown that generally speaking, parents of the biggest influence on their kids. Yes, the outside world DOES affect our kids, it is afterall, the world we live in. But ultimately, parents are the biggest factor in their kids lives. So ultimately, in terms of childhood obesity, parents ARE the biggest part of the problem. Parents who don't want to bother getting up off the couch to take their kids to the rec center. Parents who buy snickers and doritos and then expect their kids to make school lunches with that. Parents who don't cook. Parents who won't read the label to compare two cups of yogurt before deciding which goes in the cart. Parents who buy their kids a Wii and think they have done something to get their kids moving. In MOST cases, the MOST important factor. And I think that while addressing things like crappy school lunches and lack of recess and urban food deserts and whatever else DOES need to happen...at point, we have to stop trying to shift blame away from the parents so as to avoid offending anyone, and put it back squarely on their shoulders.

Parents have to start doing things like taking their kids for walks, packing their school lunches properly, learning how to cook, turn off the tv, quit hitting the McDonalds drive thru, quit handing their kids food just to keep them quiet, and...setting an example. Parents have the most influence in their kids lives, and if they start doing things like that, kids will see that and take those behaviors in for themselves.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #154
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

Okay, for all of you saying you can be overweight if you eat too much on an extremely healthy diet- I want you to know that I tried it and did NOT find it to be true. I had to go on an extreme elimination diet (for food allergies) and I dropped pounds like crazy and I ate and I ate and I ate and I stuffed myself as much as possible and I was still dropping weight! I was able to add in chocolate coconut milk and drink a ton of that and coconut ice cream before I leveled off.

You're making it sound really easy, but I found it to be painful and difficult to keep any pounds on, no matter how much I ate of my very healthy diet. My nutritionist LOVED what I was eating, and how much I was eating, and we were banging our heads trying to figure out ways to fatten me up.

So I guess I'm saying- if you think that's true, try it and see cause it took ice cream for me to stop losing weight at an alarming rate.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:41 PM   #155
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

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Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post
OMG, where do you live?!?!?!

I was JUST at the store, like 2 hrs ago, buying apples, among other things. Most apples, non organic are on sale for 99c a pound. And even Honeycrisps, which are the most expensive, non organic (well, organic Honeycrisps are the most expensive, but I don't believe in buying organic so I dunno what those prices were ranging) were $3.49 a pound. And Honeycrisps, for the most part, are already out of season.



Generally speaking...


Here's the thing. There probably are a LOT of factors. But in the end, study after study has shown that generally speaking, parents of the biggest influence on their kids. Yes, the outside world DOES affect our kids, it is afterall, the world we live in. But ultimately, parents are the biggest factor in their kids lives. So ultimately, in terms of childhood obesity, parents ARE the biggest part of the problem. Parents who don't want to bother getting up off the couch to take their kids to the rec center. Parents who buy snickers and doritos and then expect their kids to make school lunches with that. Parents who don't cook. Parents who won't read the label to compare two cups of yogurt before deciding which goes in the cart. Parents who buy their kids a Wii and think they have done something to get their kids moving. In MOST cases, the MOST important factor. And I think that while addressing things like crappy school lunches and lack of recess and urban food deserts and whatever else DOES need to happen...at point, we have to stop trying to shift blame away from the parents so as to avoid offending anyone, and put it back squarely on their shoulders.

Parents have to start doing things like taking their kids for walks, packing their school lunches properly, learning how to cook, turn off the tv, quit hitting the McDonalds drive thru, quit handing their kids food just to keep them quiet, and...setting an example. Parents have the most influence in their kids lives, and if they start doing things like that, kids will see that and take those behaviors in for themselves.
I live in Minnesota. In my town we only have 1 option for groceries. It's a chain store, and is more expensive than a place like Aldi's, Walmart, etc. They sell everything there though, organic, non organic, store brand, and regular brand. But since it's a small town they up the prices on everything usually by a dollar or two. I personally only buy a few things there when I run out, because I actually prefer to drive 45 minutes to the "big city" and shop at the co-op where I can get local organic (in season of course) produce/meat/dairy for cheaper than the store closer to me. However, that is not an option for many. Also some places have high taxes on food. I use to shop at the chain store but in a different town and would spend usually $25 more on my entire purchase because of the tax there.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:42 PM   #156
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

We got organic apples today for $1.69lbs (on sale) in Maryland.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:42 PM   #157
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

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Originally Posted by JennTheMomma View Post
To the second paragraph, no. In small towns like mine during the winter fresh produce is sky high. Canned, boxed and frozen are cheap (non organic). Chips and frozen dinners are super cheap compared to a fresh balanced meal. Most store brand can be purchased for $1, and is loaded with junk. But fresh apples are $4.99 lb right now (non organic) and since 1 apple is pretty heavy, you can't get much for 1 lb or a family of say 4.
So buy frozen. Frozen produce is awesome. Also, apples are not in season right now, so that contributes to the high prices. Oranges and grapefruits are in season, so prices on those items should be better. But, seriously, go with frozen produce--in some cases, it is better than fresh, and it is usually cheaper. You may need to alter how you prepare it if texture is important.

Have you ever made kale chips? Kale is in season right now, and my kids gobble kale chips up. Also roasted broccoli or brussels sprouts or sweet potatoes (all in season right now) are big hits in our house.

A bowl of chips is nutritionally devoid and does nothing to stave off hunger. But, half a sweet potato, cut in rounds, brushed with olive oil, sprinkled with sea salt, and roasted? Delicious, cheap, and it will stay with you!

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Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post
OMG, where do you live?!?!?!

I was JUST at the store, like 2 hrs ago, buying apples, among other things. Most apples, non organic are on sale for 99c a pound. And even Honeycrisps, which are the most expensive, non organic (well, organic Honeycrisps are the most expensive, but I don't believe in buying organic so I dunno what those prices were ranging) were $3.49 a pound. And Honeycrisps, for the most part, are already out of season.



Generally speaking...


Here's the thing. There probably are a LOT of factors. But in the end, study after study has shown that generally speaking, parents of the biggest influence on their kids. Yes, the outside world DOES affect our kids, it is afterall, the world we live in. But ultimately, parents are the biggest factor in their kids lives. So ultimately, in terms of childhood obesity, parents ARE the biggest part of the problem. Parents who don't want to bother getting up off the couch to take their kids to the rec center. Parents who buy snickers and doritos and then expect their kids to make school lunches with that. Parents who don't cook. Parents who won't read the label to compare two cups of yogurt before deciding which goes in the cart. Parents who buy their kids a Wii and think they have done something to get their kids moving. In MOST cases, the MOST important factor. And I think that while addressing things like crappy school lunches and lack of recess and urban food deserts and whatever else DOES need to happen...at point, we have to stop trying to shift blame away from the parents so as to avoid offending anyone, and put it back squarely on their shoulders.

Parents have to start doing things like taking their kids for walks, packing their school lunches properly, learning how to cook, turn off the tv, quit hitting the McDonalds drive thru, quit handing their kids food just to keep them quiet, and...setting an example. Parents have the most influence in their kids lives, and if they start doing things like that, kids will see that and take those behaviors in for themselves.
I agree.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:47 PM   #158
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

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So buy frozen. Frozen produce is awesome. Also, apples are not in season right now, so that contributes to the high prices. Oranges and grapefruits are in season, so prices on those items should be better. But, seriously, go with frozen produce--in some cases, it is better than fresh, and it is usually cheaper. You may need to alter how you prepare it if texture is important.

Have you ever made kale chips? Kale is in season right now, and my kids gobble kale chips up. Also roasted broccoli or brussels sprouts or sweet potatoes (all in season right now) are big hits in our house.

A bowl of chips is nutritionally devoid and does nothing to stave off hunger. But, half a sweet potato, cut in rounds, brushed with olive oil, sprinkled with sea salt, and roasted? Delicious, cheap, and it will stay with you!


I agree.
Yes I'm aware of what is in season, it was just an example. *I* shop in season, this was just an example of what prices are like in the store that is available here, wasn't an example of what I actually buy. And I wasn't talking about frozen produce, I was talking about frozen dinners, they are a lot cheaper than a fresh balanced meal is what I meant. (and not to be snotty, but I only cook with fresh food. I cook from scratch, which cean be cheaper, usually, than buying a weeks worth of boxed meals. That is if you know how to do it. I use to be a Chef ).

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Old 01-20-2013, 07:07 PM   #159
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

I definitely think food prices can be more challenging for healthy food. It is absolutely possible to save $$ and eat healthy but requires more flexibility, planning, etc. I want to cry every week when I see our grocery bill (but to be fair..I dont coupon and rarely shop around due to limited time)
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:49 PM   #160
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Re: Let's talk childhood obesity....

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To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that government step in and build supermarkets or something like that. My point was that "food deserts" exist, in part, because it so much more profitable for small stores to sell things like Coke and Fritos and candy (i.e., corn and corn and corn) at high markups because government subsidies artificially deflate the cost of manufacturing those kinds of foods. Families in food deserts often turn to fast food because the artificially-deflated price of factory-farmed meat may make it a more economically feasible option than the time/money involved in loading the whole family onto public transportation to shop. (As for "choosing to live there," many low-income, urban families live in public housing and cannot choose where they live or afford to move.)

Yeah, that inner-city mom should take personal responsibility and pay $2.25 each way for herself and and $2.25 each way for each of her three kids to get on the subway on her one day off to go to the farmer's market across town instead of just getting what's cheap at the corner bodega--if she can afford all that money for transportation, of course. She should take time from work--hope she doesn't get fired--to investigate her school lunch program and when she finds it's nutritionally lacking, she should send her kids with lunch from home instead--if she can afford it, of course, and still be able to pay her rent). But I think that mom might also be well-served if we ended the programs that ensure that cheap, crappy food is easily available to everyone and instead found ways to make healthier food available to everyone. People make a lot of terrible, uninformed, and lazy choices. I can't argue with that. But I also think the deck is stacked, and the imbalance is particularly acute among the populations that are least likely to have the time, money, and resources to combat the problems.

I don't think we should say "the government is to blame for obesity and therefore we're all collectively off the hook" but I also think it's naive to pretend that the other social and political factors don't contribute to the obesity crisis. Farm subsidies change the food landscape, radically. The school lunch program dumps unhealthy food into children and trains their palates to like bland, greasy, fatty, sugary foods. I think it's naive to think that parents and children are not susceptible to the constant assault of food advertising. I think it's naive to think that every parent has the time and resources to parse the health claims printed in big letters on every package of cereal. I think it's naive to think that it's simple for everyone to resist the biological impulses to consume fat and sugar, when fat and sugar are exceedingly cheap and omnipresent.

We eat a reasonably clean diet, but I'm not blind to how much time and money it costs us to do that and how much research it takes to cut through all the marketing bs. I think many parents genuinely think they are doing the "right" thing when they choose juice over soda, or feed their babies processed rice cereal, or choose the cereal that says "whole grains" not realizing that it's still chock-full of sugar. I think they think they are doing the "right" thing when they take advantage of the free breakfast program at their local school or let their kids eat the school lunch.
Well, I am going to start by saying this is a really good post.

Just a couple of things, though I do agree with a lot of it. When I said it was my choice to move to a relative food desert, I do understand that my choices may be more diverse and plentiful than another's choices. I get that. I think that, in general, where I drift to every time in these arguments, is that most people have plenty of adequate and reasonable choices, and still make poor choices. The vast majority of people don't live in a food desert. The vast majority of people live with access to a market in which many choices can be found. If food deserts and poor communities were the only geographical locations turning out a multitude of obese children, it would be easy to pinpoint this as the issue. But, it's not. I live in an extremely wealthy neighborhood and there are many, many obese and overweight people. Some are children, and their parents are making poor choices.

And with the very poor single mothers and all the issues you laid out above -- Honestly, I still cannot place blame on corn, factory-farming, and dairy subsidies. I place blame on all of the other reasons those particular people are disenfranchised, with ridiculous wages, and little access to affordable daycare, and crippling medical costs, and the myriad of other reasons that many poor people are continually beaten down and oppressed. You will find me arguing in basically every thread on DS how much social welfare and justice is the hallmark of what I believe needs to be paramount in our politics. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, but I am definitely liberal. But, with food and obesity, I just don't buy that the average person needs some sort of enhanced knowledge simply to eat healthily. Many people live in Hamburger Helper. It's not because they are ignorant, it's because it's easy and it cooks in twelve minutes. But, most people could purchase the same pound of beef they were already purchasing, and then purchase noodles and sour cream instead of the HH and make a less salty copy. And the reality is that most people would rather it be easy.

And with farm subsidies - I don't really think many people here are against them in theory, just in how they are currently executed. If they were all wiped out today and tomorrow the new subsidies were based on organic produce, so that more people could eat organically and the price of organic foods was more attractive than non-organic foods, most people here would be ecstatic.
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