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Old 02-04-2013, 11:11 AM   #51
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

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Yes, it does depend on perspective. There are many who consider breastfeeding the baseline for infant feeding, and not "best", if that makes sense. There's a talk on youtube called Breastfeeding is Not Best that addresses this idea, but it may be offensive to some here based on what I'm getting from this conversation.



right, if breastfeeding is the baseline way to feed a baby and formula is an artificial substitute for human milk, then studies and research are going to be compared as risk or benefit to the baseline. It doesn't make sense to do your research the other way around.




Thanks! I miss it...but not enough to resub.
I'm not sure where the baseline is in our society at this point in history. At one point, breastmilk was the baseline. Then it flipped to formula. Not sure if we are that far along enough for it to have completely flipped back. There are definitely pockets (regional, cultural) where formula is the baseline and there are definitely pockets where breastmilk is.

And there's that gray area between breastfeeding yourself (that sounds kind of awkward) and formula that involves donor milk. I have plenty of breastfeeding friends who are skeeved out by the thought of donor milk. I realize it's anecdotal and regional. I would be interested in knowing how the general population of this country views the idea.

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Old 02-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #52
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

I wish I had enough time in my day to care whether someone BF or FF! DD1 never had a drop of formula. DS was FF from day one. DD2 was a mix of both. They are all happy, reasonably healthy, thriving kiddos. The anti-formula moms on here made me feel so guilty when at 9 months old with me working 12 hour days several days a week I couldn't keep up with DD2's feeds at daycare. I was getting up at 4 am to pump extra so that she could have enough to get through the day. Because formula is evil and a good mom doesn't give her baby formula, right?

And you know what? I was stressed out, and the stress from worrying about whether or not DD2 was going to have enough food a daycare, added to the stress of pumping 3 times at work as a middle school teacher, made me a crappy mom and a stressed out teacher. My lesson plans sucked because I was spending my 40 minutes of prep pumping instead of coming up with cool stuff. Switching her to formula full time made me happier at home, at work, a better mom for my kids, and a better teacher for my students. I don't regret it one bit, and should have done it sooner.

We all have our soap boxes, but at the end of the day, who am I to shame you for how you choose to raise your kid? And likewise, how would you feel if the people you were judging were dishing it right back at you for the way you are raising your kiddos?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:36 AM   #53
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

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I'm not sure where the baseline is in our society at this point in history. At one point, breastmilk was the baseline. Then it flipped to formula. Not sure if we are that far along enough for it to have completely flipped back. There are definitely pockets (regional, cultural) where formula is the baseline and there are definitely pockets where breastmilk is.
Sorry, I mean baseline as the biological norm, not as what might be the most popular choice for any given region/country/etc (that would be almost impossible to account for since it changes so quickly!). Since we know breastfeeding is the biological norm, the research and studies with regard to formula (the artificial substitute for the norm) should be compared to that, not the other way around. I see it the same way when birth is studied, as another example. Does xyz intervention improve outcomes over biologically normal birth? So I would say, "Using pitocin increases risk of x", and not "natural birth reduces the risk of x". Like I would also say, "Using formula increases the risk of x" and not, "breastfeeding reduces the chance of x." Does that make sense? And, as another poster put it, this is going to be in terms of public health, and overall scientific findings. Not anecdotes or individual circumstances. Also note that I'm not saying that the biological norm is always the ideal in every case.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:38 AM   #54
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

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We all have our soap boxes, but at the end of the day, who am I to shame you for how you choose to raise your kid? And likewise, how would you feel if the people you were judging were dishing it right back at you for the way you are raising your kiddos?
I really this part of your post. It's so true - in ALL things related to parenting.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:46 AM   #55
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

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Sorry, I mean baseline as the biological norm, not as what might be the most popular choice for any given region/country/etc (that would be almost impossible to account for since it changes so quickly!). Since we know breastfeeding is the biological norm, the research and studies with regard to formula (the artificial substitute for the norm) should be compared to that, not the other way around. I see it the same way when birth is studied, as another example. Does xyz intervention improve outcomes over biologically normal birth? So I would say, "Using pitocin increases risk of x", and not "natural birth reduces the risk of x". Like I would also say, "Using formula increases the risk of x" and not, "breastfeeding reduces the chance of x." Does that make sense? And, as another poster put it, this is going to be in terms of public health, and overall scientific findings. Not anecdotes or individual circumstances. Also note that I'm not saying that the biological norm is always the ideal in every case.
That makes perfect sense. I was just looking at how scientific facts can be presented and received differently based on cultural baselines, er, biases. Facts are facts. Society still colors how we interpret them.

Strangely, even though I personally see breastfeeding and medication free childbirth as the baseline, the immediate world around me doesn't. So I am seen as a crunchy/hippie/earthy type as opposed to the logical/sciencey/research based type.

I want more people to get all crunchy/hippie/earthy/logical/sciency/research based with me. It gets lonely.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:16 PM   #56
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

And, again, some people feel the need to come to this thread with their data and links to try to prove that breast is best when no one in this thread has disputed that....

If you have enough time in your day and expertise to teach other moms about infant nutrition, then go find the mom in your town who is putting Kool-Aid/Mountain Dew/Coke/etc. in her baby's bottle and preach it to her. By the time our kids are school-age, you can't tell who was breastfed vs. who was formula-fed, but you can often tell those kids who have never had any proper nutrition at all (and formula-fed babies do NOT fall into that category).
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:19 PM   #57
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

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I watched a Mom in Tennessee put Mountain Dew into her baby's bottle. The bottle looked like it was 20 years old. I was shocked. I'm still shocked by that. I can't for the life of me understand why you'd give soda in a baby bottle. The mom shook it to try to get some of the bubbles out first. Like it was the bubbles that would hurt the baby.
I remember watching in horror as one of DH's cousins poured enough of her large coffee into her ~1year old's bottle that it was half coffee and half milk (or formula or whatever was in there - didn't ask, didn't care). And it was very obvious that this was NOT the first time she had done that, the child was gesturing at her coffee.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #58
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

Also remember when you are judging strangers...you have no idea the back story. Many would have judged the daylights out of DS eating cheetos at 6 months old. And you know what? We were doing it at the direction of his medical team as a part of his feeding therapy. We also gave him lolly pops and diet coke. We let him have anything he would put in his mouth.

Every family is different, and all circumstances are different. Maybe the baby has a bottle of Mt. Dew because there was nothing else in the car to drink and kiddo was thirsty. Not every moment is a shining mommy moment, even for the best of us.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:33 PM   #59
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The only time I was ever "concerned" about someone formula feeding was when I read on another parenting forum that someone was going to save money on formula by making their own from non-dairy coffee creamer and crushed prenatal vitamins. Seemed like a dangerous thing to do to a helpless baby to me, but now that I think about it, it had to be a troll posting!
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:41 PM   #60
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Re: s/o Why are we so concerned about fomula feeders

Wait. Is the proper way to share coffee with your toddle to use a bottle? All this time I've been making him drink it out of a mug! Off to buy some bottles...
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