An alternative to store bought formula!

[JustSomeChickVee]

Originally Posted by Tresor27 Exactly, i have a toddler that requires attention as well, this sounds Very time consuming...no matter how much I wish i could do it, just not feasible for us either. I'm happy to say I did find a couple of places where i can find just pasteurized, non-homogenized, grass fed milk (1 being Natural by Nature, and the other one that Whole Foods has, Skytop Farms). And I cd order the kit from Radiant Life, and i already watched the video about making milk kefir...seems simple enough. I guess i just have to try and start making formula and just get into the swing of it and the timing. For example, with making the kefir - looks like i could just make a new batch overnight every time...? I also still have to figure out where to buy cream (Do you know what cream they are referring to in the WAPF recipe - i mean is it the same as Heavy Cream or Light cream that supermkts sell?) and the whey. I know that when you make the kefir if you leave it too long then it turns into curds and whey...but if i let it get to that point for the whey, then i don't have my kefir to culture the milk with. Actually that's something i need to ask you --just how much of the kefir do i put into the milk to culture it? Seems like you've been doing this a while, i guess you have it down pat now! I really appreciate your help with this...starting to feel much better for my little one already

For the kefir, over time your grains will multiply and eventually you won't have to make a new batch every night. but for now, i would just set up a new batch every night, especially since it only takes a minute or two. It's about a tbsp per cup. it doesn't need to be too exact.

Use heavy cream like what you would find at the supermarket.

as far as the whey, you can make that yourself too. Just get some whole milk yogurt, I use the whole milk yogurt by Stonyfield Organic. You can find it at most grocery stores. make sure there is no flavor. Get a large bowl and a cheesecloth. Put the cheesecloth over the bowl and pour the whole container into the cheesecloth. wrap the cheesecloth around the yogurt and tie it off. hang it off of a cabinet knob over the bowl. just leave it like that over night. in the morning, the liquid in the bowl is whey. the curds in the cheesecloth will actually be a cream cheese which you can add fruits to and use on bagels and breads. That whey will last a while since you only use 1/4 cup per batch..

if you go on the WAPF formula page, there is a video at the top. It shows the whole process for making homemade formula, but if you go to 5 minutes and 40 seconds, she shows you how to make the whey. here's the link http://www.westonaprice.org/children...e-baby-formula

[Tresor27]

Doesn't seem too bad, thanks. I did come across the video after i posted to you. However i also came across something that has me worried now about making formula...the WAPF formula has 5000ius of Vit A...and i believe the upper safe limit for toddlers is supposed to be 2000 iu - is there a way to modify the formula? ie, less cod liver or something? Aren't you concerned about Vit A and liver damage?


(I'm sorry to keep bugging you, i feel like i should be paying you as a consultant, lol!)

[JustSomeChickVee]

Originally Posted by Tresor27 Doesn't seem too bad, thanks. I did come across the video after i posted to you. However i also came across something that has me worried now about making formula...the WAPF formula has 5000ius of Vit A...and i believe the upper safe limit for toddlers is supposed to be 2000 iu - is there a way to modify the formula? ie, less cod liver or something? Aren't you concerned about Vit A and liver damage? (I'm sorry to keep bugging you, i feel like i should be paying you as a consultant, lol!)

Here are the FDA's nutritional requirements for infant formula. see section 412(i) http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-...IV-sec350a.pdf


The max dose for vitamin A is 750 IU per 100 calories. The WAPF formula for cow's milk contains approximately 856 calories, so the vitamin A level should be within 2140 IUs and 6420 IUs daily intake. However, I didn't notice any specifications for particular types of vitamin A. Preformed vitamin A, such as the type found in dairy products (which is the main source of vitamin A in this formula to my understanding,) can accumulate in fatty tissues such as the liver and be associated with toxicity at high doses. The max daily dose of preformed vitamin A for infants birth to 12 months, according to the National Institutes of Health is 2,000 IUs. Safe upper limits for preformed sources of vitamin A, such as beta carotene have not been established. Here is the link to that recommendation:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminA-QuickFacts/

My can of Parent's Choice Organic lists the same limits (and it also doesn't list whey in the ingredients, how did I not notice the change?!)

here is a photo of the FDA requirements on my can:


^ notice that it says that the FDA requirements for vitamin A are between 250 and 750 IUs per 100 calories and that PC Organic contains 300 IUs per 100 calories (5 oz of formula.)


^Here is the ingredient list on the can of PC Organic (no more whey!) I noticed that the ingredient list lists two types of vitamin A: Vitamin A Palmitate (preformed) and beta-carotene (a precursor, not preformed vitamin A.) I am not sure at what ratio these are used, but vitamin A precursors do not cause Vitamin A toxicity to our knowledge, while preformed vitamin A can lead to toxicity. The majority of the vitamin A in PC organic does come from these added nutrients and not the nonfat milk. Skimmed and nonfat milks contain very little vitamin A because the Vitamin A is fat soluble. So, even if the vitamin A was all preformed vitamin A, which it isn't, PC Organic would still meet the NIH criteria of 2,000 IUs max for the average baby. I think the average baby drinks about 30 oz of formula per day.

almost all of the vitamin A in the homemade formula comes from preformed sources. the sunflower oil does contain vitamin a as beta carotene, and so does the olive oil, coconut oil and acerola powder. However, these ingredients are used in much smaller amounts than the dairy and animal products which contain the preformed Vitamin A. Even if half of the vitamin A in the homemade formula comes from preformed vitamin A, that's 500 IUs too many... and my gut tells me that the preformed vitamin A content in the homemade formula is far more than 50%... Since I do not know exactly how much of the 5,000 IU in the homemade formula comes from preformed sources of Vitamin A, I am going to have to retract my previous recommendation of homemade formula.


I am so sorry.

[JustSomeChickVee]

I just read this...

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/119/.../1820.full.pdf

vitamin A toxicity was reported typically between 2,000 IUs and 9,000 IUs per 100 calories, however there was a case of a 3 year old child who developed toxicity at an average daily dose of 6,000-9000 IUs...

I absolutely 100% retract my previous recommendations. now i feel like a crap parent too

[Tresor27]

Thank you for clarifying about the different types (preformed vs not) of Vit A. Always an education from you. Yr attachment w/the FDAs nutr. requirements, i could not find the section you referred to but i did find the table easily enough, and btw they say per 100 kilocalories, so that's 1,000 calories. If i had had my coffee already and baby wasn't making so much noise under her mobile i Might be able to figure out whether that affects yr calculations at all. I mean i got the impression from the WAPF that they feel reports of Vit A toxicity are exaggerated and esp, from nonsynthetic sources they are a lot less toxic: http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-live...basics#clarify

"While some forms of synthetic vitamin A found in supplements can be toxic at only moderately high doses, fat-soluble vitamin A naturally found in foods like cod liver oil, liver, and butterfat is safe at up to ten times the doses of water-soluble, solidified and emulsified vitamin A found in some supplements that produce toxicity."

Here's some more of their thoughts on Vit A: http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-solu...vitamin-a-saga

Well I'm not a scientist and my husband basically shot down the whole idea of making my own once i mentioned i wasn't sure about the Vit A safety levels, even if we found that WAPF is correct, or there were some way to tweak it. So i'm out of the game, guess i'm going to go with Earth's Best and see how she likes it...as much as i hate to have to go that route.

No need to apologize Veronica, you were only trying to help another mom! And you are absolutely NOT a crap parent. You, and everyone else on this forum and other places who bother to take the time to study the ingredients as we have been doing and looking for safer alternatives are the BEST moms and i think our children are lucky to have us, even if good intentions sometimes go awry. We're not content to sit back and feed them the crap industry has seen fit to offer, without at least questioning and looking for alternatives.

[s@hmommy]

Originally Posted by JustSomeChickVee I just read this... http://jn.nutrition.org/content/119/.../1820.full.pdf vitamin A toxicity was reported typically between 2,000 IUs and 9,000 IUs per 100 calories, however there was a case of a 3 year old child who developed toxicity at an average daily dose of 6,000-9000 IUs... I absolutely 100% retract my previous recommendations. now i feel like a crap parent too

Don't feel bad! We are all doing the best we know to do and learning from it as well!

[JustSomeChickVee]

Originally Posted by Tresor27 Thank you for clarifying about the different types (preformed vs not) of Vit A. Always an education from you. Yr attachment w/the FDAs nutr. requirements, i could not find the section you referred to but i did find the table easily enough, and btw they say per 100 kilocalories, so that's 1,000 calories. If i had had my coffee already and baby wasn't making so much noise under her mobile i Might be able to figure out whether that affects yr calculations at all. I mean i got the impression from the WAPF that they feel reports of Vit A toxicity are exaggerated and esp, from nonsynthetic sources they are a lot less toxic: http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-live...basics#clarify "While some forms of synthetic vitamin A found in supplements can be toxic at only moderately high doses, fat-soluble vitamin A naturally found in foods like cod liver oil, liver, and butterfat is safe at up to ten times the doses of water-soluble, solidified and emulsified vitamin A found in some supplements that produce toxicity." Here's some more of their thoughts on Vit A: http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-solu...vitamin-a-saga Well I'm not a scientist and my husband basically shot down the whole idea of making my own once i mentioned i wasn't sure about the Vit A safety levels, even if we found that WAPF is correct, or there were some way to tweak it. So i'm out of the game, guess i'm going to go with Earth's Best and see how she likes it...as much as i hate to have to go that route. No need to apologize Veronica, you were only trying to help another mom! And you are absolutely NOT a crap parent. You, and everyone else on this forum and other places who bother to take the time to study the ingredients as we have been doing and looking for safer alternatives are the BEST moms and i think our children are lucky to have us, even if good intentions sometimes go awry. We're not content to sit back and feed them the crap industry has seen fit to offer, without at least questioning and looking for alternatives.

In regards to the kilocalories, on my PC can in the chart with the FDA requirements it lists nutrient measurements per 100 calories, not kcals. It says 300 IU per 100 calories there and in the nutrient facts. According to this source "It's easy to get confused about calories and kilocalories since, in a nutrition context, values are actually given for the number of kilocalories in a food, but referred to simply as calories." http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/calories.htm

My calculations would remain the same in this case.

A friend in an FB group I am in pointed me to the WAPF articles you linked to when I brought up this issue there. I can definitely see the difference as far as synthetic vs naturally occurring Vitamin A is concerned. I didn't want to say anything yet because I'm still sort of confused. That same friend sent me a few references regarding this subject, but I haven't had a chance to read through them yet. I'll copy and paste the info she sent me into this post.

This was her message to me

"Skip to the sections on toxicity if that is what you are specifically interested in--but keep in mind the studies (besides the one on polar bear/sled dog livers which are millions of IUs of Vit A) were done using synthetic vitamins, which are usually bad (this can be seen with others)
http://www.merckmanuals.com/professi...vitamin_a.html
"Although hypervitaminosis A can be due to excessive dietary intakes, the condition is usually a result of consuming too much preformed vitamin A from supplements or therapeutic retinoids" - http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/
(This is a great website to look up nutritional information in general, I use it often!) http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?dbid=106&tname=nutrient
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinol....28toxicity.29
Note in one of them it shows beta carotene is converted at a rate of about 21:1. The govt has also recently upped the required amount of Vit D and recommend testing in many children (it will likely soon be routine), as they learn more they up vitamins more and clarify toxity risk from different sources. Problem is many of their studies are "lab created."
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...y-concern.html
I do avoid Vit A in supplements (usually listed as palmitate) because toxicity from it is much lower than from foods (including the skin creams). Most regular cod liver oils have vitamins removed during processing and have synthetic vitamins added back in, btw.
Fat soluble vitamin deficiency (not just A) along with the Bs and minerals are generally the cause for infertility, miscarriages, birth defects like downs syndrome, spina bifida, tongue ties/lip ties, etc. I was actually pretty sad to learn this (my son has tongue and lip ties, as do I--mine are less severe but had I known before getting pregnant I would've worked on these things). I find it very sad and sometimes feel bad passing on this information after the fact. But that is generally why subsequent children AND having children in older ages presents more risk, each child depletes our nutritional stores more, and of course some of us don't have much reserves to begin with."



Thanks for the uplifting comments =) I totally agree with you!

[JustSomeChickVee]

so far reading through the links, most animal foods don't have enough preformed vitamin A to cause toxicity. so far i'm finding the third link she gave me super helpful because it actually lists preformed vitamin A content of different foods.

[Tresor27]

I didn't receive an email notification that you had posted (?) before i emailed you.... But i'm glad you're able to look into this further. Perhaps you'll be vindicated in the end. True the part about having children as one is older has it's negatives...but, i like to think that they'll have the benefit of super-smart, super-experienced people! : )

Anyway, when all is said and done, this is the end of the line for me in regards to making my own formula. (Just as i had already sourced low-pasteurized unhomogenized grassfed milk and was about to order the kit from Radiant Life). Only because there's going to be no convincing my husband now that he got the inkling from me that i wasn't 100% the Vit A levels were safe...and he Really doesn't want me spending anymore time on this...and he's right. But hopefully everyone else who is, or was, going to make their own formula, hasn't been dissuaded or at least, they feel comfortable enough to proceed once they've done their own research. And you are a tremendous resource! Btw, are you a scientist or nutrionist? Only because you seem well-versed in a lot of things that most people would not be.

[jcook111]

My pediatrician thinks one of my twins has a milk allergy, so I did some research on my own and found that many people with lactose intolerance can actually digest RAW milk. I DID NOT want to feed my baby store bought soy formula, as the first ingrediant is CORN SYRUP! I will post another message below this with the link to homemade baby formula, as well as the recipe. I've been making if for a week now, and it is SO easy! It takes me 15 min to make 70 ounces (enough for 3 days for my twins). AND they gobble it up!!