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Old 06-30-2014, 06:12 PM   #1921
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

It is completely wrong to justify neonatal circumcision based on what might happen 80 years later when and if a man becomes bedridden. If your patients are suffering repeated yeast infections, I have to question what type of care you are giving them. How can I trust that your report is even true? Or do they have complicating factors, like untreated diabetes? What about your female patients? If they get a yeast infection, how do I you treat them? Don't you have to clean in between their labia? Why not cut those off? Does the fact that you are culturally comfortable with circumcision mean that your male patients would be better off being circumcised than getting the same treatments given to female patients? At least they got to enjoy their entire penises their whole lives. What about male patients in countries where circumcision is rare? Why do those nurses not report constant problems with their elderly male patients? What other problems do the bedridden have that we should attempt to prevent in infancy? Are you getting a mastectomy, since your lifetime chance of getting breast cancer, which can KILL you, is over 1 in 8? If your elderly male patient who supposedly suffers repeated infections is mentally competent, then you would have to have his consent to have him circumcised. Why does the child deserve any less, especially since he doesn't even have any problems yet, and likely will never?

In short, why does your whole post reek of ex post facto justifications for unnecessary surgery on newborn males, when the entire rest of the non-circumcision world doesn't have any of the same terrible experiences with men in long term care?

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Old 06-30-2014, 06:14 PM   #1922
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I can agree that those things can definitely cause the same kind of infections, and I don't believe that a circumcision is solely to blame for these types of infections. I work in long term care, and the uncircumcised can be more difficult to properly clean at that stage in life. Like I said, I am not pro nor against. Just stating my experiences over the years.

You are obviously pro circumcision. And now you are backing down from all these terrible infections that the foreskin causes, to "it's harder to clean when you're old." Yeah, well, old women have to be cleaned, too, and the obese have all sorts of folds to clean, some patients are a four-person lift, but that's your freaking job as a nurse, so don't expect people to remove parts of their anatomy to suit your biases and misconceptions.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:56 AM   #1923
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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You are obviously pro circumcision. And now you are backing down from all these terrible infections that the foreskin causes, to "it's harder to clean when you're old." Yeah, well, old women have to be cleaned, too, and the obese have all sorts of folds to clean, some patients are a four-person lift, but that's your freaking job as a nurse, so don't expect people to remove parts of their anatomy to suit your biases and misconceptions.
With all due respect, I have no biases; I do not care one way or another, and I am in no way judging you for your choice to or not to circumcise. I was only sharing my experiences from what I have seen throughout my years as a nurse in 4 different facilities, one of those being a military hospital, 1 a rehab center and 2 being long term care. 3 of the 4 were top rated facilities that received regular 4 and 5 star ratings. The one that didn't receive those ratings I worked at for less than 4 months because I the level of care they provided was inadequate to those patients. I personally do not care one way or another if a person chooses to circumcise. And yes, males and females carry these infections, both young and old; I never thought we should "remove ones anatomy" for this purpose. I only said that I have seen a lot of infections of this type. It's amazing how critical and judgmental we all are here about whether or not "a penis is left intact". While I am not trying in any way to minimize the pain or altercations circumcision can cause, I feel like we should be respectful of one another in our speech. Our children are more likely to grow up and speak to and treat others the way they have seen us act, then to grow up resenting us because they either have or have not been circumcised. There are plenty of healthy adult males (including elderly) that have been circumcised, and plenty that haven't. Why do we live in a country that feels it is wrong to tear down and make fun of people who are mentally or physically handicapped, lesbian/gay/bi-sexual, people of different color or ethnicity, and yet it is still right to tear someone to pieces just because you *THINK* someone differs in opinion from yours?
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:56 PM   #1924
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Statements like yours about foreskins in long term care are always used to justify circumcision of males, but curiously, no one ever volunteers such statements about females, unless challenged like I did to you. That is why I have to respond so vehemently. There are many adult men who are angry they are circumcised, but unlike adult men who would prefer to be circumcised but arent, they have no recourse to change their parents' decision for them.

And don't be disingenuous - what was your purpose in commenting like that on such a thread called "top ten reasons not to circumcise" unless you were trying to provide support for circumcision?
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:34 PM   #1925
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

If there is anyone from this forum that can help me learn more about anti-circumcision, please pm me. I have only just begun researching this recently and if you are able to offer me good, solid medical evidence (not only statements from anti-circ boards and individuals-even pro life and pro choice people and boards can back their reasoning with their own facts. I am looking for non-biased information.) I would love to be led to your sources. I want to learn and make an informed decision about this, so please know that I may ask questions or provide sources counter to what you say, and I would like for someone who is willing to listen to my questions/objections and help me and educate me without tearing me down.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:24 AM   #1926
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

What I will tell you is that when I started my journey over ten years ago from not thinking at all about circumcision to being against circumcision, I could not understand at the beginning that it is not about the pros and cons of various medical reasons. At first it seemed like that was the way to think about it, but really, the issue is that we are talking about cutting off healthy, functional tissue from an unconsenting person for reasons which supposed benefits can all be had without cutting, and we are only talking about this at all because some weird, anti-sex Victorians thought that masturbation literally would make little boys blind, deformed and mentally ill, but after a while we came to think about it as normal and forgot the original intentions.

It's a very strange concept - I started thinking, of course boys are circumcised, it's normal. Then I got bogged down in relative rates of neonatal UTIs, or STDs, and I stayed there awhile. And then one night in the middle of the night, I realized, he would be born with a foreskin, and surely god and evolution would not make such a huge mistake with the organ necessary to continue the species. Then my whole viewpoint shifted, and such medical or health questions became a moot point. Does a foreskin cause UTIs? No, that one study was flawed, and even if it did, why could boys not get the same antibiotics as girls? Does a foreskin lead to more STDs? No, those studies are also flawed and contradictory, and anyway, would I tell my kids, "Go ahead and have lots of unprotected sex - your circumcision will protect you!" Of course not - so if they are going to have to practice safe sex anyway, and the foreskin has sexual functionality, doesn't the choice to cut it off for such a weak proposed benefit lie with them?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that trying to see this as a pro/con issue is still not seeing it in the correct frame. Boys will be born with foreskins, and so anyone who proposes to cut them off has to have solid reasons based on truth and not urban myths, that provides benefits cannot be had any other, less invasive way. Anything short of that, and you are not providing these boys with the same respect and rights that any other human being has.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:27 AM   #1927
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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What I will tell you is that when I started my journey over ten years ago from not thinking at all about circumcision to being against circumcision, I could not understand at the beginning that it is not about the pros and cons of various medical reasons. At first it seemed like that was the way to think about it, but really, the issue is that we are talking about cutting off healthy, functional tissue from an unconsenting person for reasons which supposed benefits can all be had without cutting, and we are only talking about this at all because some weird, anti-sex Victorians thought that masturbation literally would make little boys blind, deformed and mentally ill, but after a while we came to think about it as normal and forgot the original intentions.



It's a very strange concept - I started thinking, of course boys are circumcised, it's normal. Then I got bogged down in relative rates of neonatal UTIs, or STDs, and I stayed there awhile. And then one night in the middle of the night, I realized, he would be born with a foreskin, and surely god and evolution would not make such a huge mistake with the organ necessary to continue the species. Then my whole viewpoint shifted, and such medical or health questions became a moot point. Does a foreskin cause UTIs? No, that one study was flawed, and even if it did, why could boys not get the same antibiotics as girls? Does a foreskin lead to more STDs? No, those studies are also flawed and contradictory, and anyway, would I tell my kids, "Go ahead and have lots of unprotected sex - your circumcision will protect you!" Of course not - so if they are going to have to practice safe sex anyway, and the foreskin has sexual functionality, doesn't the choice to cut it off for such a weak proposed benefit lie with them?



Basically, what I'm trying to say is that trying to see this as a pro/con issue is still not seeing it in the correct frame. Boys will be born with foreskins, and so anyone who proposes to cut them off has to have solid reasons based on truth and not urban myths, that provides benefits cannot be had any other, less invasive way. Anything short of that, and you are not providing these boys with the same respect and rights that any other human being has.
Agreed!!





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Old 07-15-2014, 07:57 PM   #1928
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Basically, what I'm trying to say is that trying to see this as a pro/con issue is still not seeing it in the correct frame. Boys will be born with foreskins, and so anyone who proposes to cut them off has to have solid reasons based on truth and not urban myths, that provides benefits cannot be had any other, less invasive way. Anything short of that, and you are not providing these boys with the same respect and rights that any other human being has.
This is the conclusion I came to as well: after wondering whether the evidence that circumcision reduced the risk of infections was valid or not, I realized it didn't matter. Removing other body parts at birth could totally prevent (not just reduce!) the risk of developing problems with those body parts, but we don't remove any other body parts because of the possibility that something *might* happen at some point in the future.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:41 PM   #1929
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

I've spent the last few days reading every single page of this thread. It is threads like this that helped me follow my gut when we FINALLY found out we were having a boy. My gut said that the foreskin was there for a REASON. I am so, SO happy to be raising a beautiful intact baby boy and his three older sisters. THANK YOU for this info!
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:36 AM   #1930
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I've spent the last few days reading every single page of this thread. It is threads like this that helped me follow my gut when we FINALLY found out we were having a boy. My gut said that the foreskin was there for a REASON. I am so, SO happy to be raising a beautiful intact baby boy and his three older sisters. THANK YOU for this info!
That's awesome!
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