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Old 09-16-2006, 05:31 PM   #11
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

I Looked everywhere I could think of and found NO way around the hospital doing it. They said it was a law and that they'd take the baby if I refused. I couldn't believe that was true but found nobody who knew how to stop it. What we DID do was request that I hold the baby for eye drops (some DO use silver nitrate! It BURNS! make them use the e-myacin) and I got to "help" give the ye drops (and missed as much as possible and then quickly wiped it off). But they did the vit K shot. I am SOOOO happy to be having this new baby at home- NO vit K and NO eye drops

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Old 09-16-2006, 05:45 PM   #12
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

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Originally Posted by geckoed
I Looked everywhere I could think of and found NO way around the hospital doing it. They said it was a law and that they'd take the baby if I refused. I couldn't believe that was true but found nobody who knew how to stop it. What we DID do was request that I hold the baby for eye drops (some DO use silver nitrate! It BURNS! make them use the e-myacin) and I got to "help" give the ye drops (and missed as much as possible and then quickly wiped it off). But they did the vit K shot. I am SOOOO happy to be having this new baby at home- NO vit K and NO eye drops
I feel so bad for you, you can legally refuse ANY medical treatment for your child on religious grounds (always use the religion card) and it is unconstitutional for you to be prosecuted for not doing it. as it is, in most states the eye goop is only a reccomendation not law.

NEVER EVER EVER TAKE A NURSE OR DR AT THEIR WORD when it comes to law and vaxes etc. You can refuse ANYTHING even the hep b vax if your hep b postive (that one is a little more tricky).

I highly reccomend all of you mamas wanting to refuse them or want to know more info, to check out the vaccination board on mothering.com
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:34 PM   #13
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

Well it depends what state you are in. NY state does not allow you to wave anything, and I have yet to find a way around it. But here in TX I could wave anything I wanted. They were very good about it too. No one ever fought us about anything. We did eventually decide to do the Vit K shot. I am not happy that we did, but I couldn't get comfortable not doing it either. Hemorophagic disease is very rare in nb's, but it can happen. But at the same time I am a firm believer in the idea that humans would not have evolved to need a shot at birth to survive kwim? But then as dh and I had discussed there is a possibility that the medicalization of birth leads to these problems. If we had had a UC as I had originally intended, we wouldn't have had the shot. But I wound up delivering in a hospital, and Tharen's cord was cut before I would have liked because I was hemoraging. So I may have been missing that important factor to pass on to him, or he may not have gotten enough because his cord was cut prematurely (I had intended to wait until after the placenta delivered so he got all of his cord blood). Vit K has been linked to pathalogical jaundice (the kind that is dangerous and required bili lights, not the kind that most babies get and then goes away) and one study has linked it with childhood leukemia. That study was later put into question, but no study has ever been done to truly prove or disprove it, so it is still out there. I know if Tharen were to develop leukemia, I would probably feel very guilty for giving him that shot, but my fear of losing another baby won out over my better judgement, and I gave it to him anyway. Other than that, I did not allow any heal sticks (our hospital has a new thing that can check bili levels from a babies forehead like a thermometer ) and he is intact. Tx law requires a Dr to administer the eye goop, but does not require a parent to allow it . So I didn't need any papers to refuse it. I just said no and they didn't do it. I also kept him in my room the entire time. I waved the nb bath and time under a warming table. They didn't even freak when I co-slept with him. I did have it all in writing when I came in, but everyone was very good about it. So it really does just depend on where you are.

ETA: I totally forgot to add that taking alfalfa supplements in the last few months of pregnancy is supposed to boost your vitK levels. It is supposed to help prevent hemorage in the mother and pass it along to the baby. Also eating lots of dark leafy greens like spinach, kale, and sea weed is a good way to boost your vit K. I think there was something else too that some midwives recomend to protect mom and baby, but I can't remember what. Check out the pregnancy board at mothering.com and ask around.
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Old 09-17-2006, 02:20 PM   #14
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

i refused both the vit k and eye goop in the hospital. if they say its law, ask to see it in writing before you agree. My biggest advice is have an advocate there for you! I drilled DH on what was not to be done to ds incase i wasnt with it enough to demand it myself. i had a birth plan and made sure it was in my chart. The nurses OK'd everything with me.
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:01 PM   #15
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

I allowed the eye goop, tho I did ask that it be delayed until she went down for her first nap after BFing. And I allowed the Vit K. too, because I really couldn't find more negatives than positives for that one. I refused the Hep B for her, just said I'd have my ped do it at her first appointment, then didn't.

If I have another it will be a scheduled C/S so I'll be refusing eye goop. I know I'm clean, knew I was when I had Isabel, just figured I never made the trip down the vagina with my eyes open, so who was I to say a little eye goop wouldn't be a good preventative plan I ended up with a C/S so it wasn't really necessary, IMO, but after 22 hours of labor and a C/S, I wasn't really worried about that - I just wanted Isabel and I wanted some stinkin' food!
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:38 PM   #16
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

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if they say its law, ask to see it in writing before you agree
or better yet, search for your states law, and take a copy in to the hospital with you, along with the exemption section....and if they try to drill you on it, just say you are refusing it on relgious grounds....
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Old 09-17-2006, 07:56 PM   #17
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

I appreciate all the info here ladies! I am still undecided as to what we will do when the time arrives. I don't know if either are necessary for us or not. But we have PLENTY of time to research it and talk and pray about it.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:11 PM   #18
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

Vit K is a clotting factor - if you have a diffucult delivery, it is really recommended. If you have a boy that you plan on circumsizing, it is absolutely necessary. But, for a normal delivery - it is not necessary. Instead allow the cord to stop pulstating BEFORE cutting it - this ensures that all the "extra" blood in teh cord and placenta actually get into the baby. That more than Vit K, makes a big difference.

Silver nitrate should NOT be used. Now it is antibiotic ointment. This is used to "prevent blindness" what they don't bother to tell you is that it is a infection caused by gonorrhea that causes the blindness. Teh baby is exposed to the gonorrhea as he/she passes thru the birth canal. No gonorrhea = no chance of infection causing blindness. Sure other vaginal infections will cause eye infections - but I think your OB or MW has tested you for most of them and is skilled enough to tell if you have any yeast infection, etc. Now, keep in mind this is so standard of a procedure it is even done to CSection infants, who have never entered the birth canal and therefore have NO chance of getting gonorrhea infections in their eyes.

That said - both can be refused. Tell your MW or OB ahead of time that you are refusing it - and after the baby is born you send yoru DH or DP over there and make him stand next to the baby during any exam, etc. My DH caught the nurse as she was about to give DS teh eye drops - after we told her twice already he was not getting them. Ask ahead of time to sign the waiver. If the baby has to leave your room for any reason (like ped rounds in teh morning) send someone to be with the baby. It will annoy the nurses in teh nursery - but by law you are allowed to be in there. So don't let them throw you out. And don't let them scare you into getting anything, cuz they will try to do it. "Your baby could die if he/she doesn't get the Vit K, you don't want your baby to end up blind do you?" I point blank told the one nurse "He won't end up blind, I don't have gonorrhea." "Oh but you don't know that" "Yes, I do - I have the test results to prove it too" SHe didn't know what to say to that one. Idiot. It is a standard prenatal test!

Find your state exemption forms (check over at mothering.com) and get them in order and bring them with you to the hospital. It will back you up in both the vit K/eye ointment and the HepB vax that is usually given at birth.

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Old 09-18-2006, 01:43 PM   #19
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Re: Non-vaxing mamas: NB in hospital question

Once making the decision(s) of what you want and don't want for your birth, I suggest writting out a birth plan. There are somethings you may feel very strongly about but due to the nature of the birth (hemmoraging, trama, etc.) you might not be able to do what you had planned.

As far as the vaccines and other medical 'interventions' they offer your baby, I would defintely have it written on some sort of exemption form. I say this because I did have a written birth plan and the hospital was pretty respectful of my wishes/decisions. However, after giving birth I was so exhausted I didn't really remember that I didn't want the eye ointment and I was told something on the lines that it helps your baby see better. So I agreed. I'm upset about that but it's all said and done. The thing that makes me most upset though is I did not want the Hep B shot and had it written on my birth plan. I assumed that DD never did get it b/c they never asked me nor did I see them administer it. On my discharge papers it indicates that it was given. I'm not 100% sure that it was or wasn't. If I had a specifically written exemption form for the vaccines, if DD did receive it I could've filled a legal complaint.

Best wishes to you making all of your informed decisions and I'm for a healthy and happy delivery!
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