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Old 08-09-2010, 04:09 PM   #211
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

okay so this is where we are right now! I've been cd-ing for a month and dd has a quarter size rash that has never really gone away...sort of blistery and sandpapery feeling. It gets less red like it's healing sometimes but never goes completely away. Even in sposies with Triple Paste or Butt Paste. I've tried using Burts Bees in her cloth dipes and I've tried putting nothing on it. We use Purex F&C hypoallergenic on the dipes and our family wash, and we wash dd's clothes in Dreft. I haven't had any smell, my dipes come out smelling clean and like nothing, but clean. We use FuzziBunz only.

My wash routine is this. I don't rinse, just throw them in a hanging wet bag, we exclusively breastfeed so I don't rinse the poopies either. I do a load of dipes every other day. We have a seriously crazy water heater and our water is hot even with it turned down low so I do a 20 min warm/cold soak with half the scoop of OxyClean (it agitates for a bit of that time), then a warm/cold regular wash with the Purex (a little less than recomended but not much) then a low heat dryer for about an hour.

I once rinsed again and didn't see any significant suds but just a little...should I rinse again always after my wash? My dipes are clean, just wondering if it's the detergent or detergent not coming out fully? Or maybe the rash isn't related at all since she still has it even in sposies? I've heard that you can make a baking soda paste or bath for red bottoms? Anyone try that? Or Aquaphor mixed with Mylanta? Any natural tips like that people can share?

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Old 08-09-2010, 05:21 PM   #212
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Originally Posted by Alioop View Post
Yep, not working.

Sorry.

And, that stuff about "getting all the old stuff out" is baloney. Sorry.

When you use a commercial detergent, or a soap based detergent, you can get some buildup. And, the WAHM detergents, which are mostly water conditioners....will help to strip your diapers of that buildup. But, that buildup is just oil, whiteners, enzymes, dyes, fabric softeners, things like that. You won't start getting new things in there that were not there before. The reason WAHM detergents help to strip the detergent buildup from your diapers is that they soften the water, and then you rinse it alot. alot. A whole lot. If your WAHM detergent does not have any surfactant in it, you are in fact doing nothing BUT rinsing your diapers.

So, if your ammonia came after you switched to a WAHM detergent, then that means simply, your diapers stopped getting clean. You started getting bacterial buildup. Bacteria hangs out after the wash, waiting for pee, and when the pee hits, it gets converted to ammonia.

If you had rashes before the WAHM detergent, but no ammonia.....then, you probably had CLEAN diapers, but you may have had some irritating residue from the detergent.

To strip with Dawn, just a squirt. Like if you were doing dishes in the sink. Use some Oxy too.

Do you have hard or soft water????

In the mean time, let me look at your old detergent a bit and get back with you......

Just wash all your diapers with some Dawn and Oxy. HOT water washes and rinses. Dont worry about bubbles in the rinse.

(ps -- just so all the other WAHMS out there do not firebomb my house.....wahm detergent is not all bad....it is just not for everybody! )


ETA: Ok, Purex Free and Clear has Sodium laureth sulfate.....which can cause sensitivity issues (does for me!) so, your baby might just be sensitive to it. You could try just another detergent on the list, and see if it works better for you. Brighteners are not necessarily bad, unless they bother you. Just go for one on the list that gets more green. (country save is available locally for me, and I am in the least green city ever)

Also, you may need to use less of it, if you are getting residue. Try 1/2 what you were using before.
Also, try adding washing soda with the detergent. (assuming you have hard or normal water, not soft)
Awesome you rock!!
Also, I guess we have regular water...never had any issues with it one way or the other :shrug:
I'll do the strip and keep looking for something local
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:56 PM   #213
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Originally Posted by walking-iris View Post
okay so this is where we are right now! I've been cd-ing for a month and dd has a quarter size rash that has never really gone away...sort of blistery and sandpapery feeling. It gets less red like it's healing sometimes but never goes completely away.
Sounds maybe like a bit of eczema. We have pretty bad eczema here, me mainly, but DS will get a similar dime to quarter size little spot like what you are describing on his little butt cheek. I just put a little Aveeno, fragrance free, let it air out for a bit and then put a dipe on. I have just recently found a new Aveeno lotion that is soothing my eczema, it is called Aveeno Baby Eczema therapy, found it at Walmart and Target. HTH. Hopefully it is not a detergent issue.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:33 AM   #214
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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...Water softeners are kinda out of favor because they add sodium to your water, which is bad for blood pressure....(unless you have a different kind of softener, but we wont go into that) and I think most parts of the country have naturally harder water. Hard water tastes better, and is a little better for your body too, so it is not discouraged by local water boards. It coats your pipes, which is annoying for your plumber, but better for you as it stops your pipes from leaching metals into your water.
Do you know much about water softeners? We have a whole house water softener and I've been wondering about this since we got it. Water treatment companies all say that there is no salt added to the water with a softener and dh's explanation of how it works makes sense that it wouldn't add any salt to the water. But yet a lot of stuff on the net says that it does add salt, even that it actually 'replaces' the minerals with salt. Which really doesn't make sense to me considering how our system works. It works by running the water through a resin that filters out the minerals. The salt only comes in when the resin is saturated with minerals and is used to flush them out of the resin. This salty water is then flushed down our basement drain. In theory there shouldn't be any salt in the water itself, except maybe the very small trace of any residue left in the resin (which would only really be possible if they didn't 'rinse' the resin with clearwater after the salt flush, which I'm thinking doesn't make sense, it would be so easy to do...). Of course as our previous conversation went, you can't believe everything your read on the net... And of course many sites (including the Mayo clinich) say that the amount of salt added is minimal and has no real effect on health...

Who to believe? Unless there are two types of salt based water softeners I'm really confused. Especially that once I could swear the water tasted ever so slightly salty (although granted that was only once in the year since we've had it). Dh and I have theorized that perhaps I was the first to use any water immediatly after a salt flushing (and I got the water that still perhaps had the tiny residue, it that's even possible) but considering that's supposed to happen in the middle of the night we don't understand how it could have happened.

I will never get rid of the softener, I like it too much for that. It doesn't just prevent damage on the pipes, it can also severely stain your toilets, sinks and showers and most importantly it can severely damage your washer and especially your dishwasher (to the point of completly ruining them within a couple of years, I have a friend who had two dishwashers wrecked by hard water within about 4-5 years). BUT if it is adding significant salt then I'd like to see about filtering it out somehow, at least for our drinking water.

Karen.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:36 AM   #215
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Originally Posted by KarenCmomto4 View Post
Do you know much about water softeners? We have a whole house water softener and I've been wondering about this since we got it. Water treatment companies all say that there is no salt added to the water with a softener and dh's explanation of how it works makes sense that it wouldn't add any salt to the water. But yet a lot of stuff on the net says that it does add salt, even that it actually 'replaces' the minerals with salt. Which really doesn't make sense to me considering how our system works. It works by running the water through a resin that filters out the minerals. The salt only comes in when the resin is saturated with minerals and is used to flush them out of the resin. This salty water is then flushed down our basement drain. In theory there shouldn't be any salt in the water itself, except maybe the very small trace of any residue left in the resin (which would only really be possible if they didn't 'rinse' the resin with clearwater after the salt flush, which I'm thinking doesn't make sense, it would be so easy to do...). Of course as our previous conversation went, you can't believe everything your read on the net... And of course many sites (including the Mayo clinich) say that the amount of salt added is minimal and has no real effect on health...

Who to believe? Unless there are two types of salt based water softeners I'm really confused. Especially that once I could swear the water tasted ever so slightly salty (although granted that was only once in the year since we've had it). Dh and I have theorized that perhaps I was the first to use any water immediatly after a salt flushing (and I got the water that still perhaps had the tiny residue, it that's even possible) but considering that's supposed to happen in the middle of the night we don't understand how it could have happened.

I will never get rid of the softener, I like it too much for that. It doesn't just prevent damage on the pipes, it can also severely stain your toilets, sinks and showers and most importantly it can severely damage your washer and especially your dishwasher (to the point of completly ruining them within a couple of years, I have a friend who had two dishwashers wrecked by hard water within about 4-5 years). BUT if it is adding significant salt then I'd like to see about filtering it out somehow, at least for our drinking water.

Karen.


I am not sure how our water softener works, but I know that just our hot water is softened, not the cold water. I thought it was always not a great idea to drink/water plants with softened water, however, I have no concrete proof to back this up. I know that it was a big deal in one of our houses that the cold water was softened & we had that changed. If the water is all the way on cold, we are not drinking any softened water.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:22 AM   #216
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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I am not sure how our water softener works, but I know that just our hot water is softened, not the cold water. I thought it was always not a great idea to drink/water plants with softened water, however, I have no concrete proof to back this up. I know that it was a big deal in one of our houses that the cold water was softened & we had that changed. If the water is all the way on cold, we are not drinking any softened water.
Hmmm, interesting. I've never heard of only softening the hot water, that's interesting. Would certainly address my biggest concern which was the damage done to my dishwasher. The pipes and clothes washer would still be a concern as we almost only wash in cold water (except for diapers) but I don't think those are as big a deal... I know we don't soften the water that goes to the hose outside as that would just be a waste but I'll have to talk to dh about that possibility. It would certainly help with my concern about drinking salt water.

As for health issues I really don't know. The info I've heard/read is really contradictory. And I've had trouble finding truly unbiased sources. The companies that sell sal****er softeners say that their systems don't leave salt in the water (and give a good explanation of how their systems work where that assertion would make sense) and the companies that sell alternative systems say that they do (and even go so far as to say that salt water systems actually replace the minerals with salt - which to me would indicate a potentially enormous salt load if someone had really hard water like we do).

I'm thinking of getting our water tested again and this time by the municipality which doesn't have a stake in selling us something. I hadn't realized when we initially did it that the company that tested our water also sold water softeners. I'd like to have an unbiased test on the hardness of our untreated water *and* the salt levels in our treated water. I may do that soon but figured I'd ask here as to what others experiences were.

Karen.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:23 AM   #217
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Originally Posted by KarenCmomto4 View Post
Do you know much about water softeners? We have a whole house water softener and I've been wondering about this since we got it. Water treatment companies all say that there is no salt added to the water with a softener and dh's explanation of how it works makes sense that it wouldn't add any salt to the water. But yet a lot of stuff on the net says that it does add salt, even that it actually 'replaces' the minerals with salt. Which really doesn't make sense to me considering how our system works. It works by running the water through a resin that filters out the minerals. The salt only comes in when the resin is saturated with minerals and is used to flush them out of the resin. This salty water is then flushed down our basement drain. In theory there shouldn't be any salt in the water itself, except maybe the very small trace of any residue left in the resin (which would only really be possible if they didn't 'rinse' the resin with clearwater after the salt flush, which I'm thinking doesn't make sense, it would be so easy to do...). Of course as our previous conversation went, you can't believe everything your read on the net... And of course many sites (including the Mayo clinich) say that the amount of salt added is minimal and has no real effect on health...

Who to believe? Unless there are two types of salt based water softeners I'm really confused. Especially that once I could swear the water tasted ever so slightly salty (although granted that was only once in the year since we've had it). Dh and I have theorized that perhaps I was the first to use any water immediatly after a salt flushing (and I got the water that still perhaps had the tiny residue, it that's even possible) but considering that's supposed to happen in the middle of the night we don't understand how it could have happened.

I will never get rid of the softener, I like it too much for that. It doesn't just prevent damage on the pipes, it can also severely stain your toilets, sinks and showers and most importantly it can severely damage your washer and especially your dishwasher (to the point of completly ruining them within a couple of years, I have a friend who had two dishwashers wrecked by hard water within about 4-5 years). BUT if it is adding significant salt then I'd like to see about filtering it out somehow, at least for our drinking water.

Karen.
I just wanted to reiterate the point that hard water can ruin household appliances, pipes, and fixtures that are way more expensive than our precious cloth dipes. After having our LO we totally forgot to refill the sodium stuff in our water softener and now the spray thingy on our kitchen sink is blocked from mineral deposits. I also think that is why we started having stink issues.
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:52 PM   #218
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

You can probably get the hard water info from your city, they have that info listed somewhere, if you are city folks. Of course, that is as provided to your house, not as it comes out of the tap. Once it runs through your pipes, it is subject to all sorts of contaminates....including lead from solder in old houses, and yep, sodium in water softeners.

The calcium and magnesium, which makes your water "hard" and also is good for you....and tastes good....is replaced in the water softener by sodium.

Here are some sources I think you can trust:
http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublicatio...25/eb1525.html
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthi.../aa082403a.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

So, yes, there is salt added and left in your water when you use a water softener. (that is added to the salt that may be already in your water)

Not a bunch, but if you are on a low sodium diet, it can be something to consider. And, it tastes yucky if you are super picky, like me.

There are fancier water softeners that do not use sodium, they use potassium instead.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:27 PM   #219
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Originally Posted by Alioop View Post
You can probably get the hard water info from your city, they have that info listed somewhere, if you are city folks. Of course, that is as provided to your house, not as it comes out of the tap. Once it runs through your pipes, it is subject to all sorts of contaminates....including lead from solder in old houses, and yep, sodium in water softeners.

The calcium and magnesium, which makes your water "hard" and also is good for you....and tastes good....is replaced in the water softener by sodium.

Here are some sources I think you can trust:
http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublicatio...25/eb1525.html
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthi.../aa082403a.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

So, yes, there is salt added and left in your water when you use a water softener. (that is added to the salt that may be already in your water)

Not a bunch, but if you are on a low sodium diet, it can be something to consider. And, it tastes yucky if you are super picky, like me.

There are fancier water softeners that do not use sodium, they use potassium instead.

Thanks but see the confusing part is that we were very clearly told that no salt was added to the water during the softening process. Salt was only used to essentially rinse the resin clean once it was saturated with minerals.

And we're on a well so the city can't help at all. It's a brand new house so I'm not worried about the pipes or anything and no one is on a low-sodium diet (yet anyway, who knows for the future) but I still don't like the idea of sodium in our water.

Karen.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:11 PM   #220
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

Wow. Just, wow. Great post. You are so kind to take so much time to help all these mommas. I only got half-way through but will read more when I have time!
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