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Old 12-17-2008, 04:16 PM   #91
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I have a question. Dh is circ'd and all that we have decided is that its a no unless they use anesthesia. We are not having a boy so it doesn't need to be decided atm. My question is for those whose dh is circ'd and you didn't circ your son. What will dh say when his son asks why his is different? Telling him that he's mutulated and the son is not seems really harsh. I don't feel dh is mutulated, his is perfect in my eyes (not looking for arguments here :P) His circ turned out fine but I know that there's a chance our son's won't so that's why I'm leaning more towards no. Thank you for the information you have posted and in advance for the answer to my question
Thanks to the momma that answered my other question in the other post
Even if they do a dorsal ring block, which is the best anesthesia they can do, it will not block the vagal nerves which are on the bottom and sides of the penis. The AAP knows this.

My ds1 noticed the difference between himself and daddy last year. He thought that daddy always kept his foreskin back. When he asked, I told him that when daddy was little, they thought it was good to cut off the foreskin, but now we know better. He was satisfied, and definitely not clamoring to have it cut off!

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Ok so both of my sons were circumsized and I was actually there to see my 2nd son's circumcision. I didn't know I was going to be in there the Dr. just walked in and started doing it. I did cry throughout the procedure to see my son suffer thru this. Although I know he wasn't entirely crying over the procedure because he started crying the min they strapped him down cuz he didn't like to be strapped. However I'm still not convinced that I wouldn't circumcise another son if I have more kids. But only because I have a very strong faith and I believe God wants us to do it. I don't want to argue I just want to understand and educate myself better on this topic. You mentioned that it says in the bible that Christians shouldn't be circumcised. Where in the bible does it say this?
Also I wanted to circumcise because of sanitary reasons. I had heard from family members who didn't get circumcised and since they are boys they don't always do that well of a job cleaning it and it got stuck and just really bad that he had to go to the hospital to help him out and it was pretty painful. And the last reason is because one of my uncle's wasn't circumcised and decided to do it as an adult but was told there are lots of risks on the procedure when done as an adult. He did it anyways and almost died because it was so severe since he was adult so that is why they say it's better to do w/newborns. I'm open to hear what you have to say but please don't attack.
Cleaning under the foreskin only starts once the foreskin retracts on its own. My son can easily pull it back when in the tub, swish it around, and put it forward. Easy! Phimosis is when it gets stuck behind the head, but it is very rare, and all you have to do is pinch the head a little and it will pop forward again. There are very few risks to having it done as an adult. Most men who have problems that "HAD" to be circumcised are b/c their moms were told to clean under the foreskin from birth, which causes scarring and infection. Also, circumcision is a quick surgery that makes a decent sum of money for the doctor. Most doctors, b/c of their age, are not intact, so they don't know anything about it.

Here's the Galatians quote: For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love. http://bible.cc/galatians/5-6.htm
1Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

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Why you shouldn't circumcise your son

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Old 12-17-2008, 04:18 PM   #92
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I have never heard a man say he was suffering b/c he doesn't have foreskin. Most don't even know they were born with skin there to begin with, until you tell them.

My dh wishes he was not as well, he is highly desensitized now as an adult.
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:23 PM   #93
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Even if they do a dorsal ring block, which is the best anesthesia they can do, it will not block the vagal nerves which are on the bottom and sides of the penis. The AAP knows this.

My ds1 noticed the difference between himself and daddy last year. He thought that daddy always kept his foreskin back. When he asked, I told him that when daddy was little, they thought it was good to cut off the foreskin, but now we know better. He was satisfied, and definitely not clamoring to have it cut off!



Cleaning under the foreskin only starts once the foreskin retracts on its own. My son can easily pull it back when in the tub, swish it around, and put it forward. Easy! Phimosis is when it gets stuck behind the head, but it is very rare, and all you have to do is pinch the head a little and it will pop forward again. There are very few risks to having it done as an adult. Most men who have problems that "HAD" to be circumcised are b/c their moms were told to clean under the foreskin from birth, which causes scarring and infection. Also, circumcision is a quick surgery that makes a decent sum of money for the doctor. Most doctors, b/c of their age, are not intact, so they don't know anything about it.

Here's the Galatians quote: For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love. http://bible.cc/galatians/5-6.htm
1Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Having a foreskin does not guarantee great sex! The man has to have some technique! LOL! But you are lucky you have never experienced sex with a circumcised man who pounds away like a jackhammer. Does he give you oral sex before you have sex? Most women need stimulation directly on their clitoris, rhythmically and for a long time, either with the man's fingers or tongue, to be able to orgasm. Orgasms are not supposed to happen just from the man putting his penis inside. There are sex books written for Christians that could help you. You deserve orgasms! I have had at least 2 every time we have made love!
I jsut wanted to say that you are seriously a book of knowledge when it comes to this subject. I could read what you post all day and feel like as much as I thought I knew, I am learning even more as this discussion goes on.

I too used to defend circ'ing to the hilt....because my dh was and my 2 older boys were, and it wasn't until i saw a circ being done on a newborn infant boy in the NICU when my DD was there for jaundice, that it hit me what I had subjected my baby sons too

Both my boys cried, the docs told me so but they were only brought back to me after they had stopped.

I personally make it a goal to tell people how I feel about it because I too feel it is a human rights issue, even thought I am a devout Christian. I feel if nothing else I owe it to my older boys to help others see the truth.
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:46 PM   #94
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I jsut wanted to say that you are seriously a book of knowledge when it comes to this subject. I could read what you post all day and feel like as much as I thought I knew, I am learning even more as this discussion goes on.

I too used to defend circ'ing to the hilt....because my dh was and my 2 older boys were, and it wasn't until i saw a circ being done on a newborn infant boy in the NICU when my DD was there for jaundice, that it hit me what I had subjected my baby sons too

Both my boys cried, the docs told me so but they were only brought back to me after they had stopped.

I personally make it a goal to tell people how I feel about it because I too feel it is a human rights issue, even thought I am a devout Christian. I feel if nothing else I owe it to my older boys to help others see the truth.
Thank you for the lovely compliment.

So, as a parent who defended circumcision to the hilt after having your first two boys circumcised, how did you come to terms with having to learn all these new facts and change your mind? I ask you to explain your internal process so that maybe others who have already circumcised their sons can see that it is possible to change your mind and move forward.

As for the Christian angle, part of the issue is that the new Testament is composed of books from various sources, and in the early days of Christianity, there were many sects who disagreed on many topics. Some thought they should carry on the Jewish tradition of circumcision, but Paul firmly states that circumcised/uncircumcised doesn't matter. What complicates the issue is that circumcision was often used in a metaphorical sense. Just as circumcision of the penis replaced human sacrifice for the Jews, Jesus's sacrifice replaced circumcision of the penis. The Bible speaks of "circumcising one's heart," which meant a paring of the spirit as a personal sacrifice to God. They obviously didn't mean to cut one's heart! In ancient times, the fact that the Jews circumcised themselves was really strange, as every other man in the world was not circumcised. It set the Jews apart and was definitely noticed by non-Jews, so to speak of circumcising one's heart was really committing to God. In Romans, they talk about how circumcision is fine, but it doesn't make up for bad things that you do. So there must have been people who said, "I am circumcised, so I am saved." Which is clearly not true! If it were only that easy!
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:01 PM   #95
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Cleaning under the foreskin only starts once the foreskin retracts on its own. My son can easily pull it back when in the tub, swish it around, and put it forward. Easy! Phimosis is when it gets stuck behind the head, but it is very rare, and all you have to do is pinch the head a little and it will pop forward again. There are very few risks to having it done as an adult. Most men who have problems that "HAD" to be circumcised are b/c their moms were told to clean under the foreskin from birth, which causes scarring and infection. Also, circumcision is a quick surgery that makes a decent sum of money for the doctor. Most doctors, b/c of their age, are not intact, so they don't know anything about it.

Here's the Galatians quote: For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love. http://bible.cc/galatians/5-6.htm
1Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
I guess I didn't read the verse before posting. I thought it just said that Jesus was the new covenant. I'll have to go home and read it tonight and make sure I interpret it correctly.

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Old 12-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #96
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I guess I didn't read the verse before posting. I thought it just said that Jesus was the new covenant. I'll have to go home and read it tonight and make sure I interpret it correctly.
It's kinda embarrassing talking so openly about my sex life since I'm pretty conservative so maybe we should have this talk in private instead.
No problem. If you want to talk via pm, that is fine.
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Why you shouldn't circumcise your son

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Old 12-17-2008, 07:08 PM   #97
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Has anyone who is pro-circ actually answered the question of *why* baby boys are ALWAYS born with foreskin if they should not have it?

And, what other procedures do we do to our children that cut off a body part?

I see parents say that piercing a baby girl's ears is horrible (I personally think you should wait, but am not passionate about it) b/c it is hurting her and mutilating her body w/out her consent. Well, at least a girl can let her piercing grow over if she does not like it.

A boy who is circed will never be able to get his foreskin back.

You do realize other civilized countries think we are barbaric for still doing this? It is like we are still living in the stone age with this issue.

FTR, my sons were so close to being circed! I actually held the paper in my hand in the hospital and looked over at dh and said "Well? What have we decided?" And he said no (God bless him, b/c I may have gone along with it if he had said yes- and I KNEW better!!!!!!!) If my oldest had been a boy, I had already signed the papers to have her cut!

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Old 12-17-2008, 08:56 PM   #98
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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No foreskins in this family!
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Originally Posted by Edenite View Post

No foreskins here either!
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Originally Posted by Us4&AngelCorey View Post
.....

I am pregnant with my 5th child, 4th son. 3 sons before him had a circ. He will not. I most certainly am not dancing because my sons have no forskin, what is there to dance about? Yes I do feel like I was ignorant before. There is no reason to him to be, no one has ever given me one valid reason for him to have a circ, I'm so excited to leave the hospital with an intact little boy who doesn't scream when I change his diaper because it hurts.

....
I was thinking about that too. It's one thing to believe in the supposed benefits of circumcision. It's another thing entirely to "dance and clap" about doing it....
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:09 PM   #99
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Thank you for the lovely compliment.

So, as a parent who defended circumcision to the hilt after having your first two boys circumcised, how did you come to terms with having to learn all these new facts and change your mind? I ask you to explain your internal process so that maybe others who have already circumcised their sons can see that it is possible to change your mind and move forward.

As for the Christian angle, part of the issue is that the new Testament is composed of books from various sources, and in the early days of Christianity, there were many sects who disagreed on many topics. Some thought they should carry on the Jewish tradition of circumcision, but Paul firmly states that circumcised/uncircumcised doesn't matter. What complicates the issue is that circumcision was often used in a metaphorical sense. Just as circumcision of the penis replaced human sacrifice for the Jews, Jesus's sacrifice replaced circumcision of the penis. The Bible speaks of "circumcising one's heart," which meant a paring of the spirit as a personal sacrifice to God. They obviously didn't mean to cut one's heart! In ancient times, the fact that the Jews circumcised themselves was really strange, as every other man in the world was not circumcised. It set the Jews apart and was definitely noticed by non-Jews, so to speak of circumcising one's heart was really committing to God. In Romans, they talk about how circumcision is fine, but it doesn't make up for bad things that you do. So there must have been people who said, "I am circumcised, so I am saved." Which is clearly not true! If it were only that easy!


I'd love to share

It never really felt 100% right to me in the first place....to have my baby hurt as soon as he was born. But I never questioned it because every man in my family is, including...my grandfather who supposedly had it done as an adult because i was told he was giving my grandmother infections
this was the argument I used to cling to , to defend it. However, looking back I think its fairly obvious that whatever the infection was (very possibly yeast, as diabetes runs in my family...) it most likely want's because of my grandfather needing to be circ'ed.

Anywho....after I saw that done to the baby in the NICU, it didn't hit me right away except that I was REALLY thankful I had just had a baby girl . We were not planning anymore kids after that (that was baby #4). Well, our next was a girl, but even when I was pg with her I knew in my heart that I couldn't go there again. I don't care what anyone tells me, I have such a hard time believing any baby can simply not cry through something that horrific. I think of how sensative my genitals are lol....and omgosh, just putting myself in that position, especially right after the trauma of birth pangs me for these little guys

When we concieved #6 and found out it was a boy, and I mentioned it to dh he was like ummmm no way, they need it done. I said, FINE....then YOU have to watch a video of it being done to a baby on the internet first, then we will talk. He declined (of course) and kind of let it go. Now, he too has had a change of heart and thinks it is totally unnecessary. Even one of my SIL's did not circ her 2 youngest boys, and her older son is, and i am so thankful she choose that for my sweet newphews

How have I dealt with it? Well...thats kind of a catch actually, because we have not quite yet. My oldest DS has asperger's, and well, he doesn't always notice such things, even though he has seen his 2 yougest brothers nakey. However, he is a strong passionate child and i kind of fear if/when he does realize they are intact and he is not. Of course my dh is circ'ed, so they won't be totally alone, but ugh....the guilt. It's hard. its one of those things that I wish a million times I could go back and have a *do over*, but I never can. I choose to alter my babies body for the sake of looking like Daddy...and I justifed it by religious beliefs, and the poor example of my grandfathers story. NOTHING can change what I have done. I hope my boys can forgive me someday when they learn the truth. And their wives too
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:35 PM   #100
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I was thinking about that too. It's one thing to believe in the supposed benefits of circumcision. It's another thing entirely to "dance and clap" about doing it....
I was dancing/clapping about something else she said!! Check what I quoted!
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