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Old 03-16-2012, 03:50 PM   #91
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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But see that employer has a company policy about smoking that is, I imagine, outlined before an employee starts. I highly doubt that a for-profit company has the power to control whether a person smokes when they are at home and off the clock, but even if they did it isn't the same as this situation. With the bill they are trying to pass, it doesn't matter what the company rules are. This opposition doesn't even have to be outlined ahead of time. Your boss (NOT the company) can just waltz in one day and decide on a whim that he doesn't think birth control is acceptable and then just fire any woman who uses it. How is that fair? It isn't like you can foresee that and decide not to work there. It isn't "rules are rules" when the boss can just change those "rules" on a whim to get rid of you.
In those situations the company needs to step in and police their employees a little better if they're giving such power to random employees to decide the fate of other employees. That's a company issue and, IMO, up to specific companies to put rules down to say "Your personal beliefs about XYZ do not matter, we're an equal opportunity employer and the board of this company makes decisions about what activities we'll permit for our employees and what activities we won't."

I'm not 100% when this policy got handed down, but DH said that when it did it included all current employees. It was quit smoking by X date or find alternate employment. Lots of people chose the 'alternate employment' option...it's been several years ago so it was an option (there were jobs available back then LOL), but some people gave up 10+ years with the company...their choice I suppose.

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Old 03-16-2012, 06:25 PM   #92
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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In those situations the company needs to step in and police their employees a little better if they're giving such power to random employees to decide the fate of other employees. That's a company issue and, IMO, up to specific companies to put rules down to say "Your personal beliefs about XYZ do not matter, we're an equal opportunity employer and the board of this company makes decisions about what activities we'll permit for our employees and what activities we won't."

I'm not 100% when this policy got handed down, but DH said that when it did it included all current employees. It was quit smoking by X date or find alternate employment. Lots of people chose the 'alternate employment' option...it's been several years ago so it was an option (there were jobs available back then LOL), but some people gave up 10+ years with the company...their choice I suppose.
Okay, but can't we agree there is a fundamental difference between asking employees to quit smoking because doing so would endanger the safety of others, and asking them to quit because you have a moral objection to it?

Smoking around flammable material could cause an explosion, harming or killing fellow employees and losing money for the company. My choices regarding birth control, however, have no impact on my employer.

If my behavior is legal, does not interfere with my performance and does not endanger my coworkers or harm my employer, than whatever moral objection my boss might have doesn't matter in the least.

And if you want to argue it would damage the church morally to provide comprehensive health coverage, including birth control, I might remind you of the historic and continued sexual abuse in the Catholic church and the officials at countless levels who have hidden abuse and re-victimized the abused. Let's see them sort out their moral problems on that front and maybe then I would have more sympathy for their predicament.

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Old 03-16-2012, 09:59 PM   #93
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

I see the distinction, and I do believe it should probably be included on most health plans. But I 100% do NOT support it being for a $0 copay. They can pay the exact same copay for birth control that my husband has to pay for insulin (comparative, depending on what form they're on of course). I will never support it being for $0 copay. A $0 copay will cause my premiums to go up and then I'll be paying $$$ extra each pay check and STILL paying almost $200 a month to keep my husband alive...all so Jane Doe can get Ortho-Tri-Cyclin for $0...
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:35 PM   #94
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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I see the distinction, and I do believe it should probably be included on most health plans. But I 100% do NOT support it being for a $0 copay. They can pay the exact same copay for birth control that my husband has to pay for insulin (comparative, depending on what form they're on of course). I will never support it being for $0 copay. A $0 copay will cause my premiums to go up and then I'll be paying $$$ extra each pay check and STILL paying almost $200 a month to keep my husband alive...all so Jane Doe can get Ortho-Tri-Cyclin for $0...
You have a right to be upset that your husband's insulin is not fully covered. Most healthcare plans do an abysmal job of covering vital medication and providing preventive care. However, I don't think 2 wrongs make a right. The right thing to do would be to calculate a fair and manageable co-pay for everything.

Also, your premiums shouldn't go up with 0$ copay birth control. The cost of birth control should be more than made up for by fewer unplanned births and more regular doctor visits (which would catch/prevent other illnesses).
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:38 PM   #95
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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Most pro-lifers believe life begins at conception, since the pill flushes out embryos and makes the lining of the uterus to thin to allow implantation (in other words causes abortions), we really can't be behind this imitative at all.

A lot of people don't know that the progesterone in he pill causes abortions, IUD like Mirena do too. So those countries just have lower rates of doctor-preformed abortions, not necessarily fewer aborts happening.

We can disagree about the issue, I just thought I'd try to explain one reason why pro-lifers aren't seeing this as any sort of solution.
Exactly... & just like we can't in good conscience support the pill, IUD's, etc., you'd never be told you HAD to support teaching kids & unmarried people NOT to have sex... we shouldn't be forced to pay for what we don't believe in, as you aren't forced to support what we believe in.

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The patient still purchases health insurance from the provider. Really, the cost is just spread to everyone in the group using insurance whether or not they choose to use hormonal birth control.
Which is crap!

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I honestly feel as though America is becoming a nation of self-entitlement and irresponsibility in many ways. There's no accountability anymore. And with the numerous other scary issues we face as a nation, this isn't exactly what I would rate as a "top issue."
tell me about it... NO, people are NOT entitled to anything just because they breathe... they have to work, just like the rest of anybody else who wants to accomplish anything in life... yes, there are times when people genuinely can't work, etc., however, in general as a nation, people everywhere walk around w/their hands out...

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He's the difference - babies aren't diseases. I know, I know, it's fetus, not a baby. And we mom's all know that. We would never dream of calling OUR children people until they're born, because before that they're just blobs of cells and stuff.


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Condoms really are THE thing to use from a cost saving standpoint. They are not expensive. They prevent pregnancy which is a big medical cost followed by an entire new person to insure. They also prevent STDs/STIs (pick your preferred letters) which cost a big chunk of change.
Agreed... they don't kill life once it has been created either... now people may not agree on ANY BC at all, but for me, I can live w/condoms from a pro-life perspective because there really are some people who just should NOT have any children or have any MORE children... as much of a blessing as children are, I do know people who have no business having any more children because they can barely take care of the ones they have.

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^^ Agreed. When the CEO of Merck or Pfizer takes home a billion dollars a year in pay while millions of people can't afford to pay $100/mo for their life saving medication, there's something wrong with the system.
YEP... my g'ma has to pay $1500 per MONTH even w/her supplemental insurance for 3 meds she must take... we have looked into alternatives & natural things, but the disease is very rare & there are very few who know anything about it... so she is stuck w/these meds for 2 YEARS... in the meantime, she makes about $50 per WEEK at her job... is single... & over 75... there is NO assistance for her... we have looked everywhere... she doesn't have a pension, inheritance, etc. It is sickening.. in the meantime, we scramble to find how to afford the meds for her... and this is the 3rd time it has come back... it comes back every 10 years... next time she will be in her 80s & will not survive if it comes back then... this needs to be fully eradicated... how many people are like her?!?! Countless... who need LIFESAVING meds, yet people want BC for a $0 copay?!?
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:40 PM   #96
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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I see the distinction, and I do believe it should probably be included on most health plans. But I 100% do NOT support it being for a $0 copay. They can pay the exact same copay for birth control that my husband has to pay for insulin (comparative, depending on what form they're on of course). I will never support it being for $0 copay. A $0 copay will cause my premiums to go up and then I'll be paying $$$ extra each pay check and STILL paying almost $200 a month to keep my husband alive...all so Jane Doe can get Ortho-Tri-Cyclin for $0...
YEP... I don't want to pay AT ALL because of my beliefs, BUT if I must, it should be the same as every other RX, at the very least... & if it goes to $0, the copays for the other meds will just go up to cover it...
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #97
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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Who pays for what is the least of my worries. What concerns me above and beyond all this insurance stuff is the general attitude of some of the politicians out there. If a politician thinks that women should pay for their own birth control, that is one thing. If a politician is morally-opposed to birth control and feels the need to impose that belief on women, well that is quite another. I find the opinions of the extreme religious right to be far more disturbing than any financial discussion about who should pay the tab for birth control. I feel like I'm witnessing a war on sex in general, and more specifically a war on women. THAT is what I find frightening.
This. I have been reading about too many politicians who if they had it their way bc would be banned all together. My dh just read an article where they were trying to pass a bill in either utah or arizona (would have to have him find the article) that not only could an employer not have bc covered. If they were religiously against bc and they found out a woman was taking it they could fire here. Wth? Seriously? Has to be some kind of joke.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:50 PM   #98
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

I have tricare prime insurance with 3 different copays on presciptions depending on the medication $9,$12 and $24. Some of my meds are cheaper than my daughter's BC,some cost more. So why should everybody have to pay the same copay for BC as someone else does for insulin or blood pressure medication,etc? Does'nt the cost of the copay come down to several things like if the medication is generic or not,price of medication from the maker and things like that?
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:02 PM   #99
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Re: This is how I feel about the BC debate

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I am posting and running because I am trying to cook dinner without burning it but...

Back in the 90s there was a publication in a popular magazine stating that research reflected a higher incidence of breast cancer among women using birth control in the form of the Pill. A few years later this was debunked but it was not put in a popular magazine so there is still this belief that birth control causes cancer.

This is my problem, the government has no right to tell women they can't have sex. By making birth control costly or harder to get access to, basically is making women pay a penalty for having sex. Honestly this boils down to that fact, women not having the right to have as much sex as they want. Rush Limbaugh basically uttered the very words that these conservative politicians feel deep inside but cloak in more acceptable vocabulary.

Are folks aware on this board that Arizona is putting a bill through that will allow physicians to LIE about the health of the fetus if they feel the information will lead to abortion? This includes things like tubal pregnancies. It is high time the WOMEN of this country step forward and reclaim their rights which are being chipped away by our uneducated politicians. This is about so much more than birth control, this is beginning to scare me to be frank.
Totally agree. This isnt just about birth control. Politicians are coming up with some scary crap that is going to push womens rights back 50 years. I dont want any one deciding what i can/cant do with my body.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:37 PM   #100
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Most pro-lifers believe life begins at conception, since the pill flushes out embryos and makes the lining of the uterus to thin to allow implantation (in other words causes abortions), we really can't be behind this imitative at all.
A lot of people don't know that the progesterone in he pill causes abortions, IUD like Mirena do too. So those countries just have lower rates of doctor-preformed abortions, not necessarily fewer aborts happening.
We can disagree about the issue, I just thought I'd try to explain one reason why pro-lifers aren't seeing this as any sort of solution.

Sent from my iPod touch using DS Forum (probably while nursing) - sorry for weird spelling errors
That is absolute nonsense. The pill does nothing to any already formed fetus. The idea that it thinned the lining was a theory that was disproven. And those same religious people are against condoms diaphragms and spermicide to so that's really just a distraction anyway. They know it's not true and they know it has nothing to do with why they oppose birthcontrol. The catholic church supports the rhythm method which is absolutely a form of birth control but one that requires male cooperation not a coincidence!
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