Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-29-2013, 04:56 PM   #521
bluedaisyma's Avatar
bluedaisyma
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,720
For those of you who believe a baby isn't a baby until viability, do you support partial-birth abortions? And also, viability changes all the time. Now 20 weekers have a chance...as the medical field becomes more advanced, do your views change? My grandma believed that a baby was a bunch of cells until 7 mo, but I know people who had babies at 5 mo who can refute that. I'm genuinely curious as to where the justification on abortion ends- 20 wks? 22? 30? (This is aimed at the "fetus" ugh I hate that word, and "ball of cells" pro-choicers, not those who admit it is a baby and still support the choice).

sry 4 abbrev, im 1 hnd-ed typng & nak frm my iPhone

Advertisement

__________________
Jul, This used to be a great place
bluedaisyma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 04:56 PM   #522
Hillargh
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,903
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmama View Post
Wait, when did h2bam say she was banned? I'm so lost, off to dig around. BTW I offered rewards for anyone who would video asking for floating goat supplies!! So someone must do it now.
It says it by her name. You can see it on the app easily, but it probably gets lost on the page on a computer unless you're looking.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using DS Forum
Hillargh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 04:57 PM   #523
Vespertina's Avatar
Vespertina
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 621
My Mood:
Re: I hear this a lot, and don't "get it".....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post

[. . .]

Somehow using Hindu logic to tell me,
I'm not sure what Hindu logic is, but I'm curious to find out.

I addressed logical fallacies, the ones being presented in this thread (or the posts I quoted). I made reference to Hinduism as part of my counter argument. *shrug*

Quote:
in many more words, that I'm stupid for following my God instead of none because I'm far too unintelligent to understand how religion works is ok? I'd rather have ms. canoe back.
Straw man. I addressed the logical fallacies presented, including the false dichotomy you present here. What I said was less about how religion works and more about why logical fallacies don't work.
__________________
Aeona, ima to Grace, 12/04 Evangeline, 11/06 Duncan, 11/08 and Henry, 12/09 born at home.

Vespertina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:00 PM   #524
EmmaGM's Avatar
EmmaGM
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 7,895
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespertina View Post

They wouldn't because to the majority of religionists he doesn't exist, correct? I was giving an example as to the double standard that exists. I never implied someone called Thor out of name. I stated my case in the hypothetical. No Christian would call Thor out of name because he does not actually exist. He can't be [insert derogatory word here] because he ain't real. However, one could, based on the mythos, come to the conclusion that he is X based on what they've read. Likewise, someone could arrive at a similar conclusion about other deities I won't name based on how they are portrayed in their respective mythos.

Context is key.

Um, okay?

Say what?

I'm not following.

So, it's not okay to call non-Christians "unbelievers," "deluded by the devil," "lost," "confused," "misguided," all of which can be regarded as insults. Heck, one could regard being told their religion is "of the devil" as the ultimate insult. Or that they're "lost" and "misguided." All of these terms are pretty standard evangelicalese -- common amongst the conservative and fundamentalist types. Folks can package their convictions in a "warm," and "sweet" manner, citing they're doing it out of "Christ's love," but it's transparent what's being said. And it ain't warm or sweet.
uh.. no. No one would say anything about Thor because whatever isn't a common religion, not because he doesn't exist. Say someone did, for the sake of your ridiculous comparison, and another member said, "hey, that offends me." Then the offender should say, "whoa sorry bro, I was ignorant." End of discussion.

In short, no, it's not okay to call people lost or misguided etc. Especially not if one is being as condescending as you manage to be.

I understand that you want to make this a complex issue, but my only point has been that respect for everybody's beliefs should be the default.
__________________
Emma H&T Mama to Faolan 6/7/12 & Malachy 1/29/14
Mary born into heaven at 14 weeks
Cautiously expecting #4 10/6/16
EmmaGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:03 PM   #525
Hillargh
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,903
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedaisyma View Post
For those of you who believe a baby isn't a baby until viability, do you support partial-birth abortions? And also, viability changes all the time. Now 20 weekers have a chance...as the medical field becomes more advanced, do your views change? My grandma believed that a baby was a bunch of cells until 7 mo, but I know people who had babies at 5 mo who can refute that. I'm genuinely curious as to where the justification on abortion ends- 20 wks? 22? 30? (This is aimed at the "fetus" ugh I hate that word, and "ball of cells" pro-choicers, not those who admit it is a baby and still support the choice).

sry 4 abbrev, im 1 hnd-ed typng & nak frm my iPhone
I'll bite. For me, I feel that after nervous system development, it's cruel. That the fetus having to feel it is cruel. But that doesn't necessarily define when I feel a fetus is a child. Or the legal point. So which am I addressing, when I personally feel a fetus is a child or when it /should/ be seen as a child? Or if I agree with partial birth abortions? All three are separate things to me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using DS Forum

Last edited by Hillargh; 03-29-2013 at 05:08 PM.
Hillargh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:05 PM   #526
Hungry Caterpillar's Avatar
Hungry Caterpillar
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by vatblack

I have no bone to pick with you. Only with the fact that one user gets banned for 6 months after she apologised for the same actions you are taking but you aren't even talked to.

It is the double standard of DS that I'm questioning. Not your point of view.
The puppy dog stuff spans a dozen or so threads.

Vespertina comes in on the religious theology threads because she has the expansive knowledge. She's not being disrespectful, she's just laying out the knowledge.
__________________
Andrea
Mama to B and E, Wife to E
Parenting with Hugs and Terror since 2011
Hungry Caterpillar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:07 PM   #527
MadeofStarStuff's Avatar
MadeofStarStuff
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmaGM


I understand that you want to make this a complex issue, but my only point has been that respect for everybody's beliefs should be the default.
I really disagree with this. I can respect your RIGHT to believe whatever you like, but I will not respect everyone's beliefs. If the belief strikes me as harmful, hateful, or ludicrous, I refuse to respect it.

I also find the very "school-yard" type of jabs that a poster is speaking in big words, showing off a college degree, or speaking in a way people can not understand to be quite offensive. Well-thought out arguments, with an excellent grasp of vocabulary should be lauded, not insulted.
__________________
Happily married, Mom of C (15), M (3), and E (1). Expecting a very big surprise baby on 3/25/14.
WAHM of hand-embroidered creations in my Etsy shop here.
MadeofStarStuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:09 PM   #528
Hillargh
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,903
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeofStarStuff View Post

I really disagree with this. I can respect your RIGHT to believe whatever you like, but I will not respect everyone's beliefs. If the belief strikes me as harmful, hateful, or ludicrous, I refuse to respect it.

I also find the very "school-yard" type of jabs that a poster is speaking in big words, showing off a college degree, or speaking in a way people can not understand to be quite offensive. Well-thought out arguments, with an excellent grasp of vocabulary should be lauded, not insulted.
It's not really an issue of respecting a belief, but respecting a person enough not to disrespect their belief TO them.

ETA: I could think your (general) mom is a ho-bag, but I would have enough respect for you to not say that to you. And if a topic ever came up, certainly not address it in that manner, kwim?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using DS Forum

Last edited by Hillargh; 03-29-2013 at 05:16 PM.
Hillargh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:11 PM   #529
EmmaGM's Avatar
EmmaGM
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 7,895
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeofStarStuff View Post

I really disagree with this. I can respect your RIGHT to believe whatever you like, but I will not respect everyone's beliefs. If the belief strikes me as harmful, hateful, or ludicrous, I refuse to respect it.

I also find the very "school-yard" type of jabs that a poster is speaking in big words, showing off a college degree, or speaking in a way people can not understand to be quite offensive. Well-thought out arguments, with an excellent grasp of vocabulary should be lauded, not insulted.
I suppose that's your right, but being hateful toward the person who is following their faith probably isn't going to change their mind.

I find her tone rude and disrespectful, nothing to do with her thesaurus.
__________________
Emma H&T Mama to Faolan 6/7/12 & Malachy 1/29/14
Mary born into heaven at 14 weeks
Cautiously expecting #4 10/6/16
EmmaGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 05:13 PM   #530
Vespertina's Avatar
Vespertina
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 621
My Mood:
Re: I hear this a lot, and don't "get it".....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedaisyma View Post
For those of you who believe a baby isn't a baby until viability, do you support partial-birth abortions?
I don't get the reliance on using logical fallacies to make a point. The D&X has been banned, so it's rather moot.

However, induction termination is still performed in cases of adverse perinatal outcome.

Quote:
And also, viability changes all the time. Now 20 weekers have a chance...as the medical field becomes more advanced, do your views change?
Cite a credible source. That would be a statistical outlier and should not be used to determine age of viability. Just because an infinitesimally small number of babies survive before the documented age of viability does not mean all or most do or can.

Quote:
My grandma believed that a baby was a bunch of cells until 7 mo, but I know people who had babies at 5 mo who can refute that.
Where does refutation come in? How does one "refute" an opinion. Both are opinions. Some people believe babies aren't people (or possess rights) until birth. That's an opinion. I think most are aware a fetus later in pregnancy is not just a ball of cells. The majority of those that are pro-choice do not use that terminology to refer to fetuses during late stage of development.

It isn't about whether it is a baby, rather, it's about whether it is a person/child with rights. Once the age of viability is reached this discussion, mom's rights versus the rights of the fetus, is moot. One doesn't need to choose between the two, as it is commonly presented in "who would you save, mom or baby?" debates. Well, you don't have to choose once that point is reached. You save both. The only time that decision has to be made is before that point is reached and the fetus/baby is not viable.

Quote:
I'm genuinely curious as to where the justification on abortion ends- 20 wks? 22? 30? (This is aimed at the "fetus" ugh I hate that word, and "ball of cells" pro-choicers, not those who admit it is a baby and still support the choice).
IIRC, one can opt for an induction termination up until 23 weeks. That is, technically, an "abortion," but NOT the abortion you speak of, which has been outlawed.

The D&X is no longer performed except in very rare cases of hydrocephalus where both c-section and vaginal birth are contraindicated. Again, this is condition is so extremely rare. I can't think of a single other situation where the D&X would need to be performed.
__________________
Aeona, ima to Grace, 12/04 Evangeline, 11/06 Duncan, 11/08 and Henry, 12/09 born at home.

Vespertina is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.