View Poll Results: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people don't?
Yes, primarily because of herd immunity. 118 27.83%
Yes, but not primarily because of herd immunity. 24 5.66%
No, but I wish they would. 40 9.43%
No, vaccines are a personal choice. 134 31.60%
I do not vaccinate my children. 85 20.05%
I like polls and want to see the results without answering. 23 5.42%
Voters: 424. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-25-2012, 12:09 PM   #281
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I am confused. Did you or he or both of you have your titers drawn?
They drew his. I don't recall them drawing mine until after (I still had it for about 2 weeks after I gave birth).

ETA: I was told they needed to check to see if he had an immunity since I still had it and would be in close contact with him (obviously).

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Old 06-25-2012, 01:11 PM   #282
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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They drew his. I don't recall them drawing mine until after (I still had it for about 2 weeks after I gave birth).

ETA: I was told they needed to check to see if he had an immunity since I still had it and would be in close contact with him (obviously).

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Ahhh! That makes sense. I wuz cornfuzzled.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:24 PM   #283
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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You shouldn't be required to undergo an unnecessary medical procedure in order to be considered "public". What if I said I don't think formula fed kids should attend the same schools as breast fed because their immune systems are weaker and those kids spread the most disease? That's a public health issue too, but I bet you would argue against that suggestion.

Vaccination, or lack thereof, is fundamentally a liberty as opposed to a right. It is scary to think we have to be granted the "right" to be vax free.

One day we will all be eating antibiotics for breakfast, like cows...
Except, that's a ridiculous and unfounded statement. Where have you ever seen a study that formula-fed kids spread more disease? I think most people would argue against that suggestion because it's preposterous, not because it's a public health issue.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:28 PM   #284
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Ahhh! That makes sense. I wuz cornfuzzled.
Haha yeah, I re-read it and saw I worded it weirdly.

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Old 06-25-2012, 02:18 PM   #285
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Except, that's a ridiculous and unfounded statement. Where have you ever seen a study that formula-fed kids spread more disease? I think most people would argue against that suggestion because it's preposterous, not because it's a public health issue.
I don't want to get into the whole BF vs FF debate, but as someone who works with BFing mothers and babies/children, it is known that FF babies are typically more sick than BF'd babies. That doesn't mean it's like that in *every* case.

"Formula-fed babies are sicker, sick more often, and are more likely to die in infancy or childhood. " http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/224832.php

There have also been reports stating that formula fed infants were at a higher risk of ear infections, etc. And there were a few articles published, last year I think, stating that low breastfeeding rates were a public health issue.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:31 PM   #286
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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I don't want to get into the whole BF vs FF debate, but as someone who works with BFing mothers and babies/children, it is known that FF babies are typically more sick than BF'd babies. That doesn't mean it's like that in *every* case.

"Formula-fed babies are sicker, sick more often, and are more likely to die in infancy or childhood. " http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/224832.php

There have also been reports stating that formula fed infants were at a higher risk of ear infections, etc. And there were a few articles published, last year I think, stating that low breastfeeding rates were a public health issue.
You took the words out of my mouth. I read that and was thinking, well, it's well know that they are (generally) sick more often, so it makes good sense that they would spread more disease. It wasn't a far fetched comparison in my mind.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:34 PM   #287
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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I don't want to get into the whole BF vs FF debate, but as someone who works with BFing mothers and babies/children, it is known that FF babies are typically more sick than BF'd babies. That doesn't mean it's like that in *every* case.

"Formula-fed babies are sicker, sick more often, and are more likely to die in infancy or childhood. " http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/224832.php

There have also been reports stating that formula fed infants were at a higher risk of ear infections, etc. And there were a few articles published, last year I think, stating that low breastfeeding rates were a public health issue.
Generally speaking, yes.

Throw in VPD and you have a different set of statistics that strongly show that those who get vaccinated for X disease have a much, much higher resistance than those who did not get vaccinated for X disease.

BF vs FF does not have an impact nearly this big. That is why the suggestion is not practical.

ETA: I feel that I must point out that the link supplied only focused on babies while vaccines extend throughout childhood and public schooling where they will have a much higher exposure rate than during infancy and toddlerhood.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:42 PM   #288
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

I don't want to derail this thread any further and I shouldn't have answered the derailing response
but
Most studies don't don't control for anything that compromises an immune system and would force formula as the only option. Kids born with drug exposure or SN that can't latch on or physical issues that inhibit breastfeeding are likely to already hacker compromised immune systems. It's. Not the formula that gets them sick.

Plus when formula became taboo no one taught the importance of sterilization and kids were ill from that. Undereducation was a big part of that.

I am on my tablet now sitting with my sleeping baby so cant link but there have been just as many studies saying that the ff babies being sicker is a myth.

But let's goback to arguing about vaccines.

ETA since I am on a computer now and can actually type:
The above emoticon wasn't sarcastic. I really am enjoying the debate.

Regarding these studies - you really just cannot control for a BF vs FF study because of all the surrounding factors. People who try to BF or are successful BFers are more likely to take care of the baby in utero and be more conscious of the environment when born. This will itself lessen most illness. Additionally, the bottle sterilization issue is actually a really large issue because when the movement went towards super pro breastfeeding (which is great, I have no issue at all with that, just a disclaimer) and demonized formula feeding (which I do have an issue with) no one taught anything about bottle and parts cleanliness. There have been numerous studies about poorer factions being less likely to breastfeed, which means they are formula feeding. If they are also uneducated and don't know as much about hygiene, they will fall into the camp in danger of subjecting a baby to illness due to poor bottle hygiene.

But, with the vaccine issue at hand, MCPForever hits it because even though kids all have different immune systems, it's easier to quantify vaccines and immunity.

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Originally Posted by JennTheMomma View Post
I don't want to get into the whole BF vs FF debate, but as someone who works with BFing mothers and babies/children, it is known that FF babies are typically more sick than BF'd babies. That doesn't mean it's like that in *every* case.

"Formula-fed babies are sicker, sick more often, and are more likely to die in infancy or childhood. " http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/224832.php

There have also been reports stating that formula fed infants were at a higher risk of ear infections, etc. And there were a few articles published, last year I think, stating that low breastfeeding rates were a public health issue.
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You took the words out of my mouth. I read that and was thinking, well, it's well know that they are (generally) sick more often, so it makes good sense that they would spread more disease. It wasn't a far fetched comparison in my mind.
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Last edited by Hungry Caterpillar; 06-25-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: more
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:03 PM   #289
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Caterpillar View Post
I don't want to derail this thread any further and I shouldn't have answered the derailing response
but
Most studies don't don't control for anything that compromises an immune system and would force formula as the only option. Kids born with drug exposure or SN that can't latch on or physical issues that inhibit breastfeeding are likely to already hacker compromised immune systems. It's. Not the formula that gets them sick.

Plus when formula became taboo no one taught the importance of sterilization and kids were ill from that. Undereducation was a big part of that.

I am on my tablet now sitting with my sleeping baby so cant link but there have been just as many studies saying that the ff babies being sicker is a myth.

But let's goback to arguing about vaccines.
I absolutely would never say that formula makes kids sick, except in the rare case with allergies or whatever. I don't think formula makes them sick, but it also doesn't not pass on antibodies and immune benifits like BFing. Ever. So in general they are sicker, at least for a while until their immune system strengthens.

As far as shots, well I still belive they absolutely should be a personal choice, no questions asked.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:18 PM   #290
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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I absolutely would never say that formula makes kids sick, except in the rare case with allergies or whatever. I don't think formula makes them sick, but it also doesn't not pass on antibodies and immune benifits like BFing. Ever. So in general they are sicker, at least for a while until their immune system strengthens.

As far as shots, well I still belive they absolutely should be a personal choice, no questions asked.
The passive immunity gained from breastfeeding wanes over time. By the time children are school aged, that immunity is no longer something that should be considered a factor in health. Honestly, if you look at it that way, by school age, the breastfed baby who did not gain lifelong immunity to a variety of common viruses is more likely to get sick with them than the formula fed child who had those viruses as a baby.

The common cold is not preventable by vaccination. However, measles is. The government believes that preventing the spread of disease is an important public health issue. Preventing measles by community vaccination is an attainable goal while preventing the dozens of viruses that spread the common cold is not. Therefore vaccination is a requirement for entering the public school - unless you have a valid exemption. Students should be able to enter the public school with the assurance that anyone not vaccinated has a really good reason for it. Individual states have determined how high a threshhold there should be for those reasons - from pretty much any reason goes all the way up to you need a valid medical reason.
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