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Old 07-20-2010, 07:37 PM   #21
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

My response is coming from my experience with my own daughter (strong willed, spirited and has sensory processing disorder), AND from working in special ed before becoming a stay at home mom. I'm going to stay out of the religious part of it.

ODD is a disorder that USUALLY does not work well w/ "3 strikes and you're out discipline" or with physical punishment. The BEST thing you can do is praise good behaviour. The next best thing is to PICK YOUR BATTLES!!!! If you can start by doing these things- YOUR life will be much easier, putting you in a better mood/mind frame, and giving you a chance to discipline in a more effective manor when needed. ODD children with fear (of being hit/spanked/isolated/undermined- whatever punishment) will act out more often, have more melt downs, and defy more often. It's unfortunate for you- since you believe that to spare the rod spoils the child. You may want to reconsider what that means for you and your family- and how important it is to follow when you have a child with special/higher needs than the average kiddo. I'm being very literal here- not trying to impose any judgement on your parenting choices- just realistic.

Being consistent is VERY important. Setting expectations is too. "We are going to the store in 5 minutes. If you throw a fit while we are out, you will need to (insert consequence) as soon as we get home. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Now, what happens if you throw a fit while we are out? (then reiterate if needed). " For us- the consequence is that she will need to go cuddle up in mommy's blankets and pillows until you are in a better mood (DD is 3.5). For her and me- that is what works best. We get a break from each other- (which NEVER happens- DH works 70 hours a week), she gets quiet (her sensory stuff) and I get something done around the house, which puts me in a better mood to deal with her needs. These are my best discipline days- I have not hurt my childs feelings or esteem (REALLY important w/ her sensitivities), I have not physically hurt her (we don't spank), I have helped her help herself (life skills!), and I feel better! Who can ask for a better day- even if there was a fit?!

I still have days where I am literally bribing and begging to just get through the effing grocery store without another tantrum and it usually leads to us both crying and lots of people staring- It's part of life with a difficult 3 y/o, IMO.

I guess you really just have to sit down and prioritize things, pick your battles (does it really matter if her shoes don't match?! -this is a common one here!), set expectations, FOLLOW through with consistency (don't up the ante if she doesn't stop at the first reminder of her consequnce), and really let her know how much you appreciate her GOOD behaviours.

I really feel you on this one- we are in the midst of it all right now, and I don't have it down to a science- but these things have REALLY helped us out! Good Luck- and hope you get some better answers regarding the christian aspect of this- I was raised w/ conservative christian type discipline/punishments but w/out the christian base... so?! I guess I don't 'get it'. Sorry!

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Old 07-20-2010, 07:48 PM   #22
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

Oh...that last post was good advice!

Some kids are naturally obedient...not my son. He needs everything to be his idea..on his program. It doesnt quite mesh with the Do as I say theory. When he was at his worst..I felt like I was just making sure he didnt hurt himself or anyone else all day. The previous post though hit it right on the head. Its a head trip trying to get at these kids. You just need to stay firm, and take breaks when you need them, or you will lose your momentum. The rewards will be great in heaven. God sent you a challenge or you were cut out for. He didnt send you anyone ordinary, He sent you one EXTRAordinary. Ive always believed that because they are so challenging that they must have big things ahead for them!
These are the kids that will tackle any challenge, will lead groups, will have the strongest faith, and they love more than anyone I have ever seen. They have ferocious love. But, it is such a balancing act trying to mold their behavior.
My brother was this way. My mom couldnt handle it, and spent most of her time in a bar. He's sitting in jail right now. The kid who had so much potential IF he would have had good parents...so sad. I was determined to raise my little guy different.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:38 PM   #23
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

I appreciate the insight into ODD. I honestly never knew it existed. I am going to look further into this and see what I can do as far as diagnosis and counseling. I do not know that this is what she has, and I surely don't spank to be detrimental to her. And we don't spank daily, sometimes not even weekly. It depends on what is going on and what is a last resort. I spank her less now than I did when she was younger, and less than her sister. This is mostly because I don't spank when I am angry, and she makes me angry quite a bit.

I don't think I would appreciate my Christian/conservative upbringing without the Christian basis, and would probably have a different view on it without it. However, I was raised very conservative and, until about 9 years ago, I went to church every Sunday and was a very devout Christian. Several things in my life over the last few months have brought me back to the church and back to God. I am a much stronger Christian than I was even 3 months ago. I can easily say that 95% of what I do each day is thought with "is this what God wants for me, my family, my life?"

Also, now I am really considering the ODD. We had a conversation about God earlier and how He wants us to act and the like. At first she was her normal self. She asked questions and agreed with everything I said, even adding to it. But the conversation ended with her completely switching and, more or less, saying she didn't care. She has said to me several times in the past that God made her bad. Could there be a connection, because she has certainly been taught otherwise?
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:46 PM   #24
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

She is only 6, she is learning how to deal with her feelings and emotions. If she hasn't been taught how to express them in an appropriate manner, how can she be expected to? Emotions are very complex and can even be very scary to children, but they need to be allowed to have them and shown HOW to express them. Kids make mistakes, that's all part of learning! I wouldn't punish a toddler for repeatedly falling down when learning to walk, I believe the same applies to children learning how to control their emotions.

I would strongly recommend the book Grace Based Parenting It can give you a whole new way of viewing your children, yourself, and what God wants for all of us
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:49 PM   #25
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

I have a question first of all: when you say ODD do you mean a disorder or are you saying Older Dear Daughter?

I want to reaffirm what others have said: PRAY!! James 1:5 says that God will give you wisdom if you ask. I was having a horrible time with DD potty training, then I started praying for wisdom about what to do, and God gave me a super simple answer, and we had immediate amazing success with it! God cares about what you're going through with your children, even down to potty training!

I believe that whether or not spanking is hitting depends on how it is done. In the heat of the moment, in anger, as a reflex action, etc. makes it hitting. Calmly, discussed, striking the skin lightly so all you're really doing is causing a momentary sting on the surface I believe makes it more effective discipline. I know that's not the point of what you are wanting, but others were asking and I just wanted to say that. I don't spank my children for anything and everything, but there are things that yes I do spank them for, especially when they're too young to really reason with. You have to do what works for your child.

Anyway.

I was going to suggest New Kid by Friday, I haven't read it myself (DH has) but I do know people who say it's more effective for older children.
I don't think the Pearls are perfect, but I do think they make some very good points, the big ones for me were to keep your voice and attitude calm, don't raise your voice, because that tends to teach children that "I don't have to listen yet, mom's not yelling." You want them to obey when you speak to them in a conversational tone.
Also, don't give warnings. Don't count to three. Don't give chance after chance. That again teaches them that they don't have to obey "yet". You want your children to obey you the first time. Consistently respond to the bad behaviour with the negative consequence, as immediately as possible. And don't wait to start discipline until they're 2 or however old. As soon as they're old enough to move around and explore they can start being disciplined. When I say discipline, I mean some sort of negative consequence for unwanted behaviour that the child understands and responds to.

3NavyBabies, I'm probably over-explaining myself to you, but I want what I mean to be clear to whoever else might read this.

My basic advice is pray pray pray! And a big thing I found with my DD (who's turning 3 next week) when we go out in public is before we leave the house, I tell her what we're doing and where we're going and what I expect of her. Stay with mommy, hold hands, no whining, etc etc. Then in the car when we arrive and I'm getting her out of her carseat, we go over it again. Then she knows what she's supposed to do, and she knows when she hasn't done it.
We've also started teaching her a phrase that my BIL and his wife taught their kids (and they are some of the best kids you will ever ever meet): Obedience brings blessing, disobedience brings pain. (When you obey you get blessings, when you disobey you get pain is more on her level, the jist is the same.) Now I can tell her "you're disobeying" and she responds. I can ask her "are you going to obey or disobey?" and she knows what will happen with the choice she makes.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but that's my I hope things improve for you!!
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:52 PM   #26
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

I think you would get some great advice from these ladies Gentle Christian Mothers They are wonderful and have some great techniques. Grace Based Parenting is something they talk about a lot. Read some on the site and see what you think. And don't hesitate to post and ask questions. They are so helpful!
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:55 PM   #27
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

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I think you would get some great advice from these ladies Gentle Christian Mothers They are wonderful and have some great techniques. Grace Based Parenting is something they talk about a lot. Read some on the site and see what you think. And don't hesitate to post and ask questions. They are so helpful!
I love GCM I have found the most support and advice there than anywhere else!
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:04 PM   #28
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

Chello- I love your post, thank you! And the spanking vs. hitting...you said it well!

I am going to check into these, but there are 3 things I am going to do starting in the am.
1. PRAY, PRAY, PRAY. Harder, stronger, louder than I have been.
2. Pick my battles, and keep my anger under control. That helps NO ONE!
3. Get down on her level and remember that she is only 5. Explain, enforce and stay consistent.

Thank you so much ladies, all of you. I guess #4 will be look into all of these great suggestions!
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:32 PM   #29
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

I'm not a conservative Christian, but I wanted to respond. It sounds to me like she was tired and over stimulated. In your situation, I would've split the drink so they could both have some...this is what I do with my kids. I *try* to be proactive to avoid melt downs.
As for the melt down...I would've stayed calm, picked up her shoes, and let her walk barefoot. When we got home, depending on whether or not she was cooled down, I would've let her know that she needs to rest and put her in her room. However, for me, if my DD would've told me that she was ready to be "good", as your DD said, I would've then talked to her about her behavior, and how she could do things differently the next time.
Don't let me fool you though...I'm not always this calm. I TRY to be. I don't punish my kids...I try to use those moments as learning experiences. I have been working extra hard at remaining cool in those tense moments with my kids. I notice when I remain cool and in control of my emotions, those tense moments dissolve quickly.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:42 PM   #30
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Re: Convservative Christians...I would love some advice

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I don't consider spanking hitting.
Not a judgement...just a statement. They are one in the same...no matter how you try to explain them as "different".
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