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Old 02-17-2011, 12:01 PM   #991
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Sarah-- ok, I can see your issue if it's well water. Wondering if Karen's theory about bacteria is right....Water not being hot enough would make that more of a problem. Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but have you tried Bac-out? Now the borax is something that, like I said, *seems* to be working well for me but truthfully I don't notice a HUGE difference. When I started using Bac-out tho, the difference was night and day.

My issue had been stink...my diapers were just not smelling clean enough out the washer. they still smelled like pee even when I sterted using Tide and HOT water in my washes and rinses. Now I spray Bac-out on most of my dipes before they go in the pail and then use a little in the pre-rinse as well. Night and day difference.
Right now im not getting ammonia unless i let a diaper sit for a long time with out rinsing it. Only time I get an obvious ammonia issue is when I use too much soap and not add enough rinses to compensate for the higher amounts of soap. I know that my water is not hot enough to kill bacteria, I try to boost it the best I can. I have to rely on the bacteria being washed away completely from the diapers. This is why when i use more soap it causes ammonia issues. The more soap I use means the more/longer I need to rinse my diapers. If I had hot enough water to kill the bacteria I wouldn't need to rely on rinsing to get the bacteria out. Also the hotter the water the easier it is to rinse everything away.

I have not tried bac-out. I will look into it. What exactly is it? Does it kill bacteria?


I posted this chart before. My hot wash yesterday was 108 degrees.

http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educat...eria/bac4.html

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Old 02-17-2011, 02:33 PM   #992
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Right now im not getting ammonia unless i let a diaper sit for a long time with out rinsing it. Only time I get an obvious ammonia issue is when I use too much soap and not add enough rinses to compensate for the higher amounts of soap. I know that my water is not hot enough to kill bacteria, I try to boost it the best I can. I have to rely on the bacteria being washed away completely from the diapers. This is why when i use more soap it causes ammonia issues. The more soap I use means the more/longer I need to rinse my diapers. If I had hot enough water to kill the bacteria I wouldn't need to rely on rinsing to get the bacteria out. Also the hotter the water the easier it is to rinse everything away.

I have not tried bac-out. I will look into it. What exactly is it? Does it kill bacteria?


I posted this chart before. My hot wash yesterday was 108 degrees.

http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educat...eria/bac4.html
Here's the info on Bac-out that I found on the Biokleen website: http://www.bi-o-kleen.com/general.htm

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Eliminates the most difficult, organic stains, odors and waste the way nature intended. Bac-Out is a very unique blend of natural living enzyme cultures and botanical extracts, with more strains of cultures for more effective performance than commercial brands. Great for carpets, upholstery, laundry, bathrooms, diapers, drains, septic tanks, garbage pails and chutes, pet runs and kennels. Even eliminates pet and mildew stains and odors.
Now this description is a bit dated, i can tell because their picture of the product is the old packaging, not the new bottles they're sold in. And I've noticed that it's been more specifically marketed for diapers and laundry lately. It has enzymes in it that eat organic materials-- so it's great for poopy diapers. I bought some in bulk from www.drugstore.com because we love this product so much. It works with botanical enzymes to eat bacteria and odors, and also has lime extract as one of the main incredients. (It smells like lime when you spray it on your dipes--- lime the fruit, not the mineral.) My specific problem wasn't ammonia....not sure I've ever dealt with that issue. When I use Bac-out , I don't get that not quite clean enough "pee" smell that I used to get.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:03 PM   #993
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

I've never used Bac-Out specifically but something with lots of enzymes is a good idea. Years ago I had some minor issues with my first dd's diapers and a local cd store carried a product called "Mother's Little Miracle" and it was an enzyme based product that sounds a lot like Bac-Out. Made a big difference in my diapers...

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Old 02-17-2011, 06:21 PM   #994
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Here's the info on Bac-out that I found on the Biokleen website: http://www.bi-o-kleen.com/general.htm



Now this description is a bit dated, i can tell because their picture of the product is the old packaging, not the new bottles they're sold in. And I've noticed that it's been more specifically marketed for diapers and laundry lately. It has enzymes in it that eat organic materials-- so it's great for poopy diapers. I bought some in bulk from www.drugstore.com because we love this product so much. It works with botanical enzymes to eat bacteria and odors, and also has lime extract as one of the main incredients. (It smells like lime when you spray it on your dipes--- lime the fruit, not the mineral.) My specific problem wasn't ammonia....not sure I've ever dealt with that issue. When I use Bac-out , I don't get that not quite clean enough "pee" smell that I used to get.

That seems like my biggest re-occuring issue, the not quite clean "pee" smell that lingers on inserts and diapers. Sometimes its only a couple of inserts, typically the night ones are the worst but sometimes the other ones too. Usually and extra rinse helps but doesn't always get that super clean smell. Do you know of any place that sells samples. I would like to try some out with out spending a lot of money. I don't know if anyplace local sells it. It just the shipping that gets ya.

Is the bumgenius oder remover similar to bac-out?
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:35 PM   #995
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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How are you doing with your diaper laundry these days?
Same problems. but i switched from rng to planet powder and no difference in the ammonia. Actually some mornings its OK, but never good. Some mornings it smells like ammonia slightly, pretty bad or it just smells like barnyard. I don't know what its different every time. All the diapers have been through at least a couple washes with planet now. I am also adding some oxy cleaner (but I Have don't that a lot in the past as well and it didn't correct the problem). I have to use about half the recommended amount of detergent or I can't get the detergent out. I still have to do at least two additional hot wash cycles and then two cold rinses after everything. Its stressful. I cannot use Tide due to the enzymes. I bought some SUN detergent as well, but haven't tried it. I honestly don't think its the detergent. I think my water has tons of minerals and they are building up in the diaper somehow and thats was is causing the ammonia (don't know really). But my flats had ammonia really bad before I gave up on using them and they are stiff and bleached out looking from all the oxy and or bleached used to kill the ammonia. I could never get them OK. Really weird.
Overnight if I use cloth (and not a sposie) then I layer the diaper with a fleece liner and the new disana silk liners I got. This seems to be protecting the bum from ammonia burn.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:37 PM   #996
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

I tried bac out (because I used to us it a lot with other child) and it burned my daughters bottom. She just can't handle any enzymes. ??? wonder if the thirsties pre-wash stuff is the same sort of enzymes as bac-out.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:43 PM   #997
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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I tried bac out (because I used to us it a lot with other child) and it burned my daughters bottom. She just can't handle any enzymes. ??? wonder if the thirsties pre-wash stuff is the same sort of enzymes as bac-out.
Hey soft water support group.

I tried Thirsties pre-wash and wash and it didn't work for us. Wasn't getting things clean enough. I tried it twice (like I used it during the summer for a week or two) and put them away, and then brought them back out in the fall and tried again. No luck.

I'm still at a loss. I'm rinsing my night diapers as they come off. I prerinse on hot when I wash. Then I wash on hot or sanitary with a good amount of detergent. Then I rinse at least twice (using the wash cycle with no detergent).

Still lots of morning ammonia.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:00 AM   #998
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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I tried bac out (because I used to us it a lot with other child) and it burned my daughters bottom. She just can't handle any enzymes. ??? wonder if the thirsties pre-wash stuff is the same sort of enzymes as bac-out.
Well, what I hjave heard is that Bac-out will do that to any baby, not just one who has espeically sensitive skin. That's why it's recommended that you use it in the pre-wash only. And it only takes about 3 squirts. I end up with a little more in my prewash because I spray most diapers as they come off baby and before going in the pail.

So the trick (same thing with Tide or any other detergent with enzymes) is to rinse, rinse, rinse. What I do, and it works great, is I run an entire second wash on HOT with no detergent after my initial pre-rinse and detergent wash. In one wash alone w/o detergent you get at least 3 hot or warm rinses. Works really, really well for us.

As for the Thirsties pre-wash....I have some of it because it's been so highly recommended, but I honestly can't tell a difference from when I use it and when I don't. Maybe that's because I still use the Bac-out too, and that de-stinks everything enough by itself? I don't know.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:18 AM   #999
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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When I do my normal laundry routine for the most part my diapers are good. Ive just been messing around with other laundry detergents and methods. The dinginess is more a "cosmetic" aspect I dislike. Not sure if it is related to the way my diapers get clean or not or the funky smelly night diapers. Anyway, I have used borax before and there is no noticeable difference except when I used way to much one time (horrible smell...off the charts). The thing with water softeners for laundry is they are salt (sodium) based which is used for calcium and magnesium in the water. I have not read anywhere that it is effective for iron and manganese. I was actually doing a little more research on manganese (not to be confused with magnesium) and iron in the water. There are several ways to remove those minerals from the water but they all seem like costly whole house filtration systems, some are aerators with filters, ion exchange and oxidation ect. All which I really dont understand. But I saw oxidation and I wonder if oxiclean oxygen action would help with the dingy gray manganese build up in my inserts or not. Im just kinda rambling and thinking out loud.

Hmmm..... i just found this

Problems Caused by Iron and Manganese in Household Water

Neither iron nor manganese in water present a health hazard. However, their presence in water may cause taste, staining, and accumulation problems.

Because iron and managanese are chemically similar, they cause similar problems. Iron will cause reddish-brown staining of laundry, porcelain, dishes, utensils, and even glassware. Manganese acts in a similar way but causes a brownish-black stain. Soaps and detergents do not remove these stains, and the use of chlorine bleach and alkaline builders (such as sodium carbonate) can actually intensify the stains.

Iron and manganese deposits will build up in pipelines, pressure tanks, water heaters, and water softeners. This reduces the available quantity and pressure of the water supply. Iron and manganese accumulations become an economic problem when water supply or softening equipment must be replaced. There are also associated increased energy costs, like pumping water through constricted pipes or heating water with heating rods coated with iron or manganese minerals.

For Iron and Manganese, you can use an inline water filter, and they are pretty cheap and easy to install. You just put a filter on your water line, and it filters out the mineral particles. It will be hard for you, because you will have junk in your pipes at this point, but when you get a new water heater, getting a filter before it will help prolong the life of the new heater.

And, as you read in the info above, using chlorine bleach, which is strongly alkaline, and washing soda, which is weakly alkaline, helps the manganese stick to your laundry. There is a product called "iron out" and others for laundry that will help get that out of your wash. They are acidifiers.

For something as sensitive as diapers, I would want to use the Iron out as a prewash, and then wash as usual, just to make sure you have neutralized the acid water as much as possible so there is no acidic water left on the diapers to irritate.

And, you can still use Borax....as it works differently than washing soda, and has a bacteria killing effect on your wash. I did not research it's affect on manganese, so you can look that up just to make sure there is not some strange reaction there too, but it is not the same thing as washing soda, so may still help with killing stink in your diapers.

Also, dont forget that you can always boil problem diapers and inserts manually.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:50 PM   #1000
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

I used RnG when DS was in diapers and had lots of problems with ammonia. No matter what was suggested that I use, I would still have issues with ammonia off and on. He has since potty trained and now I'm worried about what is going to happen this time around. I dont want to go back to RnG, but I dont know what to try. Should I get a detergent like Tide and add washing soda or something? Our water is pretty average. Please help me come up with a plan before baby #2 gets here!
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