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Old 02-17-2011, 07:18 AM   #981
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

Laundry updates, experiments and observations.

Ok yesterday I was doing my diaper laundry and noticed that I could open my washer after it was filled for the wash cycle. (cuz the water level is so low it doesnt lock the door) So I stuck my thermometer in (this was after I added 4 quarts of 150-160 degree water) and it read 108 degrees and this was a "hot" wash. I just have to point out that my water heater sucks

Also I did wash with some tide the other day liquid 2x f&C filled half way up to the 1 line. The diapers except for a few of the night inserts smelled clean. I did run one extra rinse than I normally do. All seems fine with the diapers, but the night ones still smell kinda of funky. And the more soap is left behind in the night diapers the worse they smell so over all not much difference than my normal routine with 1 tbs of RnG . When I rinse the inserts in the sink i can still see soap coming out but this time there wasnt enough left to make a major impact of the absorbency of the diapers. No leaks, which is good.


One other observation I made the other day and Im not sure what to make of it. I have purchased a few used diapers off of here and all of the fleece inners and inserts seem whither and fluffier than mine. This could be because the were used for a shorter period of time not sure. Optical whiteners can account for the whiter appearance. But what really got my attention was when I went over my friends house and looked at her bamboo baby diapers. I had one that I had used for a while. It started out supper soft and fluffy but after the first wash it got kinda hard, kinda stiff, it lost its fluffy soft feeling. It softened up a little with each washing but no where near as soft as hers was. We both tumble dried ours too. (I know when I air dry natural fibers they are stiff as a board.) She has a new born a week old so the diaper has been washed and used a few times. Is there some thing up with my water? My washing routine? Whey are my diapers kinda dingy and not fluffy even after a month or two of use? I just don't get it. My friend lives a few towns over and she said she has town water that is hard water and she is using Tide f&C. I have well water, I know it is high in iron and manganese but as far as calcium goes its not really very hard. Any body have some input on this?

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Old 02-17-2011, 07:29 AM   #982
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahR. View Post
Laundry updates, experiments and observations.

Ok yesterday I was doing my diaper laundry and noticed that I could open my washer after it was filled for the wash cycle. (cuz the water level is so low it doesnt lock the door) So I stuck my thermometer in (this was after I added 4 quarts of 150-160 degree water) and it read 108 degrees and this was a "hot" wash. I just have to point out that my water heater sucks

Also I did wash with some tide the other day liquid 2x f&C filled half way up to the 1 line. The diapers except for a few of the night inserts smelled clean. I did run one extra rinse than I normally do. All seems fine with the diapers, but the night ones still smell kinda of funky. And the more soap is left behind in the night diapers the worse they smell so over all not much difference than my normal routine with 1 tbs of RnG . When I rinse the inserts in the sink i can still see soap coming out but this time there wasnt enough left to make a major impact of the absorbency of the diapers. No leaks, which is good.


One other observation I made the other day and Im not sure what to make of it. I have purchased a few used diapers off of here and all of the fleece inners and inserts seem whither and fluffier than mine. This could be because the were used for a shorter period of time not sure. Optical whiteners can account for the whiter appearance. But what really got my attention was when I went over my friends house and looked at her bamboo baby diapers. I had one that I had used for a while. It started out supper soft and fluffy but after the first wash it got kinda hard, kinda stiff, it lost its fluffy soft feeling. It softened up a little with each washing but no where near as soft as hers was. We both tumble dried ours too. (I know when I air dry natural fibers they are stiff as a board.) She has a new born a week old so the diaper has been washed and used a few times. Is there some thing up with my water? My washing routine? Whey are my diapers kinda dingy and not fluffy even after a month or two of use? I just don't get it. My friend lives a few towns over and she said she has town water that is hard water and she is using Tide f&C. I have well water, I know it is high in iron and manganese but as far as calcium goes its not really very hard. Any body have some input on this?
For the temp of the water, forgive me if you've answered this before but could the washer be adding cold water as well as hot (I've read about some washers that do that for some odd reason). I know some just unplug the cold water input for diaper washing, is that a viable option for you?

Do you have a water softener? If so could it be not working well or in need of a salt refill?

Other than that no new suggestions. :-(

Karen.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:44 AM   #983
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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For the temp of the water, forgive me if you've answered this before but could the washer be adding cold water as well as hot (I've read about some washers that do that for some odd reason). I know some just unplug the cold water input for diaper washing, is that a viable option for you?

Do you have a water softener? If so could it be not working well or in need of a salt refill?

Other than that no new suggestions. :-(

Karen.
I read my manual from back to front and no mention of cold going into the washer. I cant even draw a hot bath for my daughter in the winter time. It is luke warm. And this is filling up a baby bath tub. My tankless water heater is in need of replacing.

We do not have a water softener. Salt water softeners are typically for the removal of calcium and magnesium, I think some have an added water filtration to take out iron as well. I just googled and I think my main problem is the manganese

Warning Signs:

Water that is unclear or hazy looking;
Tap water may also contain a black sediment;
Black stains from water in toilets, tubs, showers and sinks and counters;
Stained laundry

In my husbands shower there is alway black sediment that builds up. I think this could be the source of the dingy looking diapers. They take on a grayish appearance over time. I wonder if that would also cause build up in the inserts and fleece making them less fluffy. The micro swede doesn't seem to be effected as much since there is less for it to grab on to.

Also I remember my husband mentioning the build up of these mineral on our water heater coils that is causing our poor water temperature. A regular water tank I dont think would be affected as much by minerals since it heats the whole tank not just water passing through coils to heat up.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:21 AM   #984
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

SarahR-- have you tried a little bit of Borax with your detergent? It has some water-softening properties, as well as detergent-boosting properties. How it does it, I can't tell you lol. I've been using it as recommended in this thread (we have moderately hard water) and I think it's working pretty well.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:50 AM   #985
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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SarahR-- have you tried a little bit of Borax with your detergent? It has some water-softening properties, as well as detergent-boosting properties. How it does it, I can't tell you lol. I've been using it as recommended in this thread (we have moderately hard water) and I think it's working pretty well.
When I do my normal laundry routine for the most part my diapers are good. Ive just been messing around with other laundry detergents and methods. The dinginess is more a "cosmetic" aspect I dislike. Not sure if it is related to the way my diapers get clean or not or the funky smelly night diapers. Anyway, I have used borax before and there is no noticeable difference except when I used way to much one time (horrible smell...off the charts). The thing with water softeners for laundry is they are salt (sodium) based which is used for calcium and magnesium in the water. I have not read anywhere that it is effective for iron and manganese. I was actually doing a little more research on manganese (not to be confused with magnesium) and iron in the water. There are several ways to remove those minerals from the water but they all seem like costly whole house filtration systems, some are aerators with filters, ion exchange and oxidation ect. All which I really dont understand. But I saw oxidation and I wonder if oxiclean oxygen action would help with the dingy gray manganese build up in my inserts or not. Im just kinda rambling and thinking out loud.

Hmmm..... i just found this

Problems Caused by Iron and Manganese in Household Water

Neither iron nor manganese in water present a health hazard. However, their presence in water may cause taste, staining, and accumulation problems.

Because iron and managanese are chemically similar, they cause similar problems. Iron will cause reddish-brown staining of laundry, porcelain, dishes, utensils, and even glassware. Manganese acts in a similar way but causes a brownish-black stain. Soaps and detergents do not remove these stains, and the use of chlorine bleach and alkaline builders (such as sodium carbonate) can actually intensify the stains.

Iron and manganese deposits will build up in pipelines, pressure tanks, water heaters, and water softeners. This reduces the available quantity and pressure of the water supply. Iron and manganese accumulations become an economic problem when water supply or softening equipment must be replaced. There are also associated increased energy costs, like pumping water through constricted pipes or heating water with heating rods coated with iron or manganese minerals.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:52 AM   #986
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

i have tons of minerals in our water that don't get taken care of with the water softener. I can tell from using the humidifer for one night. Its gets tons of buildup. My diapers stink as well and are not staying white either.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:55 AM   #987
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahR. View Post
I read my manual from back to front and no mention of cold going into the washer. I cant even draw a hot bath for my daughter in the winter time. It is luke warm. And this is filling up a baby bath tub. My tankless water heater is in need of replacing.

We do not have a water softener. Salt water softeners are typically for the removal of calcium and magnesium, I think some have an added water filtration to take out iron as well. I just googled and I think my main problem is the manganese

Warning Signs:

Water that is unclear or hazy looking;
Tap water may also contain a black sediment;
Black stains from water in toilets, tubs, showers and sinks and counters;
Stained laundry

In my husbands shower there is alway black sediment that builds up. I think this could be the source of the dingy looking diapers. They take on a grayish appearance over time. I wonder if that would also cause build up in the inserts and fleece making them less fluffy. The micro swede doesn't seem to be effected as much since there is less for it to grab on to.

Also I remember my husband mentioning the build up of these mineral on our water heater coils that is causing our poor water temperature. A regular water tank I dont think would be affected as much by minerals since it heats the whole tank not just water passing through coils to heat up.
I would try maybe doing a couple of diaper loads at a laundromat or a friend's house or something. Just to test out the idea that the water isn't hot enough.

I'm wondering if maybe all the rinsing you do isn't helping simply because it helps wash away any bacteria still lingering because your water isn't hot enough. I had a similar situation where my diapers just weren't getting clean enough (for me it was lack of detergent, I know that's not your case though). But if I rinsed the heck out of them, they were much much better. Never quite perfect, but better. For the longest time I took this as proof that I was using too much detergent, that those extra rinses helped because they rinsed away more detergent. But I think what was really happening was that the extra rinses were helping wash away more bacteria...

Anyway, just a thought. Not exactly a convenient idea but at least you'd know for sure if it was that the water was too cold, cheaper than buying a new water heater. And if it is the cause, then you can focus on getting the heater as soon as you can and/or other things that could help reduce the bacteria load in the diapers (think disinfectants like Oxy, bleach, maybe natural stuff like tea tree oil...).

And if it's not the cause, well I'm really stumped and that just brings me back to my idea of moving, LOL!

HTH,
Karen.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:08 AM   #988
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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Originally Posted by KarenCmomto4 View Post
I would try maybe doing a couple of diaper loads at a laundromat or a friend's house or something. Just to test out the idea that the water isn't hot enough.

I'm wondering if maybe all the rinsing you do isn't helping simply because it helps wash away any bacteria still lingering because your water isn't hot enough. I had a similar situation where my diapers just weren't getting clean enough (for me it was lack of detergent, I know that's not your case though). But if I rinsed the heck out of them, they were much much better. Never quite perfect, but better. For the longest time I took this as proof that I was using too much detergent, that those extra rinses helped because they rinsed away more detergent. But I think what was really happening was that the extra rinses were helping wash away more bacteria...

Anyway, just a thought. Not exactly a convenient idea but at least you'd know for sure if it was that the water was too cold, cheaper than buying a new water heater. And if it is the cause, then you can focus on getting the heater as soon as you can and/or other things that could help reduce the bacteria load in the diapers (think disinfectants like Oxy, bleach, maybe natural stuff like tea tree oil...).

And if it's not the cause, well I'm really stumped and that just brings me back to my idea of moving, LOL!

HTH,
Karen.
Hahah Have I mentioned your nuts lol!!!! The water heater is a MUST replace item long before we started CD it just a matter of getting around to it, money etc. I will just tough it out and continue my slightly complicated wash routine. I think the hot water issue coupled with my well water is my biggest hurtle preventing me from simplifying my wash routine. The water heater will get replaced one day. Hopefully this year but our shed just collapse under all the snow, in it was our lawn mower and generator, so that is now taking priority. I was also reading that manganese and iron can cause unpleasant smells. Im just trying to figure out fact from fiction and if the minerals in my water are a major or minor contributing factor and what if anything I can do about it. So far I have read about things that make staining worse and filtration systems to fix the problem.


Also another observation. Newer inserts tend to smell better and not have stink over night.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:18 AM   #989
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

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i have tons of minerals in our water that don't get taken care of with the water softener. I can tell from using the humidifer for one night. Its gets tons of buildup. My diapers stink as well and are not staying white either.
How are you doing with your diaper laundry these days?
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:56 AM   #990
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Re: Ok, lets talk about detergent, for once and all.

Sarah-- ok, I can see your issue if it's well water. Wondering if Karen's theory about bacteria is right....Water not being hot enough would make that more of a problem. Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but have you tried Bac-out? Now the borax is something that, like I said, *seems* to be working well for me but truthfully I don't notice a HUGE difference. When I started using Bac-out tho, the difference was night and day.

My issue had been stink...my diapers were just not smelling clean enough out the washer. they still smelled like pee even when I sterted using Tide and HOT water in my washes and rinses. Now I spray Bac-out on most of my dipes before they go in the pail and then use a little in the pre-rinse as well. Night and day difference.
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