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Old 08-12-2010, 09:31 AM   #71
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

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This has been an interesting thread! My first two kiddos were both girls so we never had to think about it, but I'm pregnant (due in Oct) and we aren't finding out the gender, so circumcision could be an issue. Somewhere along the line I realized that it was an optional procedure but since it was never an issue before I never brought it up with my hubby.....I figured that he would be for it (he is circ'd) and I didn't want an argument. Recently I brought the subject up and was really, really surprised that he was very open minded and didn't have a strong conviction either way. We have decided to do more research before making a decision.

I have extremely mixed feelings about the whole thing. It makes me nauseous to think about cutting up my newborns peeny. I think the argument is made that they are so little, they won't feel anything but I think that's crap....they feel it, and it hurts. I don't want to willing hurt my child. I don't like the history behind circumcising, it's cruel and idiotic (like removing a little bit of skin is going to keep a man from wanking off! ) and I don't like that we're doing something to another human being who has no say in the matter.....and it's not like it's a small decision, we're cutting part of their body off. On the other hand circumcision is what I know. I've seen a few non cicr'd and honestly I don't like the look.....not that a penis is very attractive, but I like the look of a circumcised one better. Also, I do worry about the hygiene issues....I have no idea what goes into keeping a non circ'd peeny clean and healthy and I've read that they are more susceptible to infections. The last issue for me is that my husband is circumcised and I worry that if we have a son, he will feel different. From his dad, from his peers etc. and I don't know what the emotional implications of that would be.

Just like any other parenting decision, circumcision is a personal thing and it shouldn't be taken lightly, I just don't know what the right decision is! And it's really hard to do research because there isn't any unbiased info out there. Just like with the vaccination decision....there is either information that is pro vaccines that all state how terrible it is not to vaccinate and there is anti vaccine info that state how terrible it is to vaccinate and what the ramification can be. It's hard to find true unbiased statistics and sound reasoning.

If anyone has any sites or text that they found to be especially helpful in their decision making process I'd love some referrals! I'm running out of time and need to make a decision, and in the mean time I'm kinda hoping for another girl!

Gina
I wanted to circ my son but my husband didn't. I thought (based on what my mom told me since I've only ever been with my circ'd husband) that an intact penis was ugly. I didn't really even think about whether or not the baby would feel it, I just knew that circumcision was "normal" and I wanted my baby to be normal. Fortunately my husband held his ground and we did not circumcise my son. I got over it very quickly because it was part of him. It wasn't gross or ugly, it was just part of my baby. And without sounding crude, you don't need to be attracted to the look of your son's penis. If your husband is circumcised and you like it that is fine but you don't have to worry about whether or not your son's penis is attractive. Personally, my son is now 7 and when I ever do see his penis I never even give it a second thought because it is just a part of him.

Secondly, the main thing to remember when trying to make the decision is that intact is normal, it is the way it was designed and I think it was designed that way for a reason. If you choose to allow your son to remain intact (which at this point I no longer think it is the parent's choice at all) then there is no harm done. If a problem develops you can weigh your options and still have the circumcision done if that is really the only thing that will fix it. If you choose to have your son circumcised at birth and something goes wrong there is no way to fix it. You can't put it back on after you take it off but you can take it off later if you have to.

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Old 08-12-2010, 09:44 AM   #72
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

Hygiene is pretty simple for an intact penis - basically you leave it alone. Wash off the surface in the bath, but you never need to retract and clean under the foreskin. Here's the AAP's statement on it:
http://patiented.aap.org/content.aspx?aid=5211

UTI's may be more common during the first year of life for an intact boy, but they're pretty rare in boys anyway. A lot of people think the hygiene is a big deal before they actually experience it. Really, it isn't.

As for the 'different from dad' worry, I guess I don't think that makes much sense when you really think about it. Are your two girls troubled by the fact that they don't look just like you? Would you have them altered so that they do? I guess it seems more like a teaching moment - that everyone is different, and that's okay if it does ever come up. And it's not like the same circ status means they'll look the same anyway. DH and DS are both intact, but don't look alike at all.

Really, I'd guess that if dad and son are comparing penises, that a young child is going to notice other things first - like hair and size. And I'm not sure it really matters in the long run anyway - does your DH remember what his dad's looks like? My DH has two younger brothers and didn't know whether or not they were circ'ed. Must not have left much of an impression when he was a child.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:44 AM   #73
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

Here is David Wilton's take on the report.
http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/20....html#comments

I Have trouble believing the stats, as the numbers dont seem to add up. and as PP mentioned it seems more people are opting for circ after discharge (Canada does this right now, I believe it has a 9% rate of circ before discharge and a total of 30% circ rate after that). And I dont believe we will ever get an accurate rate of non-consenting circumcision of minors as there will always be older children circ'ed for bogus 'medical' reasons. Either way, I am a bit wary to use the 33% stat, myself.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:22 PM   #74
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

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Originally Posted by ursaminor View Post
Here is David Wilton's take on the report.
http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/20....html#comments

I Have trouble believing the stats, as the numbers dont seem to add up. and as PP mentioned it seems more people are opting for circ after discharge (Canada does this right now, I believe it has a 9% rate of circ before discharge and a total of 30% circ rate after that). And I dont believe we will ever get an accurate rate of non-consenting circumcision of minors as there will always be older children circ'ed for bogus 'medical' reasons. Either way, I am a bit wary to use the 33% stat, myself.
What I got from reading the whole report on the 33% rate, is while it is considered the largest study on circumcision in the US, it was done using insurance claims forms? So, how many surgeries insurance paid for, right? That would make that statistic as unreliable as those done just on the surgeries done in hospitals I also got from the article that it was a BAD thing the rate as declining! As much as I want to believe it, I just don't.

I would go with the CDC's "estimate" of 43%. That's better than what it has been, and it does seem reasonable. I know many parents are informing themselves and choosing NOT to cut their sons. There is still a long road ahead to change generations of misinformation and damage, but at least its a start!
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:12 AM   #75
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

Thanks for gently responding to my post! I understand that some of the pro circumcising feelings I have aren't based on anything other than what has become normal in society. I'm definitely feeling like circumcision is not something that I want to do. Now I just have to make sure that hubby is on the same page!

Reference links would still be helpful if anybody has them?!?
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:25 AM   #76
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

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Originally Posted by geetabean View Post
Reference links would still be helpful if anybody has them?!?
I recommend this one a lot:
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/preg...rcumcision.htm

It is from the Canadian Paediatric Society and gives a statistical breakdown of the risks of circumcision and the potential benefits. I really wish the AAP would put together something similar as well. I like this one because it is simple and straightforward, and sticks to the medical aspect.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:56 AM   #77
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

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Originally Posted by geetabean View Post
Thanks for gently responding to my post! I understand that some of the pro circumcising feelings I have aren't based on anything other than what has become normal in society. I'm definitely feeling like circumcision is not something that I want to do. Now I just have to make sure that hubby is on the same page!

Reference links would still be helpful if anybody has them?!?
Thymos, a peer-reviewed journal recently concluded that 117 babies die a year from circumcision. To put that into perspective- 117 deaths from circumcision complications, 115 from SIDS, 44 from suffocation, 8 from auto accidents

http://www.mensstudies.com/content/b...8cb2d308f&pi=5

http://www.icgi.org/2010/04/infant-c...ch-year-in-us/

This thread has some good info and resources:
http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/...d.php?t=119362
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:03 AM   #78
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

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One of my friends just shared that cirumcism rates fell from 56% in 2006 to 33% in 2009. Keep spreading the word because it is working. A majority of boys are now intact. I was so happy to hear this I shared it on facebook. I usally stay away from topics like that but I am so stoked. Link is below

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/news/bo.../220621/1.html
YAY WE LOVE OUR INTACT LITTLE BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 08-13-2010, 09:15 AM   #79
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

I wanted to add my experience with the whole 'looks like daddy' issue.

Before our second son was born, then 4 y/o DS1 was in the shower with his circ'ed daddy. It was nothing new, we aren't incredibly shy around here, but for some reason he noticed that he and Daddy looked different. He got pretty upset that they didn't look the same and we tried to gently explain circumcision, how he and Daddy would look more alike when he was retractable and that he and Daddy looked different in lots of ways.

Still upset he told us that wasn't his concern. He was sad that Daddy's "freckles" were so big and his were so little, and wanted to know when he would get big "freckles" too.

Dh was worried about the 'look like daddy' thing and didn't want our boys to feel that there was something 'wrong' about themselves. Taking testicle size out of it, it still wasn't as big a deal as DH had dreaded.

J also wants Daddy's pretty blue eyes rather than my brown ones, but I'm not going to go get him contacts KWIM?
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:30 AM   #80
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Re: Circumcism rates are dramatically falling

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Originally Posted by JackandSamsMom View Post
I wanted to add my experience with the whole 'looks like daddy' issue.

Before our second son was born, then 4 y/o DS1 was in the shower with his circ'ed daddy. It was nothing new, we aren't incredibly shy around here, but for some reason he noticed that he and Daddy looked different. He got pretty upset that they didn't look the same and we tried to gently explain circumcision, how he and Daddy would look more alike when he was retractable and that he and Daddy looked different in lots of ways.

Still upset he told us that wasn't his concern. He was sad that Daddy's "freckles" were so big and his were so little, and wanted to know when he would get big "freckles" too.

Dh was worried about the 'look like daddy' thing and didn't want our boys to feel that there was something 'wrong' about themselves. Taking testicle size out of it, it still wasn't as big a deal as DH had dreaded.

J also wants Daddy's pretty blue eyes rather than my brown ones, but I'm not going to go get him contacts KWIM?
that is so funny!
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