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Old 12-28-2010, 11:38 AM   #21
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

[temper tantrum on] What BS and an ignorant doc. I would love to talk to him and ask him how he sleeps at night. Seriously doctors need to get more education on bf and stop telling mamas such BS. Argh....[temper tantrum off]

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She is still hungey after one side. She comes off and goes back on and comes back off and fusses until I put her on the other side. I alsways start a feeding on the side she had last...does that make sense?

And thank you all for the wonderful advice. This is DD 2nd Pedi!! I've got an appt with another pedi next week! I hope she is what I need
How is she after both sides? Do you think she would like to get back on the fist side to get more? Her "weight issue" (that is not really an issue if it doesn't happen on a consistent basis) can come from STTN and not feeding as often if this is something recent. I would feed her more often during the day and make sure that she is draining the breast well so she gets the yummy hindmilk Then I would offer the first breast again.

There are cases when mamas are not producing milk but this rarely happens and it doesn't sound like it's an issue in this case. This is an issue of an ignorant and bf-uneducated doc.

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Old 12-28-2010, 01:48 PM   #22
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

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[temper tantrum on] What BS and an ignorant doc. I would love to talk to him and ask him how he sleeps at night. Seriously doctors need to get more education on bf and stop telling mamas such BS. Argh....[temper tantrum off]



How is she after both sides? Do you think she would like to get back on the fist side to get more? Her "weight issue" (that is not really an issue if it doesn't happen on a consistent basis) can come from STTN and not feeding as often if this is something recent. I would feed her more often during the day and make sure that she is draining the breast well so she gets the yummy hindmilk Then I would offer the first breast again.

There are cases when mamas are not producing milk but this rarely happens and it doesn't sound like it's an issue in this case. This is an issue of an ignorant and bf-uneducated doc.

Sometimes she fusses after the 2nd side and I put her back on the 1st side but she sucks for a couple seconds and fusses somemore so I give her a binky and she doesnt complain again.
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:58 PM   #23
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

Remember growth spurts. Do not give her a binky, keep alternating sides until she is satisfied.

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/growth-spurt.html
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:06 PM   #24
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

Sometimes my DD has to switch back and forth three or four times, especially during growth spurts. Instead of the binky, try just switching her back and forth until she's turning away completely. If you really think she's not eating enough, you could also try expressing at night since she's sleeping so long - then give her a bottle instead of a binky when she drops of the breast. Many babies will drain a bottle even after finishing at the breast.

Just remember - percentiles are a bell curve: some babies have to be in the 15th percentile to make it work!

Also - even the doctor who graduates last in his class gets to be a doctor...
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:12 PM   #25
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

Oh yeah. If you really think she is not getting enough then keep alternating sides and after she is done pump for 10 mins. both sides. You might not get anything out but it will stimulate your body to make more.
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:13 PM   #26
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

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Sometimes my DD has to switch back and forth three or four times, especially during growth spurts. Instead of the binky, try just switching her back and forth until she's turning away completely. If you really think she's not eating enough, you could also try expressing at night since she's sleeping so long - then give her a bottle instead of a binky when she drops of the breast. Many babies will drain a bottle even after finishing at the breast.

Just remember - percentiles are a bell curve: some babies have to be in the 15th percentile to make it work!

Also - even the doctor who graduates last in his class gets to be a doctor...

so true!
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:32 PM   #27
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

Okay, this is going to sound WAY off the wall, but have you checked to make sure she's not tongue tied? This can interfere with a baby getting a proper latch since their tongues can not go out as far as they should. Most pedi will check for this at birth, but I heard recently about one of my SIL's charges not being diagnosed with a tied tongue until she was NINE months old.. the mother went through some pretty severe downs thinking she was a failure. Clipping the tongue to correct the tounge tied condition sounds horrible and inhumane but you're doing your child a favor, because it can cause severe speech delays down the line, and of course it would allow a better latch and breastfeeding relationship.

The next question I'm gonna ask is if you checked her uvula and if it's abnormally shaped.. like if she's got a heart shaped or two smaller ones or soemthing that's not the normal punchbag shaped uvula. This is indicative of a condition called Bivid Uvula, which is caused by the incomplete fusing of the hard palate.. basically a child with a Bivid Uvula was ALMOST born with a cleft palate, but it eventually fused; just later in development than it's supposed to and stopped fusing after a certain point; the fusing stopped at the uvula. Unfortunately due to the malformations of the palate; a baby with a bivid uvula will not have a successful time breastfeeding because the proper development of the roof of the mouth is essential to get a good suction on the nipple. There's an ultrasound of a baby at the breast somewhere online, and in the video you can see that the nipple/areola goes all the way to the back of the baby's throat nearly to their uvula (or at least it did to me); and if there's any issues with the roof of the mouth even if they are not visible, the proper suction will not happen. This condition doesn't just effect the baby's ability to latch properly.. due to the physiology of having this condition will also lead to inner ear problems such as hearing issues and chronic ear infections.

I ONLY made this connection solely based on the fact that my friend adopted a newborn baby with a SEVERE cleft palate -the birth parents abandoned the infant at the hospital, calling it a monster and said the baby should be killed- and she was telling me due to the cleft palate, it affected how her eustacian tubes formed.. the baby was born with SEVERE hearing loss and while she's had tubes put in, they were told she's never going to have proper hearing; this lead to me helping another friend make the connection between her daughter's deafness at birth and her Bifid Uvula.. they were told it's genetic like having red hair and it's perfectly okay.. which the baby obviously wasn't. My friend had pretty severe PPD after having her baby, and this actually helped her PPD go away.. realizing it was beyond her control and NOT HER FAULT. She had to take her daughter to an ENT to confirm that what I told her in fact was the cause for her daughter's deafness and that it was interfering with her ability to breastfeed. She got mad at her pediatrician for not realizing the connection.. but it's one of those situations unless you knew what it was and had seen it before... you're not going to know exactly what's going on.

The physiology of having a bifid uvula depending on the severity would indicate that while it looks normal in front of the uvula, the development more often than not behind the uvula is more consistent with what you'd see in a child with a cleft palate. My SIL casually mentioned that my nephew was born with a heartshaped uvula, and for reasons unknown -at the time- she was not able to breastfeed him beyond 4 months.. and when I explained to her what the heart shaped uvula was called and what comes along with having that condition, she promptly said, "Oh so I'm not a complete failure at breastfeeding then?" I should add that my nephew started having chronic ear infections around the age of 4 months, had tubes put in his ears at 6 months and is on his second set at the age of almost 4. A bifid uvula will not always cause extreme hearing loss, but it will usually result in the child having chronic ear infections.

Of course, your daughter could be perfectly normal and just small... my younger daughter is like this and she NEVER showed any indication of malnourishment at all, so my doctor just said as long as she was not dehydrated or showing other signs of failure to thrive then everything would be okay. Hopefully the new pediatrician works out for you.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:41 PM   #28
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

First of all, I would want to make sure that her growth curve is being assessed on the World Health Organization growth charts rather than the old CDC charts many doctors still use.

Second, I would try extra feeds like others suggested, but if you do resort to supplementing, look into using a supplemental nursing system to stimulate milk production at the same time.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:57 PM   #29
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

go with your mommy instincts, and if they do nolt align w/ what the ped told you, question whether you'd be able to trust his advice in the future...
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:26 AM   #30
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Re: The doc said I need to supplement...sigh (sorta long)

Just wanted to let you know your not alone in small babies. My ds is 8months and not quite 16lbs. I know how hard it is to question yourself and fall into the myths that many pecs perpetuate. I did it with my second dd who was a sloooow gainer and I'm trying to really trust myself and ds this time around.
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