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Old 01-04-2011, 01:00 PM   #21
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

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First, it seems like you are not getting good help or advice.
Great post by mommaagain - I'd quote the whole thing but you don't need to read it twice. I second all her thoughts though.

I wanted to just add that a SNS is only effective for a baby who is *able to latch.* If your LO is unable to latch effectively, the SNS will not do you any good as the tubing is very small and milk only really flows through it when it's being sucked out. I'm wondering if your baby is tongue-tied. Unfortunately this is grossly under-diagnosed by doctors, especially if it's a "hidden" or posterior tongue-tie. Is there any way you can get him in to see an IBCLC for an opinion on this? Some hallmarks include visible frenulum (beneath the tongue), tongue cupping up at the sides, inability to extend tongue past gumline, clicking sounds while nursing (breaking suction) and crease down the center of the tongue.

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Old 01-05-2011, 08:43 AM   #22
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

Don't give up! If you have to supplement with formula in a bottle I would but keep pumping to keep your supply. DS wouldn't nurse at all for the first 4 weeks. I pumped and bottle fed and had to supplement. Now at almost 6 months he refuses the bottle and only wants to nurse.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:32 AM   #23
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

Hugs to you mama! I've been there - I know it's hard - but don't give up!!!

PPs are right - you should be pumping about 8x/day - really any time you would feed your baby. If your baby latches, great! If not, pump. And pump after each feeding.

It also sounds like you are having a milk ejection problem with your breast being full but not letting down. Remove (as best as you can) any and all stressers. Get some Rescue Remedy. Relax when you nurse or pump and don't stress about what is or is not coming out.

There are so many things that can help you with your supply. Natural galactagogues include fenugreek, blessed thistle, milk thistle, alfalfa, goat's rue. You can eat lots of oatmeal, drink unfiltered beer, and be sure to stay away from things like peppermint and sage, which will dry you up. If none of that works, you could try a medical remedy like domperidone (I take 4 pills 4x/day - the max dose).

PPs had an excellent point about checking for a tongue tie. You can do an internet search for what a tongue tie would look like - and it's so easy to get clipped when they are this little bitty.

I wish you had access to a Lactation Consultant - sounds like you could benefit from an appointment with one!

And the SNS is a great thing...your LO may be upset (arching back and not latching well) if there is not immediate gratification (milk), and the SNS will 1) help this situation and 2) get good stimulation at the breast.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:50 AM   #24
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

Where are you at in Germany? Maybe I can talk to my local BF moms group and see if anyone knows of someone who can help you. Also, I can give you the contact info for the lactation consultant here on base if you want and she may have some resources for you.
Don't give up! You can do this!
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #25
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

This site has good information about new thoughts on breastfeeding. http://biologicalnurturing.com/video/bn3clip.html

More info. http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/blog/...-breastfeeding

Last edited by Oakleaf; 01-05-2011 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:35 PM   #26
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

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Where are you at in Germany? Maybe I can talk to my local BF moms group and see if anyone knows of someone who can help you. Also, I can give you the contact info for the lactation consultant here on base if you want and she may have some resources for you.
Don't give up! You can do this!
I am just outside of Heilbronn.

I asked my GP today if they had lactation experts here and she said that the hebammen (widwives) do that here, unlike the US they do aftercare. The doctor said I can look up on the internet for a midwife specializing in breastfeeding issues so I plan to do that. I also saw that there is a LLL Germany, though they are not in my area, but you can write in to them with questions.

I increased my pumping to every 3 hours today and most times it pumped equal amounts. The right breast expressed much better today.

I have not had any luck getting him to latch on today, he should be waking up to eat soon and I planned to give him a bit of the bottle and then try him on the breast and then give him the rest of the bottle if needed. I stressed to my husband that it is really important to me to try and breast feed him each time he is hungry.

The midwife suggested offering him a bit so he is not so ravenous. He has latched on a few times in the past few days, but it seems like he is still eating the normal amount after, so I think he is more suckling. In the hospital they said in addition to the sucking issue he was not swallowing. Also when he does latch on he is only on the nipple itself, he is not latching on to the whole areola. I saw that medela made some nipple forms that you can put on 30 minutes before breast feeding to perk up the nipples as an alternative to the sheild, I was thinking of trying that. The baby seems to really hate the sheilds and he often chews on the end.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:55 PM   #27
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

Pretty much every bit of advice that I thought of when reading your post has already been given, at least once, by a previous poster, but I just wanted to let you know that my daughter and I had a very rough start - very little latching, exclusive pumping for about 6 weeks, etc - but we stuck with it and, at 26 months, are still going strong!

You can do it, and it will be worth it. Hang in there, Mama!
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:50 AM   #28
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

I went o pumping every 3 hours yesterday 10 minutes a side and this morning I filled a full medela brest milk storage container for the first time I am at about 100g now and still got 5 minutes to go.

He did latch yesterday and there was milk in the contact sheild so I think he got some, but he still ate the full normal amount afterwards.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:22 AM   #29
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

Babies eat alot more with a bottle then they would with the breast. that is why he is still eating just as much with the bottle plus he is growing. My son had Tounge tied and it hurt like heck for me. but once they clipped his tounge it was alot less painful. it took us about 3 weeks after his tounge clipping to get the first GOOD latch, he was 5 weeks by this time. now he is almost 11 months and we BF with no supplementing till about a month ago. YOU CAN DO IT. also i have a SNS from medela and i used it under the breast shield as i had flat nipples. and the THERASHELLS medela sells to bring out your nipples work good (i used them myself).
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:52 AM   #30
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Re: Please help my baby wont breast feed and midwife says to give up :(

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I have not had any luck getting him to latch on today, he should be waking up to eat soon and I planned to give him a bit of the bottle and then try him on the breast and then give him the rest of the bottle if needed. I stressed to my husband that it is really important to me to try and breast feed him each time he is hungry.

The midwife suggested offering him a bit so he is not so ravenous. He has latched on a few times in the past few days, but it seems like he is still eating the normal amount after, so I think he is more suckling. In the hospital they said in addition to the sucking issue he was not swallowing. Also when he does latch on he is only on the nipple itself, he is not latching on to the whole areola. I saw that medela made some nipple forms that you can put on 30 minutes before breast feeding to perk up the nipples as an alternative to the sheild, I was thinking of trying that. The baby seems to really hate the sheilds and he often chews on the end.
I do not agree with giving him the bottle and then nursing him. The bottle is a much faster flow than the breast, the baby actually has to work to get milk out of the breast. Babies do not have to work to get fluid out of the bottle, they suck, then the bottle sprays out. With breastfeeding it is more like suck suck suck suck they are nursing the milk let down, then they suck some more, and you will hear swallowing. But with bottles you obviously hear swallowing right away because the milk/formula comes right out without work.

You should try to breastfeed him before he actually is showing clear signs of hunger. Babe should be feeding from the breast before he is crying for food. When he looks alert, and is rooting you should be putting him to the breast. Allowing him to spend ample time at the breast suckling, nuzzling, and drinking. If he isn't super hungry he will be more patient spending time with the breast. If he is getting frustrated try to calm him down and then attempt to latch him on again. But I wouldn't give him the bottle as a way of calming him down, because the bottle is going to provide INSTANT milk. Then he will become frustrated when going back to the breast that the milk isn't just flowing out like the bottle did. So after you calm him down attempt to latch him on to the other breast. If he is getting really frustrated or he seems like he is uninterested in nursing anymore but still shows hunger cues then give him the bottle.

How much are you giving him in the bottles? How much of the bottle is he actually drinking? About how much is he eating per day?

I think you need to make an appointment with the ped ASAP. If he was having issues with swallowing you want that to be looked at right away. Or do you mean he was not swallowing at the breast?

If he wasn't swallowing at the breast it could be because your milk had not came in yet, or that he wasn't latching on properly thus not extracting the milk out properly.

He shouldn't be sucking on the nipple he should have the areola in his mouth as well. Here are some videos about latching on that can really be of help.
http://www.drjacknewman.com/video-clips.asp

You can also try searching for latching on videos on youtube as well.

In order to have a proper latch you need him to open his mouth up wide, basically as if he was yawning, that is how big you want it. Then you will bring the baby to the breast, and allow him to latch on.

Here are some pictures of proper latch







This is an improper latch, because the baby is only on the nipple.

Latching only onto the nipple can cause significant pain, and baby will not be effectively draining the breast. Which can lead to decrease in supply, and weight loss from baby.

Hang in there momma you can do it!
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