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Old 06-05-2011, 04:46 PM   #21
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

"the cut God was asking for was just that a cut - you wouldn't have had to separate anything and that whilst we are called to observe the laws - becasue it is so specifically mentioned as one that should no longer be observed, and that there is a ceremony that rabbi's will perform that does not require a cut. That many Jews are happy with this decision and she onbviously isn't happy which is why she is so demanding - also that from what I've read i don't think it would be considered safe to give her baby enough aneathesia to really counteract the shock and pain. She looks as if she is really struggling and could be persuaded that Christinas do not need to do this - just as we do not need to sacrifice sheep and calves any more. "

Many Jews in Europe don't cut...

Also for more info: wholenetwork.org

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Old 06-05-2011, 06:51 PM   #22
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Other than a plastic surgeon, any doctor who regularly attends continuing education to learn updated techniques and has a chance to use those skills is who you want.

I am jewish but we live in the boonies (no local mohelim) so our son was circ'd by a local ped who met those requirements.

She did an excellent job. I was expected to stay (I didn't have to ask). She have DS tylenol, an anesthetic, and pain killer afterwards. He did very well. I was impressed.

We said the prayers later at home.

Good luck!
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:09 PM   #23
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

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keysersoze, I don't mind you asking at all! I think most Christians do believe what you mentioned (Jesus did away with the Old Testament, created a New Covenant and new teachings), but we believe that Jesus was a Jew and that when Christianity formed, it was originally more of a sect of Judaism than a new religion. I believe that most early Christians observed Torah to some extent and I believe that God created Torah for a purpose, not as a legalistic list of rules that were impossible to follow. I believe it helps us to better understand Him and His plan for our lives. As far as which parts of Torah we observe, we are still exploring this. We observe many of the festivals of the Old Testament, we abstain during my menstrual period, we eat kosher, etc, but I'm still learning and growing and not "set" in my ways with much of this.

Regarding circumcision, this thread has reaffirmed my thoughts about whether we should consult with a urologist. I think that will be my first step (and I'll see if my pediatrician will give me a referral if necessary), and I will ask the urologist about the plastic surgeon as well.

The annoying thing is that right now, DH just graduated and is job hunting, so I have no idea where we will be living by October when our son arrives. I'm trying to plan ahead, but I can't actually do a consult with a urologist until DH gets a job.
I don't have any advice, but I wanted to say that we are not Jewish either, but we keep the biblical feast days too. We also try to keep torah, and eat biblical kosher. We don't have any boys, but if we did, I would either keep them intact or do the research you are doing about brit milah. So, I'm pretty sure I understand where you are coming from, and I'm interested to see what you find out, in case we ever have any boys.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:18 PM   #24
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A Jewish man's perspective

swedishmaiden -

I see from your signature that you're vegan. I'm vegan too.

I presume that for you, as for me, the decision to be vegan comes from a deeply felt compassion for all lifeforms.

I know you said that you made your decision already, but I hope that in the spirit of compassion you will reconsider.

I'm a Jewish man. I was "circumcised" as a newborn. I consider "circumcision" to be a euphemism. Part of my penis was cut off, and I had no say in that.

I know you said that you had already carefully considered this, but there are two things many parents don't consider:

1. The many functions of the male prepuce ("foreskin").

Did you know that it grows to fifteen square inches on the average adult? That it can comprise up to half of the total penis skin? That it contains more than half of the total nerves in the penis and the most sensitive ones.

There's lots more info about this online. Here is one good place to start: www ZZZ .noharmm ZZZ .org/anatomy.htm (Remove the "ZZZ"s from the middle)

2. Whether or not the parents have any right to make that choice.

I don't want to be too confrontational or disrespectful, but I'm a survivor of genital cutting that was imposed on me, that I never wanted.

When you think critically about it, why did my parents have any right to take this choice away from me?

It's not their penis, and they don't use it. It's MY penis, and I'm left with the result of what they did for the rest of my life.

This is a body modification which can always be done later but can never be undone.

So I urge you to look in to your heart and ask yourself if that's really something you could do - to permanently remove a normal and healthy part of your son's body without his consent.

I'll close with a link to an article by another young Jewish man who feels completely raped and violated by what was done to him:

"An Open Letter to Mohel Michael Henesch"

blog.shealevy ZZZ .com/2011/05/17/an-open-letter-to-mohel-michael-henesch (Remove the "ZZZ" from the middle)
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:21 PM   #25
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Yeah, scratch that urologist suggestion of mine. I didn't think of a plastic surgeon, but have heard of this being done. They don't care how much gets taken off, will get paid the same no matter what, and they will know how to do it with minimal scarring, etc. But if you do see a urologist, just speak your mind! Most pediatricians and urologists that cut a lot off, do so because they don't want parents complaining and spreading word around the doctor gave their son a "bad circ". If they know you want the circ done loosely, I'm sure they would oblige to your preference.
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:40 PM   #26
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

Yes, several posts are making me re-think the urologist idea. I would think they have less experience circumcising than a pediatrician...especially when it comes to circumcision of infants (as opposed to adult circumcision due to health problems later in life)? I'm leaning more towards talking this out with our pediatrician for now, finding out his perspective and how he typically circumcises, and feeling out his response. I wonder if I would need a referral to a plastic surgeon or not. I'm a little scared of how much that might cost, but I would rather have this done minimally and pay for it than regret how it was done.

Abe_Haim, I appreciate your thoughts. I am very sorry that your experience was a painful one, but please know I am seeking to do what is best for our son and asking God to guide our decision. I very much want to make a choice that he (our son) will be happy with...but I also know men who wish they had been circumcised as infants, so I think it's more complicated than that. I am definitely putting a lot of thought into this and don't plan to make a choice rashly.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:05 PM   #27
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

We did it at the hospital at birth. We considered a mohelim but we didn't know when we'd make it home and didn't want to wait till he was older/make it more painful (if we did it later, we didn't get home for 3 weeks and we had other issues so I'm glad we did it then). In hindsight, since I didn't pick the doctor or hospital, I would have had it done elsewhere but we didn't have a chance to plan given we only had a few weeks "notice" we might become parents. We had friends who used a mohelim recommended by their doctor and it was a really good experience. My concern with that route is they aren't a doctor so it worries me for some reason. But, I'd probably use their mohelim if we adopted a boy again and could do it in time. I don't think I'd want a ped. doing it vs. a surgeon as I'd want who ever has the most experience with surgery's so it really depends on where you live/what access to who you have. We had no issues or complications.

**Please ignore the Christian comments that aren't understanding Judiasm ore the new poster who claims conveniently with his first post to be a Jewish male. Do what is best for your child/family.
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:44 AM   #28
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

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**Please ignore ...the new poster who claims conveniently with his first post to be a Jewish male.
I thought this myself. Can't wait to see subsequent posts.
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:32 AM   #29
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

we are debating this in my household as well, you need to ask who actually performs the circ's, at my hospital they do a rotation between the ped's and the OB's and whoever's month it is, is who you get, so for us it could be 1 of 5 people if we choose to have it done.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:45 AM   #30
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Re: Circumcision - several questions, brit milah vs brit peri'ah

We had a homebirth and don't really do the whole doctor thing.... so we found a naturopath (over an hour away) who performed his circ... Probably not the best option for you, but just throwing another option out there.
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