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Old 04-19-2012, 02:37 PM   #121
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

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Originally Posted by jenn.mcc View Post
I'm not sure I agree her refutation is done "handily" though confidently, sure. 9,000 abstracts but only 46 primary studies? That means the over 8,000 of those abstracts were meta, post-hoc, review or otherwise secondary; the types of articles a 2nd year bio student probably wouldnt be allowed to use when writing a midterm paper. As for the reductions in risks for certain diseases/conditions, Rosin never said breastfeeding wasn't healthful, her point was that the change in risk wasn't dramatic. A statistically significant change in the risk of ear infections might be the difference between 3% of kids getting ear infections in a given year and 3.5% of kids. That can be a scientifically significant number, but in terms of actual children it's only 1 less ear infection per 200 kids. And I'm not certain all those studies were properly adjusted for maternal comorbid conditions and soceio-economic circumstances. Low income mothers are less likely to breast feed and their children are more likely to become overweight and develop health conditions... but that may be more economics than breastfeeding. If you do a pubmed search for breastfeeding and risks of diseases, you find a lot of studies that fail to control for many important factors, and come to relatively insubstantial numbers but usually end with pro-breastfeeding conclusions anyway.
i think the reason why its higher for poorer familys not to bf & higher for weathly familys to bf is cuz there is more poor ppl out there then weathly. so the # is gonna b higher in the poor side then the rich. also the weathly can afford nannys to take care of there younger children so they have all the time they need for bfing also they dont reily on both partners working to pay the bills. the poor cnt afford a nanny. they do it all on there own & they need to go bk to work asap or there screwd. so they really dont have the time needed to get a good bf reashinship. i think we need to look more deeply into these things insted of just going by poor against the weathly.
ik alot of ppl on both sides & i see no diff in there kids. i go by what i see from experance. idc what the #'s say
i see it as do what best for your family. if its ff good for u. if its bf good for u. i really dont have a side on this since i feel its a personal decision that each family makes & everybody elese should except the decision the family makes.

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Old 04-20-2012, 08:08 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn.mcc

I'm not sure I agree her refutation is done "handily" though confidently, sure. 9,000 abstracts but only 46 primary studies? That means the over 8,000 of those abstracts were meta, post-hoc, review or otherwise secondary; the types of articles a 2nd year bio student probably wouldnt be allowed to use when writing a midterm paper. As for the reductions in risks for certain diseases/conditions, Rosin never said breastfeeding wasn't healthful, her point was that the change in risk wasn't dramatic. A statistically significant change in the risk of ear infections might be the difference between 3% of kids getting ear infections in a given year and 3.5% of kids. That can be a scientifically significant number, but in terms of actual children it's only 1 less ear infection per 200 kids. And I'm not certain all those studies were properly adjusted for maternal comorbid conditions and soceio-economic circumstances. Low income mothers are less likely to breast feed and their children are more likely to become overweight and develop health conditions... but that may be more economics than breastfeeding. If you do a pubmed search for breastfeeding and risks of diseases, you find a lot of studies that fail to control for many important factors, and come to relatively insubstantial numbers but usually end with pro-breastfeeding conclusions anyway.
Just wanted to quote. You summed this up better than I usually do. I could never have gotten away with this kind of thing in grad school.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:23 PM   #123
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

I am not going to specifically quote anyone, this is more general.

I posted on another thread a few weeks ago and I will absolutely repeat some of the things I posted there.

This is a crunchy board. You need to know your audience. Most of the women on this board who are formula feeding CANNOT breastfeed or it's so intensely difficult for them that they are best not to. This includes adoptive mothers, WOHM mothers who only have the choice to pump in a public restroom (would you like me to prepare your meals in a public bathroom?), mothers for whom EP is just not sustainable, those who didn't produce enough milk, those who had such craziness with mastitis and thrush and everything that it became dangerous, and I could go on.

Know your audience. When you enter a Formula Feeding Support section claiming that women just need to know the facts, and tell them how much breastmilk is better than formula, you are either purposefully or myopically shaming them. Talking about how much breastmilk is better and more important and healthful than formula helps no one who breastfeeds but very much hurts those who formula feed.

This is for Formula Feeding Support. Those of you who are sullying this very sacred and guilt-absolving thread with your postings of breastmilk being superior to formula are completely missing the point. WE KNOW! We (most of us) are here because we hurt and feel guilt and need the support of others who get it.

Don't go to Thrifty and talk about a high six figure salary, don't go to adoption support and tell everyone there you think adoption is not something you believe in, and don't go to Formula Feeding Support and talk about the wonder of breastmilk. It's rude and inappropriate.

Am I being too blunt and overly harsh right now to some of you who genuinely may not know what you are doing? Perhaps. But, this particular thread is very, very important for those who need it. Please respect that. I'm coming out guns blazing here because I want to be explicit that this particular thread is not one to mess with. Too many women here need the support.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:38 PM   #124
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

DS1 was induced at 36 weeks over 13 years ago and born a healthy weight. I had my heart set on BFing but he just would not latch, even the hospital LC tried helping me and while there they put a tube down his nose to give him formula because they were concerned. I went home and tried to nurse without success and after 2 weeks of pumping just wasnt getting anything. I called WIC and they told me to come in to get formula vouchers.

I was young, I had no support at all and so I just went along with it. In hindsight I wonder if i could have made it work considering i had successful extended BFing relationships with my other children. I dont feel guilty, it was the choice i made at the time given the circumstances. I just wish the WIC there was as BF friendly as they are here and now. Had they called me in to use a better pump, or given me a better pump, bfing classes or appts with a LC things could have turned out differently. Im really disappointed that i didnt get to nurse him like i wanted to
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:03 PM   #125
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Caterpillar View Post
I am not going to specifically quote anyone, this is more general.

I posted on another thread a few weeks ago and I will absolutely repeat some of the things I posted there.

This is a crunchy board. You need to know your audience. Most of the women on this board who are formula feeding CANNOT breastfeed or it's so intensely difficult for them that they are best not to. This includes adoptive mothers, WOHM mothers who only have the choice to pump in a public restroom (would you like me to prepare your meals in a public bathroom?), mothers for whom EP is just not sustainable, those who didn't produce enough milk, those who had such craziness with mastitis and thrush and everything that it became dangerous, and I could go on.

Know your audience. When you enter a Formula Feeding Support section claiming that women just need to know the facts, and tell them how much breastmilk is better than formula, you are either purposefully or myopically shaming them. Talking about how much breastmilk is better and more important and healthful than formula helps no one who breastfeeds but very much hurts those who formula feed.

This is for Formula Feeding Support. Those of you who are sullying this very sacred and guilt-absolving thread with your postings of breastmilk being superior to formula are completely missing the point. WE KNOW! We (most of us) are here because we hurt and feel guilt and need the support of others who get it.

Don't go to Thrifty and talk about a high six figure salary, don't go to adoption support and tell everyone there you think adoption is not something you believe in, and don't go to Formula Feeding Support and talk about the wonder of breastmilk. It's rude and inappropriate.

Am I being too blunt and overly harsh right now to some of you who genuinely may not know what you are doing? Perhaps. But, this particular thread is very, very important for those who need it. Please respect that. I'm coming out guns blazing here because I want to be explicit that this particular thread is not one to mess with. Too many women here need the support.


I love the pro-breastfeeding movement in many ways. I love how it's encouraged women not to be ashamed of feeding their babies. I love that my work has a pumping room and encourages moms to use it. I love that it gives new moms the confidence to trust their bodies.

What I DO NOT love about the pro-breastfeeding movement is the way it's made breastmilk into a superfood. I work in pharmaceuticals, and if a drug made the outrageous claims pro-breastmilk people make it would be sued from here to kingdom come! Of course breastmilk is good for babies, so is prenatal exercise and a stress-free vaginal birth. But we don't vilify moms who sit on the couch while pregnant, and we don't make them feel inferior if they have complications requiring a c-section. Just because something doesn't agree with our idea of perfection doesn't make it a bad or wrong decision.

You know what I think is better than breastmilk? A happy mom! When I see a mom who is stressed, upset, in pain, embarrassed, and angry at her body all because of boob juice you know what I think? I think, "That's not good for her baby." Moms and babies deserve to be happy together. End of story.

Mamas who formula feed I am proud of you! You should never, EVER feel guilty about how you feed your baby if it makes you and your baby happy and feel good. Your relationship with your baby is way bigger than a bottle.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:45 PM   #126
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn.mcc View Post


I love the pro-breastfeeding movement in many ways. I love how it's encouraged women not to be ashamed of feeding their babies. I love that my work has a pumping room and encourages moms to use it. I love that it gives new moms the confidence to trust their bodies.

What I DO NOT love about the pro-breastfeeding movement is the way it's made breastmilk into a superfood. I work in pharmaceuticals, and if a drug made the outrageous claims pro-breastmilk people make it would be sued from here to kingdom come! Of course breastmilk is good for babies, so is prenatal exercise and a stress-free vaginal birth. But we don't vilify moms who sit on the couch while pregnant, and we don't make them feel inferior if they have complications requiring a c-section. Just because something doesn't agree with our idea of perfection doesn't make it a bad or wrong decision.

You know what I think is better than breastmilk? A happy mom! When I see a mom who is stressed, upset, in pain, embarrassed, and angry at her body all because of boob juice you know what I think? I think, "That's not good for her baby." Moms and babies deserve to be happy together. End of story.

Mamas who formula feed I am proud of you! You should never, EVER feel guilty about how you feed your baby if it makes you and your baby happy and feel good. Your relationship with your baby is way bigger than a bottle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Caterpillar View Post
I am not going to specifically quote anyone, this is more general.

I posted on another thread a few weeks ago and I will absolutely repeat some of the things I posted there.

This is a crunchy board. You need to know your audience. Most of the women on this board who are formula feeding CANNOT breastfeed or it's so intensely difficult for them that they are best not to. This includes adoptive mothers, WOHM mothers who only have the choice to pump in a public restroom (would you like me to prepare your meals in a public bathroom?), mothers for whom EP is just not sustainable, those who didn't produce enough milk, those who had such craziness with mastitis and thrush and everything that it became dangerous, and I could go on.

Know your audience. When you enter a Formula Feeding Support section claiming that women just need to know the facts, and tell them how much breastmilk is better than formula, you are either purposefully or myopically shaming them. Talking about how much breastmilk is better and more important and healthful than formula helps no one who breastfeeds but very much hurts those who formula feed.

This is for Formula Feeding Support. Those of you who are sullying this very sacred and guilt-absolving thread with your postings of breastmilk being superior to formula are completely missing the point. WE KNOW! We (most of us) are here because we hurt and feel guilt and need the support of others who get it.

Don't go to Thrifty and talk about a high six figure salary, don't go to adoption support and tell everyone there you think adoption is not something you believe in, and don't go to Formula Feeding Support and talk about the wonder of breastmilk. It's rude and inappropriate.

Am I being too blunt and overly harsh right now to some of you who genuinely may not know what you are doing? Perhaps. But, this particular thread is very, very important for those who need it. Please respect that. I'm coming out guns blazing here because I want to be explicit that this particular thread is not one to mess with. Too many women here need the support.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #127
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

I did feel guilty. To begin with... I felt like a failure as a mom. Then I got over it. My son was breast fed all three days in the hospital and he took to the boob like a champ. It came naturally for the both of us. UNTIL we came home from the hospital! The very first feeding at home was horrible! He ripped his face away and started screaming EVERY time I tried to feed him. We both eventually got so stressed out I had to stop. Bottle it was. Every day for two weeks after that i tried and he still refused. All the while I'm pumping. Every time I pumped I could only draw 1/2 oz from BOTH breast (on a good day), 4 oz a day total. my son was eating 2 oz. of formula a feeding at 3 weeks. Pumping is NO fun! I was adding what I could pump to his formula. I eventually stopped pumping as it took FOREVER to get VERY little. I suppose my milk just never came in? (side note: when i dried up... it never hurt) All in all... I was heart broken till it dawned on me... my son is healthy, happy and very much so loved. He wants for NOTHING, is quite smart (I'm sure all moms think that of their child) and has only been sick twice in his 9 months of life (both times thanks to shots). I have gotten every remark and question you can get about me not b****** my son. In the end... I no longer feel any guilt for having a healthy, happy baby.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #128
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

I was upset with all of my children ( i have 3). I tried hard with #1 he was int he NICu so I pumped for 5 weeks. i also had horrible PPD becuase of the the NICU and the breastfeeding. feeling like I wasnt being a good mom. maybe if I BF my baby wouldn't of had a seizure. That's how bad I felt.
#2 I think we would of gotten it down but with no support at home it was very hard to try. I just pumped for 5 weeks also. I felt bad when I stopped pumping.
#3 I BF for 3 weeks it was awesome. Once life started getting busy and fam/ friends weren't around anymore. i couldn't do. My DD was eating out of the garbage/ the dog ran away, My DS had to get on the bus. The baby woudl nurse for an hr . I just couldn't do it. I am still pumping he is 7 weeks. I am starting to dry up.
I am feeling bad and want to nurse him and I do here and there but he just gets so comfortable and doesnt eat. ( he also doesnt eat with me with a bottle very well).

I know my kids/husband and me need a mommy here not in a mental hospital because I am going crazy trying to BF and it not working and the gulit that comes with FF. I No longer care it is my family I dont tell you what to do with your kids dont tell me. I Try not to judge as you never know someone circumstance. i remember someone making a comment to a mom about her not BFing and the mom said well "I had Breast cancer I have no boobs but thanks."
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #129
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Re: Anybody ever feel guilty about not BF?

Yes, I still feel guilty even though there isn't anything I could have done about it.

Once I found out I was pregnant, I was dead-set on having a natural birth with midwives, CDing and EBF. One of the midwives at the birth center I went to told me I had tubular shaped breasts and that I may have problems with low supply later. She suggested I set up an appointment with their IBCLC later in pregnancy if I don't experience any breast changes (which I didn't). At the LC appointment, she confirmed the midwife's observations, telling me I had insufficient glandular tissue and advised me to start taking goat's rue and to have a SNS on hand in case I needed to supplement. I was so very sad to hear this, but was still optimistic and manifesting to myself that I wouldn't need the SNS and things would be fine.

After my daughter was born, she latched like a champ and happily nursed. Once she was two days old however, she wouldn't sleep for more than 45 minutes and insisted on being attached to my boob. At the three day appointment, she lost nearly a whole pound off her birth weight and I was told to start using the SNS and pump afterward to build supply. She didn't mind the SNS at all, but feedings would take almost two hours sometimes, especially after we'd finish and she'd still be hungry. I got to where I hated that SNS, cleaning it was a PITA and I hated how hard it was to get a good latch AND get the little tube in her mouth. On top of all this, we both got thrush from IV antibiotics I had during labor which made nursing her very painful.

Despite me taking multiple herbal supplements, eating lots of oatmeal, drinking lactation tea, and pumping after feedings, my supply maxed out at about 1.5oz every three hours or so. After a few days of struggling with the SNS, one night after feeding my LO for over an hour she began wailing immediately afterward, still hungry! I had enough, broke down crying, and told DH to make her a bottle of formula. She drank the whole thing and fell asleep right afterward, and SLEPT for three hours.

I feel intensely guilty about trying so hard to BF her when she was so hungry and not getting enough. I felt like I had caused her harm and felt like I'd never have the sort of nurturing relationship I'd have if I could EBF. At the time it felt a lot like mourning a death, that's how intense it was for me.

Now that a few more weeks have passed and we've figured out what mix of bottle/breast/pumping works for us, I'm not as upset anymore. You don't have to use a boob to nurture a baby, and I almost feel like I nurture her better when I'm giving her a bottle because that requires more of my attention and both hands. I'm lucky to have a LO who doesn't care how her food is delivered. Sometimes I'll comfort nurse her after she's eaten when she isn't ravenous and we can both enjoy it.

The blessing in this is DH can take a more equal role in DD's care. He's been taking care of the after dinner feeding and some of the night feedings on non-work nights to give me a break. I can tell he's really bonded with her and it's a joy to watch them.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:14 PM   #130
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Nope. Not at all. With that said, my hormones are all out of wack and *could have* affected his body/sugar relationship and predisposed him to sugar issues, so I figure it was safer for me to ff than bf. Of course, he may be predisposed anyway from being exposed to my hormones in the womb, so that could be a load of bs, too. However, I did often envy the bf moms when I was stuck in traffic, out at the mall, or in the middle of the night because they wouldn't run out, mix anything, or need a kitchen. I didn't envy not having to pump at work.
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