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Old 01-02-2012, 08:32 AM   #1
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CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

Dh and a friend were talking during Xmas (same friend who can't believe that DH "lets" me BF our toddler) Well he at DH were talking and DH mentioned A's sleeping issues (still wakes at night sometimes and goes to bed late) and the other dude says "Well you need to just let him cry, I'll bet you haven't even hit the 30 minute mark yet". DH told him that no we didn't believe in CIO and in fact there is evidence that it causes permanent harm to the developing brains of babies. Dude just sneered and said "well I guess My kids will be messed up then since we let them cry but at least we get to sleep" Apparently they have allowed the kids to cry for up to 2 hours.

Funny part is I talked to the Mom later and she says their 3.5 year old has only slept though the night a handful of times and has night terrors frequently (something Dr. Sears believes is often caused by misuse of CIO). It seems that DAD is the only one getting sleep in their family. I also remember that when their oldest was 2-5 they just let him stay up until 2 or 3 am until he just fell asleep.

I just wish ppl who used CIO actually understood that CIO does not mean "lock your kid in a room until he screams himself to sleep hours later".

ETA: I know a lot of ppl here use CIO correctly and I am not picking on them, just bugged by ppl who MISuse CIO.

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Old 01-02-2012, 08:36 AM   #2
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

ugh, that makes me so sad. I just don't understand how parents feel that letting your baby cry and cry and cry is supposed to help them. I guess it works for some, but it's never been for me. IMO, if a baby is crying, especially a young baby, it's because they need something, even if it's just a cuddle.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:37 AM   #3
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Ferber himself has made many public statements about how flawed the method is, and how people aren't even using it properly. My FIL made a comment the other day (I'm still preggo) about how we can't tend to the baby every time it fussed or it'll learn to control us. DH told him that babies communicate through crying and that if his kid was trying to tell him something, even if his kid just wanted affection, that he was going to be attentive to that. :soproud:
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:43 AM   #4
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

Yea, I have the same argument. Because in reality I used/use CIO, BUT if DS is screaming, I go get him immediately, if he is whining or fussing, I might let him fuss for 1/2 minutes. Now DH will let him go 5 minutes of fussing, but I can't do that to him. But if he is visibly upset, and screaming even crying, there is something wrong, and your child does not need to be left alone. There is a huge difference between fussing and crying.
Ex: last night, DS coughed a few times, and whined for a second, cried once, and I went in to check on him, by the time I got there, he was already back asleep.. I sure as heck don't wanna wait a sleeping baby.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:53 AM   #5
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

Now, I don't hover over DD, waiting for her to fuss so that I can comfort her...I think that what "Dude" was talking about is horrible & borderline neglectful. We have, on occasion when DD was overtired, let her fuss (not scream) for up to 5 min.

BUT--DD has had night terrors a few times. They started right around age 1. While there may be some connection to CIO, for our DD there isn't. By the third time she had a terror, we knew it was directly related to DD being up later than normal (falling asleep after 9pm as opposed to normal bedtime between 7:30 & 8 pm). It is easily short-circuited by lightly rousing DD before we go to bed.

No commentary on CIO or not in general, just wanted to point out that night terrors are not always connected to CIO...I just don't want that generalization added to the list of assumptions we make about others on here
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:58 AM   #6
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

I can see how night terrors could be associated with CIO.... (not sayin' every baby who has night terrors was made to CIO - just that I can see a correlation for those that do intense CIO)

I have a friend who does CIO because "she needs her sleep" and I witnessed how she does it the other day for a nap. (She is always saying how great it works and trying to get us to do it... now I've *seen* it and I definitely don't see the "greatness" in how she does it....)

We were at her house (several moms and babies) for a play group and she went to put her 14 mo down for her nap. She just put her in her crib and walked away. Her LO cried and screamed and howled and cried and cried and cried.... FOR AN HOUR!!! Then she went and brought her LO back out to play, saying "well, that was a crap nap!" and she was totally irritated with her little girl. I just wanted to cry... I know she is 14 months old and not 4 months old, but listening to her cry and wail like she did was just heart breaking. Every mom in the play group was giving side-glances at each other, shaking their heads and making sad faces....

I just don't get how that was *teaching* anything other than "I'm the adult and if I want to leave you in your crib for an hour a day, then I will because I say so and I won't come get you, even if you scream and cry, until I want to"....

I wouldn't lock my baby in the closet for an hour while he cried and I don't think most people would, but for some reason, leaving them trapped in a cage, er, crib is totally fine....

Then my friend was irritated because her little girl followed her around the rest of the afternoon like a shadow and whined but if she tried to pick her up or touch her or cuddle, the little girl would scream/cry and push away but she wouldn't leave her mom's side, either. It was so sad.

I took a child development class in college and I remember a lecture on trust vs. mistrust and the four types of attachment.... this was dysfunctional attachment if I ever did see it. But my friend would never see it that way. She really is a good mother in so many other ways and I know she loves her little girl... I just don't get the CIO method. And I really believe in this case (and I hesitate to say this because it sounds so harsh, but....) it is harmful to the child and the parent-child relationship.

We tend to brush a lot of parenting practices off as "well, that's just how they decided to parent but its not for me...." when really, many popular parenting philosophies are borderline abusive/neglectful. I just went to a conference back in March that was centered around this topic - Common parenting techniques that really should be classified as lower levels of abuse/neglect - and it was geared towards medical professionals to raise awareness because we are all becoming too desensitized to it as these philosophies become more and more common and practiced.

Alexander Pope said it this way: “Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, we first endure, then pity, then embrace”. How many people said initially that they wouldn't do CIO but then they do? After so much pressure from those who had done it, they eventually "embrace" the practice.... How many mothers say it was so heartbreaking to hear their child cry and cry but after a few nights, they have embraced the technique and tout it as a miracle cure?

I'm reading a book called "Attached at the Heart" by Barbara Something and Lysa Parker (a recommendation from a Mama here on DS and I really wish more parents would read this book. Its so enlightening!

Like a pp said, Ferber has repeatedly said that people are using it wrong but they just keep doing it, to the detriment of their poor babies....
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:05 AM   #7
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We let dd CIO and she had night terrors everyone I know thinks CIO = leaving the baby in bed until he/she falls asleep. No matter how long it takes. That bothers me. Ds has been crying every time I lay him down but I have no problem with it because it only lasts a few minutes and he just cries because he's mad at me for putting him down lol.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:09 AM   #8
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

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Originally Posted by carriek38 View Post
Now, I don't hover over DD, waiting for her to fuss so that I can comfort her...I think that what "Dude" was talking about is horrible & borderline neglectful. We have, on occasion when DD was overtired, let her fuss (not scream) for up to 5 min.

BUT--DD has had night terrors a few times. They started right around age 1. While there may be some connection to CIO, for our DD there isn't. By the third time she had a terror, we knew it was directly related to DD being up later than normal (falling asleep after 9pm as opposed to normal bedtime between 7:30 & 8 pm). It is easily short-circuited by lightly rousing DD before we go to bed.

No commentary on CIO or not in general, just wanted to point out that night terrors are not always connected to CIO...I just don't want that generalization added to the list of assumptions we make about others on here
Oh no I don't think night terrors mean that someone misused CIO just that Dr. Sears noticed the correlation in his patients between night terrors and ppl who were hard core into CIO. And we all know that correlation and causation are NOT the same thing.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:17 AM   #9
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes View Post
Oh no I don't think night terrors mean that someone misused CIO just that Dr. Sears noticed the correlation in his patients between night terrors and ppl who were hard core into CIO. And we all know that correlation and causation are NOT the same thing.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:53 AM   #10
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Re: CIO does not mean leave your kid to scream for hours

I am not a big fan of CIO. I like to call it fussing it out at our house. there is a big difference between a min. or two of fussing/light crying and then to sleep than crying, screaming with huge tears. That I can not do at all. That means, IMO, there is something more needed. Even if it is just snuggles.

I like to do the bathroom test. If the baby/toddler/older child wakes up during the night and is not outright crying his/her little heart out I go use the bathroom and then go to the room. If they are still crying I go in and comfort if not I go back to bed. It has worked very well for us.

If DH wakes up first he goes in at crying picks up said crying child and brings him/her to our bed for mommy snuggles and goes to the couch to sleep.

Either way has worked very well for our family. Just depends on where DH wants to sleep the rest of the night.
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