Nourishing Traditions Support Thread - March

[tandiwe76]

Hi Mamas,
I'm kinda new to DS and interested in sharing on this topic. I've put a lot of time into reading and researching nutrition. My background: over the last decade shifted from mostly vegetarian, then to 100% raw (with lots of cleanses too) for several years, then to traditional about 3 years ago. Currently I'm getting my master's in Holistic Nutrition.

One thing that I have heard over and over is the importance of bone and mineral broths, but I am surprised to see no mention of them here? Anyone doing them? I make them almost every week, and find them amazing for my family. Plus easy and very frugal. Anyone read/reading Deep Nutrition by Shanahan?

To the milk discussion - an alternative view on raw milk: not all people do well with it. My stepson (now 4 1/2, been his stepmom since just before 2) was given a lot of raw, organic milk by his mom for a long time. She was convinced that it would be the best thing for him. I don't fault her for it, I would have thought that too from reading the pro raw milk info out there. However - he had frequent sinus congestion, would get deep lung congestion with every cold, and had a bumpy rash on his bum which can be indicative of allergies and other digestive disturbances. Also important, he's Type O blood, and Type Os typically have the worst time with dairy of all the blood types. Short story is, we got him off milk after three different docs (DOM, Kines., MD) tested him as allergic to dairy. Since then, no bad lung stuff, and he doesn't sound stuffed up when breathing at night. But the rash persisted, and now he's on a candida cleanse (with his mom too, she's also Type O). Finally, after years of trying to clear it up, the rash is gone! My guess is the dairy threw off his digestive flora balance early on (dysbiosis), along with weakening his immune function and probably creating inflammation in the digestive membrane, which then doesn't function as well as a barrier to unwanted particles entering the bloodstream.

I'm writing this not to turn anyone off raw milk - I love raw dairy (especially goat yogurt, yum!) and as a Type B do great with it - but to let anyone know who might be having problems that dairy is not necessarily good for everyone. I would recommend allergy testing if you have any concerns. And/or, take the person/child off dairy for a few weeks-month, see any differences, and then try some again and see what happens.

Hope this wasn't too long for my first post here, just wanting to share our experiences in case anyone else can benefit!

[kismetbaby]

tandiwe--I see you're in Alb, I grew up there boy do I miss green chile!

Just wanted to post and say hi. I'm a vegetarian, so it may seem odd for me to be here, but I've been attracted to NT lately and would love to incorporate as much as I can within a veg diet. I'd really like to start with sprouting all my grains, although as a mom of 2 under 3 my kitchen time is already limited and I'm hesitant to add more to my plate (so to speak). But I've been thinking I needed to work on my diet for a while now. .. I eat really healthy by most standards, lots of fresh, organic, local fruit and veg. But I feel like something is "off". And then I had a small stroke 2 months ago and I can't help but think it could be related to levels of inflammation, which brings me back to my diet. Probably my biggest problem right now is an addiction to sugar.

As for NT, this is baby #2 that is sensitive to dairy (in my milk), so don't know if I can incorporate that element yet.

Any advice for a newbie with these restrictions?

[tandiwe76]

Kismetbaby - Nice to hear from another green chile fan! I've lived here 12 years and really enjoy this area. The weather has been glorious this spring, in the 70s and 80s already and everything is blooming : )

One thing that's great for inflammation is supplementing with Omega 3's - there are some vegetarian options. Omega 3's do all kinds of good things in the body, and could be useful to you. Make sure you're eating enough 'good' fats in general - a lack of fats in the diet usually means people fill themselves up with carbs/sugars, which causes insulin resistance in the long run and all kinds of health problems. Maybe that's part of the cycle you are in.

Are you seeing an alternative health practioner who could help you with figuring out the cause of the stroke and holistic solutions? Having a stroke must be scary, and I'm sure you want to avoid any future problems. PM me if you want to discuss further.

[kismetbaby]

Thanks for the response Tandiwe! I have been taking fish oil actually, never did as a vegetarian, but after my stroke my MW (I had a stroke at 39wks pg) brought me the Green Pastures Fermented Cod liver oil supp and I really felt that my situation called for it so I took it and I feel it helped. I need to find a good alt healer for my continued recovery. . .I may PM you for more advice.

I tried the soaked oatmeal from Nourished Kitchen and LOVE it! We love oatmeal around here and that was even better than my normal preparation. I'm gonna try the baked oatmeal soon too. I want to sprout some lentils this week--I've never tried it before, but I rely on legumes and grains quite a bit as a veg and I am feeling like I need to optimize there value and digestibility for me.

I know I'm a newbie, so this is all probably boring to you guys. . .but thought I'd share anyway. Been watching the youtube videos of Sarah Pope.

[tandiwe76]

Kismet,
Don't need to apologize, I bet everyone is coming from such a different backgrounds that its really useful to hear everyone's situation.

I was all raw and mostly veg for a few years (with some raw fish, dairy). I lived in a raw food household with other folks and we made everything - kraut, pickles, miso, kefir, almond milk, dehydrated everything, sprouted everything, raw gourmet, simple raw, raw desserts, raw up the ying-yang! We really went for it. I was juicing, doing green smoothies everyday, doing serious cleanses, hydrotherapy, infrared saunas, etc. Some things would probably gross or freak some people out so I won't even go there!

I feel that raw/veg is a good cleansing diet and that I really renewed my body, cleared out decades of regular food debris, and shifted my metabolism in a great direction. My body type changed, and became healthier and more balanced. However, I did start having PMS symptoms and other hormonal issues. I got skinny too, I would say underweight. I know some people might think that's great thing, but I didn't feel STRONG, and that bothered me.

I then started researching the building diets like Nourishing Traditions, with emphasis on traditional meats, grains, veg, dairy...it is "real" homecooking IMO. I also researched blood type and its effects on body chemistry and metabolism. What I came to, for me, as a scandiavian-germanic blood type B person, is that a varied diet of mostly protein and veggies is ideal. Occasional fruit, occasional grains (very few, mostly quinoa or sprouted breads), some dairy (mostly goat), occasional treats (using the 80/20 rule).

Its taken a couple years, but I was able to put back on healthy weight, feel stronger, and my hormones are finally coming back into balance. I think that's because a veg diet tends to be low in good cholesterol and fats which are needed to create hormones. Now I eat about 50% of calories from fats (I know, shock!) and am 5'6" and weigh around 120. I am muscular enough to work for hours shoveling in the garden, do yoga classes, bike around town, and I actually do have extra weight on my hips. But I figure that just makes me more fertile (we're starting TTC!) so that's great.

If you are veg, I would highly recommend using a high quality multivitamin and maybe see a good holistic practitioner for a recommendation based on your diet and health history. Actually, IMO everyone needs a quality multivitamin now because the nutritional content of foods is so much lower than 50-100 years ago, even if you eat all organic.

Hope I'm not rambling on too long, but one last thing I wanted to mention is to avoid the very bad combination (in almost all prepared foods) of polyunsaturated oils and sugars. That is coming out now in the newest research as possibly the cause of many of the modern illnesses like heart disease and diabetes.

NT quote: "During the sixty-year period from 1910 to 1970, the proportion of traditional animal fat in the American diet declined from 83% to 62%, and butter consumption plummeted from 18 lbs per person per year to four. During the past eighty years, dietary cholesterol intake has increased only 1%. During the same period the percentage of dietary vegetable oils in the form of margarine, shortening, and refined oils increased about 400% while the consumption of sugar and processed foods increased about 60%" (pg 5). During this same period heart disease and diabetes have skyrocketed.

Interested to hear more ideas/opinions/experiences!

[kismetbaby]

For the first time in my 10 years as a vegetarian I've been feeling a bit conflicted about that choice. My ideals/ethics about animals is still strong, but my ideas about healthy eating have really been challenged lately. I think having a stroke at 36 and feeling a lot of stress piling on (raising two young children and all) and not feeling as strong as I used to sent me on this new quest. . .and I've found myself reading a lot about NT. I've been very aware of diet/alt med/etc and have eaten very healthily for these past ten years, but there is always more to learn and of course my body and my situation are changing as I age. So not sure where this all is leading me yet.

I do take good quality supplements. Have for a while, but really got more into that with my MW this last pg. Have not convinced DH to take any yet.

Thanks again for sharing tandiwe. . .always nice to hear about someone else's journey.

[Almacham]

Can I join you guys? I've been coming back to this thread time and time again. I've really been leaning towards this diet for myself and my children. I've been really worried about my 5 year old son - he's the only one of my children who is very picky, and his diet is, I'm embarrassed to say, crap. I don't know where or when I went wrong with DS's diet but he will only eat a few things and particularly loves processed/sweet junk food. My three girls are the total opposite and aren't picky at all - they readily embrace new things and healthy options.

Wish me luck, ladies! I know the girls will do well, but it will be an uphill battle to change my son's diet around.

[3 ladybugs]

Originally Posted by tandiwe76 NT quote: "During the sixty-year period from 1910 to 1970, the proportion of traditional animal fat in the American diet declined from 83% to 62%, and butter consumption plummeted from 18 lbs per person per year to four. During the past eighty years, dietary cholesterol intake has increased only 1%. During the same period the percentage of dietary vegetable oils in the form of margarine, shortening, and refined oils increased about 400% while the consumption of sugar and processed foods increased about 60%" (pg 5). During this same period heart disease and diabetes have skyrocketed. Interested to hear more ideas/opinions/experiences!

That is interesting about how you came to this diet. I don't think I could do more then I am doing but I am nudging us a bit more when I can.

I have seen that quote before. My DH has his PhD in biochemistry and until recently was a scientist for pharma/biotechs (he has had to go to medical writing recently) but ALL of the scientists that he knows working on cholesterol don't believe in the lipid hypothesis. They all see it as garbage science. Sadly though what the pharmas went into wasn't driven by science but was driven by politics. I know we all like to shake our fists at pharma, but honestly there is a lot of politics that goes into decisions like this... as sad as that is.

My RE (reproductive endocrenlogist) tests all of his female patients for insulin resistance first off. That is one of the firsts tests he orders and I would be willing to bet (though I have never asked him for stats) that most of the women he sees have some level of IR. I know I did, and I am thin (about 125 lbs and 5 foot 6 inches when I first went there. I am now up to about 130 lbs.) and that is the only reason that I couldn't get pregnant. Since I have went him and went on his diet (though I am going to fight it a bit this next time because I want real food) he tried to get me pregnant 4 times and succeeded 3 times (miscarriage, infant loss, and living child). I think our diet is making so the increase in fertility treatments is happening younger and younger now. It is really sad and in my mind criminal.

I also blame a bit of my past diet on my cancer, but I don't think I could ever prove that nor would my oncologist agree with me.

Originally Posted by kismetbaby For the first time in my 10 years as a vegetarian I've been feeling a bit conflicted about that choice. My ideals/ethics about animals is still strong, but my ideas about healthy eating have really been challenged lately. I think having a stroke at 36 and feeling a lot of stress piling on (raising two young children and all) and not feeling as strong as I used to sent me on this new quest. . .and I've found myself reading a lot about NT. I've been very aware of diet/alt med/etc and have eaten very healthily for these past ten years, but there is always more to learn and of course my body and my situation are changing as I age. So not sure where this all is leading me yet. I do take good quality supplements. Have for a while, but really got more into that with my MW this last pg. Have not convinced DH to take any yet. Thanks again for sharing tandiwe. . .always nice to hear about someone else's journey.

Have you thought about going out to a farm and seeing the animals that are raise for food there? We get our beef, pork and most of our chicken from a farmer. The cows, pigs, and chickens are all treated humanely and we do feel that there is a level of mutual respect if you will. After watching Food Inc, I am considering going vegetarian when we go out to eat.

Originally Posted by Freedom Can I join you guys? I've been coming back to this thread time and time again. I've really been leaning towards this diet for myself and my children. I've been really worried about my 5 year old son - he's the only one of my children who is very picky, and his diet is, I'm embarrassed to say, crap. I don't know where or when I went wrong with DS's diet but he will only eat a few things and particularly loves processed/sweet junk food. My three girls are the total opposite and aren't picky at all - they readily embrace new things and healthy options. Wish me luck, ladies! I know the girls will do well, but it will be an uphill battle to change my son's diet around.

I don't know how long you have been following this thread but last year when I started this diet my son (now 3.5 years old) took 2 months (solid) to get on this diet. We have been on this diet for about a year now and last summer I had to make him refuse eating at other peoples houses because he had a HARD time coming off of the processed food.

Sugar is a drug. Seriously it is. You have withdrawal symptoms when going off of it. To me that is the very definition of a drug. When your eating a diet mostly of processed foods, your son will CRAVE sugar. Just like someone who is addicted to cocaine or any other drug. If you really want to change his behavior though, you need to wean him off of sugar and onto things you want him to eat. If you go by the idea that "he will eat when he is hungry" he will eventually come around. However if you do decide to do this I would purchase a lot of fruit to make up for that sugar need your son is going to want. My son went hungry a few nights in that 2 month period but eventually he started loving our food and he asked for salad tonight (and ate mostly radishes) and asked for hard boiled eggs and yogurt (raw and from our farmer!) at lunch. So trust me it can be done! Oh and my son routinely says "that is too sweet for me". So you can do this!

Anyone have suggestions on getting FCLO down their child? DS doesn't want it near him.

[Almacham]

Originally Posted by 3 ladybugs I don't know how long you have been following this thread but last year when I started this diet my son (now 3.5 years old) took 2 months (solid) to get on this diet. We have been on this diet for about a year now and last summer I had to make him refuse eating at other peoples houses because he had a HARD time coming off of the processed food. Sugar is a drug. Seriously it is. You have withdrawal symptoms when going off of it. To me that is the very definition of a drug. When your eating a diet mostly of processed foods, your son will CRAVE sugar. Just like someone who is addicted to cocaine or any other drug. If you really want to change his behavior though, you need to wean him off of sugar and onto things you want him to eat. If you go by the idea that "he will eat when he is hungry" he will eventually come around. However if you do decide to do this I would purchase a lot of fruit to make up for that sugar need your son is going to want. My son went hungry a few nights in that 2 month period but eventually he started loving our food and he asked for salad tonight (and ate mostly radishes) and asked for hard boiled eggs and yogurt (raw and from our farmer!) at lunch. So trust me it can be done! Oh and my son routinely says "that is too sweet for me". So you can do this!

Thank you so much for the encouragement!

The good news is fruit is something he does like and is willing to eat. I will stock up on that as I prepare to dive headfirst into this... It's gonna be hard but I know he will benefit greatly from it. I feel so bad that I let his diet go into the toilet like this.

Oh and I've just been following this thread - I haven't looked into any other Nourishing Traditions threads. I'll go dig through and find them - I'm sure I'll get a whole bunch more info there.

Thank you again.

[3 ladybugs]

Originally Posted by Freedom Thank you so much for the encouragement! The good news is fruit is something he does like and is willing to eat. I will stock up on that as I prepare to dive headfirst into this... It's gonna be hard but I know he will benefit greatly from it. I feel so bad that I let his diet go into the toilet like this. Oh and I've just been following this thread - I haven't looked into any other Nourishing Traditions threads. I'll go dig through and find them - I'm sure I'll get a whole bunch more info there. Thank you again.

PLEASE don't feel bad! We all do what we have to do. My son was on a diet like that for a long time because that is what my doctor put me on so I could get over my cancer (had lymphoma and couldn't eat anything fresh, all food had to be processed). So my son ate the same way for a long time. That is probably why it took him so long to convert to the new diet. He was sure we we were going to stop and he could go back to normal.

Also don't feel bad once your family is on this diet if you have something sweet every now and then. We as a family normally have desert at 9 pm (DS goes to bed at 10 pm) every night. Last night it was a chocolate bar that we split between the 3 of us. This is rather typical for us.