Diaper Swappers

kaymurr · 04-23-2012, 01:09 PM

If you have experience I'd really like some input... I have four children, my youngest dd turned 3 last month. We've had our normal up's and down's with the oldest three children, sensory issues, normal tantrums, periods of night terrors, with three kids we've been through the works. But my youngest is something altogether different. Her personality is so disruptive to family life. She is a difficult eater, sleeper, player, pottier (not potty-learned), everything. Basically, she is difficult every second of every day, waking and sleeping. She is explosive, picky, demanding, and literally does not listen to one thing we say. So far as I can tell she has zero innate desire to please us.

This has been going on a solid couple of years. She is also an extreme risk-taker and broke her leg before her 2nd bday. I often say "she is a danger to herself and others" and am only partly kidding. When she was an infant, I was very worried that she didn't smile early enough. I was worried because my own mother is textbook bipolar. I won't even go into it here; suffice to say "textbook." She has however never been treated, as she doesn't "believe" in mental illness (she also doesn't really believe in physical illness in a realistic sense). I've had myself evaluated a few times and been assured I'm not manic. However based on photo evidence and family testimony, I feel confident saying my mom had early onset/pediatric. This applies to one of her siblings as well; the other three are not manic but have all battled depression.

We're a bit at our wit's end with our 3 yo. A year ago both dh and I met with our pediatrician, and were assured she wasn't autistic or "anything." On the contrary she is extremely verbal, and comes off as charismatic and cute but just very "willful" to the outside world. It's not the case though; I know something else is going on here. I know my oldest three sometimes wish it was still just them... it does seem our home life would be so much easier and peaceful again. My dh doesn't know what to suggest, other than maybe seeing a family therapist, but I don't know... I think we may need more intervention. So I guess I'm really looking for feedback if anyone actually has a child with early onset, and what you experienced. Thanks so much~

Sonoran Bloom · 04-23-2012, 01:23 PM

No experience but

. Your little girl is blessed to have a mama like you who notices her for what she may be dealing with rather than just blowing it off as "willful".

mibarra · 04-23-2012, 04:58 PM

If you have concerns please just take her for an evaluation. It will set your mind at ease and give you the answers you need. No disorder, mental or physical, should go without appropriate treatment when available.

kaymurr · 04-23-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mibarra

If you have concerns please just take her for an evaluation.

I'd like to, but feel it's on us to narrow it down at least somewhat as to what's going on... as I said, took her to pediatrician and was told nothing was up, so no referral there. I know there are psychiatrists who specialize in pediatrics, but none I can find on our insurance, and not even any nearby when it comes to looking on my own and paying out-of-pocket... so feel like at this point we're shooting in the dark and would do well to at least have some idea what to "push" for.

Melinda29 · 04-23-2012, 08:00 PM

My DH is a psychologist, so I asked him....He said it doesn't sound like bipolar, although he does not work with kids that young. He definitely recommends a pediatric psychiatrist (not a psychologist). A psychiatrist is an MD so s/he would also be able to look for any physical reason (head trauma, severe food allergies, even hearing loss) that might be triggering her, besides psychiatric issues. Unless your family has some sort of underlying issues, or the older kids are having issues with the youngest, family therapy won't treat the actual root of the issue. It may help you deal with the side effects that her behavior has had on your family, or help with behavioral intervention strategies for you to learn.

If you can get videos of her behavior, offer to email them to the psychiatrist before the appointment so they can see what you are talking about. Keep a log for a week of daily "incidents" so they know what is happening, and how often, with anything you think may have triggered an incident. It can be difficult for a practitoner to diagnose someone based on one appointment, or even a few. Get copies of all health records from the pediatrician to bring to the psychiatrist as well, so they can get a whole picture of your daughter. Try to send all of these things in advance so they can review them before the appointment.

Be sure to emphasize that you have three older children, you know what is normal child behavior. These are more than tantrums or pickiness. Emphasize that her behavior is negatively affecting the entire family. They need to understand this is not just terrible two's.

Many psychiatrists will have sliding scale fees if you ask, since you will have to pay put of pocket. Call your insurance company as well and double check with them about possible providers.

I hope you get some answers soon!

ariandsofiesmom · 04-23-2012, 09:44 PM

Whether you have to pay out of pocket or not, I would take her to a child psychiatrist. I would just call your insurance company (or the psy. office) and just see if they take your insurance. Sometimes you find that they do and they just do not have it on the list.

If you feel that there is an issue, get her evaluated. It will put your mind at ease either way.

mibarra · 04-23-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaymurr

I'd like to, but feel it's on us to narrow it down at least somewhat as to what's going on... as I said, took her to pediatrician and was told nothing was up, so no referral there. I know there are psychiatrists who specialize in pediatrics, but none I can find on our insurance, and not even any nearby when it comes to looking on my own and paying out-of-pocket... so feel like at this point we're shooting in the dark and would do well to at least have some idea what to "push" for.

Actually, that's what a good psychiatrist would do. You tell them your concerns, and they have all kinds of interviews, experience, checklists, and things to help determine what is causing these concerns. It's almost better to come in with nothing more than a list of concerns, because then they can just take those and give you some suggestions and their conclusions, KWIM? It's so hard sometimes, but really the first step to 'push' for is an evaluation. As for the insurance, if they don't have a provider for the service you need, they should be willing to cover an out of network provider as in network. I would give them a call. You may not even need a referral from a ped. Good luck!

Suzi · 04-24-2012, 09:13 PM

I would recommend a child psychologist or even better would be a neuro psychologist to help get a diagnosis. But, you will want to see a child psychiatrist too.

I work in the adult component of our mental health clinic but our psychiatrists often refer the kiddos to the psychologist to get more specific testing. A pscyhiatrist isn't going to spend 1 hour to ask you all sorts of questions and a psychologist will. Neuro psych testing takes around 6 hours (broken up).

it really does depend on getting in to see a good practitioner so try to find some people to ask.

And to get my son's diagnosis I drove 3 hours away. Their clinic wasn't one of our first tier providers but it was still covered. I think I had to pay 20% of the appointment instead of 15%. Not too bad at all. i'd call the hr person for your insurance and they can give you guidance or give you a number for a better person to call. This is not that unusual of a request so they should be able to give you answers pretty quick

PoshPants · 05-04-2012, 10:21 PM

Genetics and or neuro may be good places to start too, see if there is a medical cause

vintagegyrl · 05-05-2012, 01:23 PM

Mama, I know similarly what u r dealing with. mY oldest has these symptoms and has only been diagnosed with OCD but it is not OCD in the ritual sense.
We have had to get very tough with him but also keep strict rules in the house. All the kids are expected to do chores, etc.
but my DS will always be this way. Seeing a therapist will help in terms of you might have someone to talk about these things with - also another person for your child to relate to, but aside from medication you aren;t going to "cure" it. this is what I battled with for so long. WHY is my child like this, etc. HOW can I change him (bipolar is also on my mother's side, etc.)
now that I see similar behaviors in my DD we are just dealing with them. We have rules, like we don't hit or hurt people, we don't scream or yell in the house, etc. When there is a problem I deal with it as calmly as I can. Administer punishment or just a "talking to" as in taking them aside and reminding them we do NOT act this way and it is not acceptable. then if they do it again immediately (defiance) it is punished. (privileges removed, etc.)
sometimes your child is not going to react to this. At least you are doling out the proper punishment and the other children see the rules being enforced.
As your child matures they will be expected as an adult to follow conduct, so better enforce yours now.

Also, as a side note, there is some small research that relates mental instability (maybe not severe) to blood sugar and both my DC seem to have sensitive blood sugar levels. Their BS can get pretty low when they haven;t eaten in a while. I am hypoglycemic (low blood sugar) which means that I process stuff FAST. So have them avoid sugar and balance the meals with protein/carb & fiber. Alo make sure they have a snack about every 2 hours in between meals. even a piece of cheese will do OK (as long as it is has protein) - an apple alone, etc, will NOT work - it will backfire. Its like giving them a dose of sugar, then they crash. they almost have to eat more of a low-carb diet in a sense. If they have dessert, make sure it is immediately after the meal. No dessert by itself but I have found that My kids do OK with ice cream in the afternoon that is full-fat as a treat sometimes on the weekends. the fat seems to slow the absorption of the sugar. DH and I have done countless "studies" of our own to see what works with our kids. it is also possible that removing gluten and food coloring would help. Also adding Fish Oil every day.

Pm me if u want more details mama!

04-23-2012, 01:09 PM	#1
kaymurr Registered Users Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 648 Ratings: 37 Feedback: 100% My Mood:	Early Onset Bipolar Disorder Q's If you have experience I'd really like some input... I have four children, my youngest dd turned 3 last month. We've had our normal up's and down's with the oldest three children, sensory issues, normal tantrums, periods of night terrors, with three kids we've been through the works. But my youngest is something altogether different. Her personality is so disruptive to family life. She is a difficult eater, sleeper, player, pottier (not potty-learned), everything. Basically, she is difficult every second of every day, waking and sleeping. She is explosive, picky, demanding, and literally does not listen to one thing we say. So far as I can tell she has zero innate desire to please us. This has been going on a solid couple of years. She is also an extreme risk-taker and broke her leg before her 2nd bday. I often say "she is a danger to herself and others" and am only partly kidding. When she was an infant, I was very worried that she didn't smile early enough. I was worried because my own mother is textbook bipolar. I won't even go into it here; suffice to say "textbook." She has however never been treated, as she doesn't "believe" in mental illness (she also doesn't really believe in physical illness in a realistic sense). I've had myself evaluated a few times and been assured I'm not manic. However based on photo evidence and family testimony, I feel confident saying my mom had early onset/pediatric. This applies to one of her siblings as well; the other three are not manic but have all battled depression. We're a bit at our wit's end with our 3 yo. A year ago both dh and I met with our pediatrician, and were assured she wasn't autistic or "anything." On the contrary she is extremely verbal, and comes off as charismatic and cute but just very "willful" to the outside world. It's not the case though; I know something else is going on here. I know my oldest three sometimes wish it was still just them... it does seem our home life would be so much easier and peaceful again. My dh doesn't know what to suggest, other than maybe seeing a family therapist, but I don't know... I think we may need more intervention. So I guess I'm really looking for feedback if anyone actually has a child with early onset, and what you experienced. Thanks so much~ Last edited by kaymurr; 04-23-2012 at 01:10 PM.

04-23-2012, 01:23 PM	#2
Sonoran Bloom Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 927	Re: Early Onset Bipolar Disorder Q's No experience but . Your little girl is blessed to have a mama like you who notices her for what she may be dealing with rather than just blowing it off as "willful". __________________ Married to my best friend Mama to E [8/10] and squishy new nursling A [9/12] Why just weather the storm when you can THRIVE?

04-23-2012, 08:00 PM	#5
Melinda29 Registered Users Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,016 Ratings: 27 Feedback: 100%	Re: Early Onset Bipolar Disorder Q's My DH is a psychologist, so I asked him....He said it doesn't sound like bipolar, although he does not work with kids that young. He definitely recommends a pediatric psychiatrist (not a psychologist). A psychiatrist is an MD so s/he would also be able to look for any physical reason (head trauma, severe food allergies, even hearing loss) that might be triggering her, besides psychiatric issues. Unless your family has some sort of underlying issues, or the older kids are having issues with the youngest, family therapy won't treat the actual root of the issue. It may help you deal with the side effects that her behavior has had on your family, or help with behavioral intervention strategies for you to learn. If you can get videos of her behavior, offer to email them to the psychiatrist before the appointment so they can see what you are talking about. Keep a log for a week of daily "incidents" so they know what is happening, and how often, with anything you think may have triggered an incident. It can be difficult for a practitoner to diagnose someone based on one appointment, or even a few. Get copies of all health records from the pediatrician to bring to the psychiatrist as well, so they can get a whole picture of your daughter. Try to send all of these things in advance so they can review them before the appointment. Be sure to emphasize that you have three older children, you know what is normal child behavior. These are more than tantrums or pickiness. Emphasize that her behavior is negatively affecting the entire family. They need to understand this is not just terrible two's. Many psychiatrists will have sliding scale fees if you ask, since you will have to pay put of pocket. Call your insurance company as well and double check with them about possible providers. I hope you get some answers soon! Last edited by Melinda29; 04-23-2012 at 08:30 PM.

04-23-2012, 09:44 PM	#6
ariandsofiesmom Registered Users Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Central Virginia Posts: 1,128 Ratings: 12 Feedback: 100% My Mood:	Re: Early Onset Bipolar Disorder Q's Whether you have to pay out of pocket or not, I would take her to a child psychiatrist. I would just call your insurance company (or the psy. office) and just see if they take your insurance. Sometimes you find that they do and they just do not have it on the list. If you feel that there is an issue, get her evaluated. It will put your mind at ease either way. __________________ Hi I'm Sarah Wife to T and SAHM to Arion (7) and Sofia (5)

04-24-2012, 09:13 PM	#8
Suzi Registered Users Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,659 Ratings: 67 Feedback: 100% My Mood:	Re: Early Onset Bipolar Disorder Q's I would recommend a child psychologist or even better would be a neuro psychologist to help get a diagnosis. But, you will want to see a child psychiatrist too. I work in the adult component of our mental health clinic but our psychiatrists often refer the kiddos to the psychologist to get more specific testing. A pscyhiatrist isn't going to spend 1 hour to ask you all sorts of questions and a psychologist will. Neuro psych testing takes around 6 hours (broken up). it really does depend on getting in to see a good practitioner so try to find some people to ask. And to get my son's diagnosis I drove 3 hours away. Their clinic wasn't one of our first tier providers but it was still covered. I think I had to pay 20% of the appointment instead of 15%. Not too bad at all. i'd call the hr person for your insurance and they can give you guidance or give you a number for a better person to call. This is not that unusual of a request so they should be able to give you answers pretty quick __________________ Suzi, working mama to my ODS(2004), YDS(2006), DSD(2004) and married to the love of my life Last edited by Suzi; 04-24-2012 at 09:15 PM.