View Poll Results: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people don't?
Yes, primarily because of herd immunity. 118 27.83%
Yes, but not primarily because of herd immunity. 24 5.66%
No, but I wish they would. 40 9.43%
No, vaccines are a personal choice. 134 31.60%
I do not vaccinate my children. 85 20.05%
I like polls and want to see the results without answering. 23 5.42%
Voters: 424. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-25-2012, 03:31 PM   #291
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

The problem with saying vaccination is a personal choice is that your choices do not exist inside of a bubble. I have no issues with myself or my (future) children coming into contact with a VPD because we're fully vaccinated. However, infants, the elderly and immunocompromised people are unlikely to be able to be fully vaccinated and that puts them at increased risk. I know that the inevitable response is "I don't make my health decisions based on strangers", and my only response to that is that I am immensely grateful previous generations did not think like that.

I do believe that the only exemptions for public schools (as well as government/public service jobs) should be medical. Yep...I just went there

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Old 06-25-2012, 04:03 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by MyLovely
The problem with saying vaccination is a personal choice is that your choices do not exist inside of a bubble. I have no issues with myself or my (future) children coming into contact with a VPD because we're fully vaccinated. However, infants, the elderly and immunocompromised people are unlikely to be able to be fully vaccinated and that puts them at increased risk. I know that the inevitable response is "I don't make my health decisions based on strangers", and my only response to that is that I am immensely grateful previous generations did not think like that.

I do believe that the only exemptions for public schools (as well as government/public service jobs) should be medical. Yep...I just went there
We don't often agree, but in this case we do.

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Old 06-25-2012, 04:03 PM   #293
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLovely View Post
The problem with saying vaccination is a personal choice is that your choices do not exist inside of a bubble. I have no issues with myself or my (future) children coming into contact with a VPD because we're fully vaccinated. However, infants, the elderly and immunocompromised people are unlikely to be able to be fully vaccinated and that puts them at increased risk. I know that the inevitable response is "I don't make my health decisions based on strangers", and my only response to that is that I am immensely grateful previous generations did not think like that.

I do believe that the only exemptions for public schools (as well as government/public service jobs) should be medical. Yep...I just went there

I can't think of a single decision I've ever made that hasn't impacted someone else at some point. That's life.
To forcibly inject people with something they feel is against their religion and/or unsafe because some of the population feels like it's a good (but not able to be proven) idea.
How would you like it if you had to choose a religion and follow it? Just because you don't have those set of beliefs doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed them. Maybe you should move to a country that is socialist and not founded on freedom of religion... If I didn't believe in the ideals of my country and it would go against the country's constitution to change the laws, I'd move.
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I'm not going to address the rest in depth right now because I need to vacuum, but no one is forcing anyone into any medical procedures. It is your choice to not vaccinate. But, if you are going to go against medical advice and decide that you will not adhere to a public health issue, then that is your choice as well. Sometimes choices have consequences, and if eventually you need to be vaccinated to attend public school or have an actual health waiver instead of just lying, which is what most people do, then that will be a consequence of your choice.

And shortly, as for the other advances being the impetus for disease control and not vaccinations, there have been many charts that show that when vaccines are introduced, disease goes down.

And, asking someone to show you evidence of herd immunity is like my asking you to show irrefutable proof that anyone has ever been injured by a vaccine. With your logic, anyone who claims a vaccine injury may have just ingested tainted water for the day. Or maybe they were not "living healthily?"

I find it frustrating when people claim that healthy living will protect any child from a VPD. By that logic, shouldn't your same healthy living protect any child from any injury possibly resulting from a vaccine?

For the record, I do think that one very, very rare occasions there are vaccine injuries, just as there have been weird occasions where babies have died from breastmilk (remember the vegan trial in France?) No one fear-mongers on vegans breastfeeding.
I never stated that the knowledge learned in the last 50 years will prevent diseases. My children have gotten VPD. Vaccines are not safe, I believe that living in a country with pretty decent health care with the possibility of VPD is safer. I should be allowed this decision. I don't know where I stand on the school aspect since my kids would never attend public school.

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I have to sign and get a copy of the paperwork for each individual refused vax, and exemption. I would imagine a school would want all of those as well? DS isn't school age, though. So I may be incorrect on what they want. If they do, it seems like similar run around, here at least. Annoying though, for sure haha

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From all the paper work I've done, I just had to sign one waiver saying it's against my religion to vaccinate (it is).
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:10 PM   #294
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

No religion, other than Christian Scientist, is outright opposed to vaccination. There are loopholes and stretches to be found in every religion, but opposition to vaccination is not doctrine in any other religion.

I was rabidly anti-vaccination for YEARS. I understand the emotions, the opinions and the views of that particular movement.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:23 PM   #295
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Originally Posted by Jesus_Freak_955 View Post
I can't think of a single decision I've ever made that hasn't impacted someone else at some point. That's life.
To forcibly inject people with something they feel is against their religion and/or unsafe because some of the population feels like it's a good (but not able to be proven) idea.
There will never be enough proof for people who have made up their minds, because that proof will just be dismissed as manipulated numbers manipulated by the powers that be and therefore invalid.

If you'd like to compare religion to vaccines, prove to me that there is a God.

BTW, I do have faith in God. I believe in His existance. I don't find the comparison valid.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:33 PM   #296
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From all the paper work I've done, I just had to sign one waiver saying it's against my religion to vaccinate (it is).
For school, or in general? My ped requires acknowledgement of refusal and provides a copy with my exemption at each appointment we go to where a shot would normally be given. But mine lists each vax on the updated form, so that may be why?

I know when I was in school, even high school, we just needed a copy of the record from the health department. Mine were all listed, and the date I had cpox was on it. There wasn't any run around. I'm sure it's different elsewhere, but it may be the same for exemption as well (just the one paper with the list and reason on it).

ETA: DS's exemption is also medical, though philosophical (while it says online isn't valid here), is an option. At first they put it as philosophical, but after DS's issues were documented it was redone for medical. Maybe that's why the process is how it is for me? I should ask.

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Old 06-25-2012, 05:08 PM   #297
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Originally Posted by Hillargh View Post
For school, or in general? My ped requires acknowledgement of refusal and provides a copy with my exemption at each appointment we go to where a shot would normally be given. But mine lists each vax on the updated form, so that may be why?

I know when I was in school, even high school, we just needed a copy of the record from the health department. Mine were all listed, and the date I had cpox was on it. There wasn't any run around. I'm sure it's different elsewhere, but it may be the same for exemption as well (just the one paper with the list and reason on it).

ETA: DS's exemption is also medical, though philosophical (while it says online isn't valid here), is an option. At first they put it as philosophical, but after DS's issues were documented it was redone for medical. Maybe that's why the process is how it is for me? I should ask.

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My only experience is with school. The school has many that are Muslim and I guess many of them don't vax fully so the waiver is actually included in the enrollment paperwork.
I refused to sign the refusal form and found a new ped that didn't find that form necessary, so I don't really have a lot of knowledge on those forms. HTH

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No religion, other than Christian Scientist, is outright opposed to vaccination. There are loopholes and stretches to be found in every religion, but opposition to vaccination is not doctrine in any other religion.

I was rabidly anti-vaccination for YEARS. I understand the emotions, the opinions and the views of that particular movement.
My church is independent, not to be confused with Independent, it has it's own set of beliefs. They make no statement for or against vaccines. My personal religious beliefs are just that, mine. I'm allowed those beliefs.

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There will never be enough proof for people who have made up their minds, because that proof will just be dismissed as manipulated numbers manipulated by the powers that be and therefore invalid.

If you'd like to compare religion to vaccines, prove to me that there is a God.

BTW, I do have faith in God. I believe in His existance. I don't find the comparison valid.
I was raised by a staunch athiest, so I understand putting my beliefs to the test. I also am forever second-guessing every parenting decision I make, including whether or not I should vaccinate my children. I re-assess with every vacation we go on, every disease my children get, etc. But, even if I decided to vaccinate my children, I believe that choice should be mine, not the governments.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #298
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus_Freak_955 View Post
I can't think of a single decision I've ever made that hasn't impacted someone else at some point. That's life.
To forcibly inject people with something they feel is against their religion and/or unsafe because some of the population feels like it's a good (but not able to be proven) idea.
How would you like it if you had to choose a religion and follow it? Just because you don't have those set of beliefs doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed them. Maybe you should move to a country that is socialist and not founded on freedom of religion... If I didn't believe in the ideals of my country and it would go against the country's constitution to change the laws, I'd move.


I never stated that the knowledge learned in the last 50 years will prevent diseases. My children have gotten VPD. Vaccines are not safe, I believe that living in a country with pretty decent health care with the possibility of VPD is safer. I should be allowed this decision. I don't know where I stand on the school aspect since my kids would never attend public school.



From all the paper work I've done, I just had to sign one waiver saying it's against my religion to vaccinate (it is).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus_Freak_955 View Post
My only experience is with school. The school has many that are Muslim and I guess many of them don't vax fully so the waiver is actually included in the enrollment paperwork.
I refused to sign the refusal form and found a new ped that didn't find that form necessary, so I don't really have a lot of knowledge on those forms. HTH



My church is independent, not to be confused with Independent, it has it's own set of beliefs. They make no statement for or against vaccines. My personal religious beliefs are just that, mine. I'm allowed those beliefs.



I was raised by a staunch athiest, so I understand putting my beliefs to the test. I also am forever second-guessing every parenting decision I make, including whether or not I should vaccinate my children. I re-assess with every vacation we go on, every disease my children get, etc. But, even if I decided to vaccinate my children, I believe that choice should be mine, not the governments.
I very much agree that there should be exclusions from public school for simple religious choice and lying about religion to not vaccinate.

To the first bolded, you can easily flip this and say that if the government, for the greater good of the people and being the majority voice of the people (as the majority of people do vaccinate in this country) made the decision for you, and you must vaccinate -- tough, that's life.

Except, the government doesn't say that. You are indeed allowed to do as you will and follow your religion, but your religion is your choice, and your choices in life have consequences. If you are tied to your religion then you will accept the consequences. This is to the point of your second and third bolded - just because you believe that you should be allowed in public school unvaccinated doesn't mean others believe that, and they are allowed to their opinions, and someday perhaps, to their legislation.

Freedom of religion in this country still has parameters. If your religion involved sexually abusing a child, or sacrificing someone, or marrying vastly underaged girls, you wouldn't be permitted to exercise those facets of your religion. The compromise of allowing people to not vaccinate and then seek out their own schooling because they are not permitted into public school is indeed a compromise.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:08 PM   #299
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My only experience is with school. The school has many that are Muslim and I guess many of them don't vax fully so the waiver is actually included in the enrollment paperwork.
I refused to sign the refusal form and found a new ped that didn't find that form necessary, so I don't really have a lot of knowledge on those forms. HTH
Ah, okay. The approval and refusal are all the same form at my ped. Beyond the liability disclaimer, it's pretty much just check the box for which vaccines, acknowledge you discussed advantages, risks and recommendations of each, and then you check receive, refuse, unsure. So I think select, delay and non all do the same form at that office. Seemed standard enough to me for a sue happy society lol.

How interesting, though! I've never heard of an exemption form coming in with the packet. Thanks for sharing that

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Old 06-25-2012, 07:44 PM   #300
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Originally Posted by MyLovely View Post
No religion, other than Christian Scientist, is outright opposed to vaccination. There are loopholes and stretches to be found in every religion, but opposition to vaccination is not doctrine in any other religion.

I was rabidly anti-vaccination for YEARS. I understand the emotions, the opinions and the views of that particular movement.
What changed your mind?
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