View Poll Results: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people don't?
Yes, primarily because of herd immunity. 118 27.83%
Yes, but not primarily because of herd immunity. 24 5.66%
No, but I wish they would. 40 9.43%
No, vaccines are a personal choice. 134 31.60%
I do not vaccinate my children. 85 20.05%
I like polls and want to see the results without answering. 23 5.42%
Voters: 424. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2012, 08:36 AM   #381
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamabeans View Post
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/page...yimmunity.aspx

Herd immunity is not a myth. Educate yourself on the history of infectious diseases and why you know no one with Polio.



I have very strong feelings about this, but in a nutshell- If your child cannot handle the very small dose of a vaccination (aside of those who are allergic to a ingredient in the vaccine, this is a different story) how would they be with the full blown disease?

So yes, it does upset me. Not for me or my kids who are all up to date, but for those who are unvaccinated or immune compromised. Many people have died from these diseases, history could easily repeat itself.

Not responding to just this post, but this mentality altogether that I'm seeing in this thread. Wish I had time to completely catch up........

But as much as anyone believes in the benefits of science as how it's taught now, vaccines, herd immunity, whatever, I think it's important to remember that we are NOT going to build some disease free utopian community on this earth. Wouldn't it be nice? But it's not going to happen. Death and disease will never be irradicated from the world we live in. Anyone who is paralyzed by fear of unvaccinated population is spending too much time thinking about the dangers there. There are dangers in everything we do, it's part of life.

Personally I think it's far more important to keep our ability to make our own choices than to throw that out in the hopes that herb immunity is real, that vaccines are safe and do the job they claim, and that it will actually have some significant effect on the death rate in the long run. I agree with other posters who have said that a country who forced vaccines on it's population would be a pretty terrifying one. Death and disease are natural facts of life and I'd rather live in a world where we're allowed to take our chances with nature than one where the science community and govt forces it's theories into our bodies. Essentially I do believe forced vaccines would just be one grand experiment on the population. And essentially I think anyone who argues the "anyone who is healthy enough for vaccines should be vaccinated" is saying there should be no exemption other than medical. In discussiong and theory it's fine, but to suggest it be practiced is very, very dangerous IMO.

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Old 07-01-2012, 09:39 AM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainandRedemption

Not responding to just this post, but this mentality altogether that I'm seeing in this thread. Wish I had time to completely catch up........

But as much as anyone believes in the benefits of science as how it's taught now, vaccines, herd immunity, whatever, I think it's important to remember that we are NOT going to build some disease free utopian community on this earth. Wouldn't it be nice? But it's not going to happen. Death and disease will never be irradicated from the world we live in. Anyone who is paralyzed by fear of unvaccinated population is spending too much time thinking about the dangers there. There are dangers in everything we do, it's part of life.

Personally I think it's far more important to keep our ability to make our own choices than to throw that out in the hopes that herb immunity is real, that vaccines are safe and do the job they claim, and that it will actually have some significant effect on the death rate in the long run. I agree with other posters who have said that a country who forced vaccines on it's population would be a pretty terrifying one. Death and disease are natural facts of life and I'd rather live in a world where we're allowed to take our chances with nature than one where the science community and govt forces it's theories into our bodies. Essentially I do believe forced vaccines would just be one grand experiment on the population. And essentially I think anyone who argues the "anyone who is healthy enough for vaccines should be vaccinated" is saying there should be no exemption other than medical. In discussiong and theory it's fine, but to suggest it be practiced is very, very dangerous IMO.
The government has a obligation to keep it's people under control and take measures to keep them healthy. Not "don't buy Mc Donalds or eat after 9pm" healthy, but keeping communicable diseases under control. this is the main reason we have public health depts.
It's not that I want everyone to vaccinate because for as long as I can remember, there's always been 1-2 kids I've known in school who couldn't get fully vaccinated or vaccinated because of a (documented) medical condition.
I see the anti vax community using freedom of choice as the rational more than anything else. This is childish to me.
Maybe if diphtheria made a come back thoughts would shift. I'm sure it's only a matter of a decade before we start seeing it again seeing that the anti vax community is growing.
That being said...

I think it's only a matter of time before a certain set of vaccinations are standardized in our country. A epidemic is the governments problem, we feel and live it, but they are in charge of it. It's only a matter of time before they take precautions. Our government is run by conservatives who take the medical community into account. Like seat belts, vaccinations will not keep everyone safe, may harm some, but will do what they were designed to do for MOST of the population. The rest we cannot control, you are right.
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:58 AM   #383
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainandRedemption View Post
Not responding to just this post, but this mentality altogether that I'm seeing in this thread. Wish I had time to completely catch up........

But as much as anyone believes in the benefits of science as how it's taught now, vaccines, herd immunity, whatever, I think it's important to remember that we are NOT going to build some disease free utopian community on this earth. Wouldn't it be nice? But it's not going to happen. Death and disease will never be irradicated from the world we live in. Anyone who is paralyzed by fear of unvaccinated population is spending too much time thinking about the dangers there. There are dangers in everything we do, it's part of life.

Personally I think it's far more important to keep our ability to make our own choices than to throw that out in the hopes that herb immunity is real, that vaccines are safe and do the job they claim, and that it will actually have some significant effect on the death rate in the long run. I agree with other posters who have said that a country who forced vaccines on it's population would be a pretty terrifying one. Death and disease are natural facts of life and I'd rather live in a world where we're allowed to take our chances with nature than one where the science community and govt forces it's theories into our bodies. Essentially I do believe forced vaccines would just be one grand experiment on the population. And essentially I think anyone who argues the "anyone who is healthy enough for vaccines should be vaccinated" is saying there should be no exemption other than medical. In discussiong and theory it's fine, but to suggest it be practiced is very, very dangerous IMO.
So so true. And yes, it is very scary, and very dangerous! On another note...does anyone else wish this thread would just die already?
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:31 PM   #384
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Originally Posted by jen_batten View Post
So so true. And yes, it is very scary, and very dangerous! On another note...does anyone else wish this thread would just die already?
LOL

No sooner would this one die, then a new one will replace it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:14 AM   #385
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamabeans View Post
The government has a obligation to keep it's people under control and take measures to keep them healthy. Not "don't buy Mc Donalds or eat after 9pm" healthy, but keeping communicable diseases under control. this is the main reason we have public health depts.
It's not that I want everyone to vaccinate because for as long as I can remember, there's always been 1-2 kids I've known in school who couldn't get fully vaccinated or vaccinated because of a (documented) medical condition.
I see the anti vax community using freedom of choice as the rational more than anything else. This is childish to me.
Maybe if diphtheria made a come back thoughts would shift. I'm sure it's only a matter of a decade before we start seeing it again seeing that the anti vax community is growing.
That being said...

I think it's only a matter of time before a certain set of vaccinations are standardized in our country. A epidemic is the governments problem, we feel and live it, but they are in charge of it. It's only a matter of time before they take precautions. Our government is run by conservatives who take the medical community into account. Like seat belts, vaccinations will not keep everyone safe, may harm some, but will do what they were designed to do for MOST of the population. The rest we cannot control, you are right.
Yup. We have never lived through a truly scary epidemic. Even HIV/AIDS is not what it used to be. It's wonderful, but it makes us forget as a society.

That said, I'm all for choice. I'm ok with having a few hoops to jump through in order for parents to exempt their children from vaccines. If that particular choice is truly valuable, then those hoops are more than worth it. I'm also ok with schools (public or private) and the like turning children away if they choose to not vaccinate. I'm surprised I haven't heard of a brick and mortar school that is based on accepting nonvaccinated children though.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:06 PM   #386
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:04 PM   #387
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Is this list to include all the children who were vaccinated but didn't get 100% immunity? What about the kids who have natural immunity? What about all the diseases this child has or has had?

Or, you could just ask a parent about the vaccination status? But that doesn't guarantee that child's immunity anyway...
I don't have immunity to the chicken pox. I've had the disease AND the vaccine, still no immunity. Looks like I'd be a name on that list, so people can avoid me for something completely out of my control. Awesome.

It scares me that someone would even think that a list like that would be ok. No ones medical information should ever be made public.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:13 PM   #388
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamabeans View Post
The government has a obligation to keep it's people under control and take measures to keep them healthy. Not "don't buy Mc Donalds or eat after 9pm" healthy, but keeping communicable diseases under control. this is the main reason we have public health depts.
It's not that I want everyone to vaccinate because for as long as I can remember, there's always been 1-2 kids I've known in school who couldn't get fully vaccinated or vaccinated because of a (documented) medical condition.
I see the anti vax community using freedom of choice as the rational more than anything else. This is childish to me.
Maybe if diphtheria made a come back thoughts would shift. I'm sure it's only a matter of a decade before we start seeing it again seeing that the anti vax community is growing.
That being said...

I think it's only a matter of time before a certain set of vaccinations are standardized in our country. A epidemic is the governments problem, we feel and live it, but they are in charge of it. It's only a matter of time before they take precautions. Our government is run by conservatives who take the medical community into account. Like seat belts, vaccinations will not keep everyone safe, may harm some, but will do what they were designed to do for MOST of the population. The rest we cannot control, you are right.
The obligations of the government are completely subjective to who you are talking to and who is voting, or at least it's supposed to be that way. So I disagree with a couple of your statements just because I like to believe that we still have a choice in this country in terms of the direction we go at this point.
The second statement I bolded kinda blows me away. I can't really imagine what you can mean by it as I firmly believe that nature will bow to no one, besides the mighty hand of God. People can manipulate materials and attempt to "take charge" of natural law, but I don't think man can wrap it's mind enough around what nature is truly capable of, and we will end up with more unforseen consequences of our arrogant fooling around that we will the results we're looking for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jen_batten View Post
So so true. And yes, it is very scary, and very dangerous! On another note...does anyone else wish this thread would just die already?
Me. I hate seeing it has been posted on again in my subsccribed threads but can never resist clicking it.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:12 AM   #389
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

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Originally Posted by RainandRedemption View Post
The obligations of the government are completely subjective to who you are talking to and who is voting, or at least it's supposed to be that way. So I disagree with a couple of your statements just because I like to believe that we still have a choice in this country in terms of the direction we go at this point.
The second statement I bolded kinda blows me away. I can't really imagine what you can mean by it as I firmly believe that nature will bow to no one, besides the mighty hand of God. People can manipulate materials and attempt to "take charge" of natural law, but I don't think man can wrap it's mind enough around what nature is truly capable of, and we will end up with more unforseen consequences of our arrogant fooling around that we will the results we're looking for.

Me. I hate seeing it has been posted on again in my subsccribed threads but can never resist clicking it.
I guess I don't understand. Doctors engaged on a daily basis in attempts to make nature bow to their expertise. I am sure we all are blessed to have loved ones alive because doctors and scientists don't hold to the it's God's Will theory of non-intervention.

The government should just let nature run it's course because it is natural? In that case, shoudl the government pull the firefighters out of the Southwest or no longer require mandatory evacuations in the face of major hurricaines?

Someone on DS frequently posts an old saying about whether or not we should be attempting to utilize our God given skills and talens to manipulate nature. It does something like - a man is stranded on a roof during a hurricaine. A boat comes by and offers to take him to safety and he refuses because he said God will save him. He is also offered help from a passing truck and a helicopter. Each time he refuses because it is God's Will and God will save him. He inevitably dies and when he gets to heaven, he asks God why He didn't save him. God tells him he tried repeatedly - sent him a truck, boat and helicopter.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:08 AM   #390
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Re: If you vaccinate your kids, does it bother you when other people dont?

I was responding specifically to this statement;

"A epidemic is the governments problem, we feel and live it, but they are in charge of it".

It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't see an epidemic as the goverments problem, and I don't think they are in charge of it.

I agree with your post above and I am one who would get on the boat and see it as God's deliverance. However if there is a hurricane on it's way I do not believe FEMA should be able to come in, force people to leave their homes, confiscate property, etc. If people want to stay in their homes and risk their lives it should be their choice.

Basically I believe the US government should do what it was meant by the founders to do, which is protect and ensure our liberties. It was not put into place to make sure we all live comfortably, healthily and happily. Those things are great but those things should be in our hands. When the govt interferes with things people's rights get infringed upon. And I would rather have my life and health in my hands and the hands of God than the govt, and by that I mean I am anti forced vaccinations, pro philosophical exemption. We're not lab rats and we should have a choice and it shouldn't be made difficult to go against the grain. There are plenty of things that can still go wrong with vaccines and I think we should be ready to accept and deal with that should it happen, instead of commiting ourselves to the "assuredness" that they are effective, worth the risks, etc and that there's no potential for negative consequences.

eta~ IMO vaccinations are a lot like GMO foods, in that they have not been used for a huge amount of time and the effects they will have on the human body are hard to know for sure, hard to follow the progression of, and might go largely unnoticed until there is severe and maybe irreversable damage. Also like GMO foods the world community is quick to accept them, not fully knowing the risks involved in commiting future generations to the effects.

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