View Poll Results: Hybrid Diapers?
They're a total ripoff 19 20.88%
They are pricey but I do them anyway 8 8.79%
Cloth is the only way to go if you really care 64 70.33%
Disposable is the only way to go if you look at everything 0 0%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-15-2012, 08:38 PM   #81
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

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Originally Posted by el's mama View Post
Nope. Not sexist. You can choose to take it that way though. I had only seen his 1st post when I posted the above comment. His first post was a huge rant and it really wasn't asking for help, it was asking us to "defend" hybrid diapers. It came off as wanting attention since it was, as he later himself stated "incendiary". I for one wouldn't be falling all over myself if a mom had posted this. I would still find it's tone rude. I'm glad he actually is wanting help and obviously he will receive plenty of it here.
Still not convinced that was his motive! Strange...

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Old 06-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by blakesdad
Hi, we have been using disposable diapers for our 1-week old son. Looking at them, the sheer wastefulness is staggering: not only do we throw away a dozen diapers every day, but those diapers are usually only a little bit soiled in terms of both area dirtied and what they're soiled with (ie urine is not that big a deal).

So, we had this bright idea: use cloth diapers. But it quickly came up that we did not want to be burdened with washing endless poopy diapers just to be less wasteful.

A little research later, and I found the product I thought would solve both problems: hybrid diapers. Less waste, roughly the same amount of work, and - because you're buying a small insert instead of the whole diaper - lower cost. What could go wrong?

Well, as it turns out, hybrid diapers make no sense. Let's take a look at their sorted prices (diaperjunction.com):
Huggies disposable diapers: $.28 each
Flip Diaper inserts: $.31 each
Grovia Biosoakers: $.38 each
gDiaper Biodegradables: $.40 each

The kicker is, of course, that not only are the hybrid inserts more expensive, but there are also other costs, such as the original holding diaper which costs as much as 50+ disposables itself, plus the detergent, water, and other costs of actually using the hybrids.

Now, I ask you, why would I pay more for something which gives me less? Not only is the product literally less material and craftsmanship, but it offers less utility in that I would now be washing the holding diaper and doing the work of putting in and removing the insert, whereas the disposable you just toss. For the privilege of doing more work, and getting less product, I'm going to pay more? That is totally bonkers.

The economics of hybrid diapers are fundamentally flawed.

Cloth diapers, of course, over the long haul are cheaper by 90% than disposable. If you're willing to do all the poopy laundry for ~2 years and assign your labor and sensibility no value, that is. Hybrid diapers, however, are priced so irrationally it's now no surprise that I've never once seen them on the shelves in a store - why would any consumer buy them?

The answer of course is that the product is entirely targeted at "yuppies" and "greenies" and other hypothetical consumers who the businesses in question believe to be devoid of any money sense or who are willing to pay more just to get some vague sense of eased conscience. That's sad really, because as I said, I was initially interested in the product precisely because I am environmentally conscious and wanted to do the right thing. But being ripped off by some company because they think I'm foolish enough to whimsically part ways with my money is insulting.

Inserts should be $.15-.20 each, maximum. I'm looking forward to buying them at that time. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing what possible rational explanation there could be from someone who has actually bought some of these and doesn't consider them a poor deal.

Anyone care to defend this gross fleecing of not only the consumer, but also the planet, by incentivizing us to choose continuing purchase of wasteful diapers over enriching a corporation who believes we will pay them more profit to not have a guilty conscience?
I haven't read all of the other replies because frankly, I am flabbergasted by your ignorance in what things "should" cost, each, maximum.

I am an authorized Gro-Via retailer and I can tell you a lot of the costs involved in making cloth diapers available for purchase are not limited to the laundry list you might have considered.

First, Gro-Via is a small time company that works hard to keep their quality and innovative products in line with what the cloth diapering community wants in a product. Unlike huge corps which have hardly changed the way they made diapers in the last 10 years, cloth diapering has improved LEAPS AND BOUNDS because of companies like Gro-Via and g-Diapers and other "big name" cloth diapering companies. They are the companies they are now because of a mind and an idea, they are not big corporations like P&G or similar. In fact, those small companies that have sold out have quickly diminished in quality and innovation because the cheapest option isn't always the best and small companies know that.

You are pricing pretty much the most expansive option available in cloth diapering. Ever go to a gas station and buy a soda? Notice they are $2-$3? You are PAYING FOR CONVENIENCE. Dont like the idea of washing your kids poop? Don't cloth diaper. Your post was well written so it really surprises me that you are so ignorant in the reality of things.

So I buy your product from Gro-Via. I pay to have it shipped to me. I stock it in my store. I pay credit card or PayPal fees when you buy it from me. I pay to package it. I then pay to ship it to you. Most cloth diapering stores either have free shipping or discounts and that comes out of what we make. All of this happens so we can provide you a product that makes your life easier. And that isn't worth something? As it is, we generally see a couple dollars per sale after everything is said and done. Even if you buy direct from the company, most of these costs are still reality. You also are talking about one of the waviest products they carry. Honestly, that is why when I offer them it is on a special order only because to would rather pay them to drop ship to you than pay the shipping to myself and then to you. At that point, I am paying for you to diaper your child.

The bottom line is simple, if you want to diaper you kid cheap, get prefolds. If you want to diaper conveniently, use disposables. If you want them to meet in the middle, pay for it, or develop your own product and sell direct to customers so you can gain an appreciation for what things should cost, each, maximum.

I am on my phone so forgive mistakes.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:03 PM   #83
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

I have not read the replies here.
It does confuse me how much some of the diapers are, but even non hybrids are way out there.
I do use flips and I like them and I have used gdiapers. I only used the disposable inserts for a short time.
I don't mind diaper laundry at all and I actually felt silly throwing away the liners, that was kind of defeating the purpose of my using cloth, but since the degrade way better than sposies it wasn't as bad.
Let me say I love not having a stinky trash can though
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:18 PM   #84
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

LOL, Sexist?!? I thought the dude was a woman at first and I LOL when I found out it was a man! No offense OP... Just didn't read your avi name correctly I thought it said "bakesbad"

Seriously, I had more poop on clothes and hands changing disposables than hybrids or cloth. That by itself makes hybrids worth it. I prefer cloth diapering over any other system and do it even when I travel.

You're right when you say, make it cheaper and they will come, usually this means cutting corners and using cheap, and possibly toxic materials as most disposable diaper companies have done. However, I found disposable inserts from disposable diaper companies called booster pads, used as doublers for disposables:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS.../chrisficti-20

These still run the same price just about as the grovia or g diaper inserts. It's possible the extra material for tabs on the disposable diaper don't cost anything and it's the stuffing that is the expensive part to begin with. People simply don't buy enough of them to begin with to reduce overall costs.

EDT: Here they are cheaper though:
http://www.healthpursuit.com/diaper_doublers.html closer the disposable diaper costs about 25 cents a piece.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:11 PM   #85
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I agree with you about hybrid disposable inserts, OP. It is basically a bad idea all around IMO. I have used them while traveling but upon reflection, I realized it was more work than disposables and cost more money too. Next trip I plan to buy eco sposies instead. I don't know who in their right mind would use them full time.

Like PPs said, you need to just get over the ick reaction of washing poop. Trust me, it's gonna happen one way or the other!!! Lol. Breastfed baby poop is totally water soluble and washes out very easily, just do an initial wash to pre rinse the poop off, then do a heavy duty main wash to really clean them. Good as new. Cloth diaper laundry is very satisfying. It is cyclical. Each clean fresh load is like the earth renewing itself in springtime.

If you live in a remote area, cloth diapers will be a much more secure and dependable system for you. You never run out. You just do laundry. Easy.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:12 PM   #86
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

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Originally Posted by EskimoStitches View Post
I haven't read all of the other replies because frankly, I am flabbergasted by your ignorance in what things "should" cost, each, maximum. I am an authorized Gro-Via retailer and I can tell you a lot of the costs involved in making cloth diapers available for purchase are not limited to the laundry list you might have considered.

First, Gro-Via is a small time company that works hard to keep their quality and innovative products in line with what the cloth diapering community wants in a product. Unlike huge corps which have hardly changed the way they made diapers in the last 10 years, cloth diapering has improved LEAPS AND BOUNDS because of companies like Gro-Via and g-Diapers and other "big name" cloth diapering companies. They are the companies they are now because of a mind and an idea, they are not big corporations like P&G or similar. In fact, those small companies that have sold out have quickly diminished in quality and innovation because the cheapest option isn't always the best and small companies know that.

You are pricing pretty much the most expansive option available in cloth diapering. Ever go to a gas station and buy a soda? Notice they are $2-$3? You are PAYING FOR CONVENIENCE. Dont like the idea of washing your kids poop? Don't cloth diaper. Your post was well written so it really surprises me that you are so ignorant in the reality of things.

So I buy your product from Gro-Via. I pay to have it shipped to me. I stock it in my store. I pay credit card or PayPal fees when you buy it from me. I pay to package it. I then pay to ship it to you. Most cloth diapering stores either have free shipping or discounts and that comes out of what we make. All of this happens so we can provide you a product that makes your life easier. And that isn't worth something? As it is, we generally see a couple dollars per sale after everything is said and done. Even if you buy direct from the company, most of these costs are still reality. You also are talking about one of the waviest products they carry. Honestly, that is why when I offer them it is on a special order only because to would rather pay them to drop ship to you than pay the shipping to myself and then to you. At that point, I am paying for you to diaper your child.

The bottom line is simple, if you want to diaper you kid cheap, get prefolds. If you want to diaper conveniently, use disposables. If you want them to meet in the middle, pay for it, or develop your own product and sell direct to customers so you can gain an appreciation for what things should cost, each, maximum.

I am on my phone so forgive mistakes.
I think he is totally ignorant of the reality of things because it sounds like it is his first baby. I too was shocked at the cost of cloth diapers. I would never even consider going hybrid diapers because of the cost of the disposable inserts. If those vs total sposies were my option I would have no choice but to do sposies.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:16 PM   #87
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

Op as for the grossness of poop well. POOP happens regardless of age. When my first was an ebf baby and in sposies, she had a poopsplosion in the midst of a diaper change. I got poop in my hair and on my face. It was ALL OVER my clothes. No, cloth woudn't have prevented that, but you have a new baby. It is now time to get used to the PPP, POOP, PEE, and PUKE.

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Old 06-15-2012, 10:17 PM   #88
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

I forgot. Welcome to the circus and congratulations on your new baby.
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:47 AM   #89
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

I did the math on hybrids a long time ago and realized you'd be spending more than disposables. And based on the cost alone, hybrids are silly. But we use hybrids with cloth inserts, so besides the initial cost we are set. The only time we will use disposable inserts (that I got for free) are when we are traveling/camping so we can have minimal laundry.

As for the other factors of manufacturing, environment, laundry, carcinogenics etc... that's another story.

Also remember, disposable diapers are thrown away. You get some good cloth diapers at a decent price, and you'll get to re-sell them in the end. So far I've spent a lot of money on cloth diapers, but I've also sold some as I go. And so far I've earned more money than I spent. Yes that means that minus the utilities cost of washing them, my diapers have been free. Can't say that about disposables.
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:02 AM   #90
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Re: The economics of hybrid diapers is broken

I never really got the point of full-time hybrid diapering. You have all of the expense and inconvenience stocking of disposables, plus you still have to do laundry for the covers.

However, I had used them for two week-long trips to places without laundry machines. The covers I soaked overnight in the sink, then rinsed in the morning. Both times were beach vacations, so we weren't using that many inserts anyway. My son ran around with just a cover on at the beach, only wore inserts when inside. When on the beach, I could just pull out the insert, throw it away, and snap the cover back on. If I had used pure disposables, I would also have had to deal with swim diapers.

I chose the hybrid inserts instead of Huggies because I know that my covers don't leak and the few times I have tried disposables, it was a disaster. An EBF blow-out on a plane could be a real mess. Also, I didn't like the idea of leaving non-compostable disposables in someone else's country.

To me hybrid inserts are how disposables were supposed to be -- use them when it is simply very impractical to lug around cloth.

As for the economics, it's simply that the hybrid manufacturers lack the economies of scale that are available to the huge sposie manufacturers.
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