Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #21
EmilytheStrange's Avatar
EmilytheStrange
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Mountain Home, ID
Posts: 7,418
My Mood:
Re: Really Interesting Article

I understand that society changes and evolves, but these changes impact things. Everything is interconnected.

I don't think the point is that we need to give our 5yr olds a machete to cut the grass, but it's that we would never ever even think about giving a 5yr old a machete to probably even hold.

IMHO, as I said before, it's about expectations. It's not about whether or not children should be milking cows before school, sewing clothes, etc. It's about whether you would trust your child to do any of those things.

and is it the loss of trust or the loss of ability that impacting society? I say kids are still as capable as they were 100yrs ago at most things. They're as capable in Africa or America or where ever. The point is that parents don't think their children are capable of learning things at a young age - we keep them "young" because we underestimate them.

it's not about comparing societies, it's not about deciding which society was better.. that's not how I read it at all. It's simply about how parents percieve the abilities of children.

Advertisement

__________________
SAHM to Magnolia May (09/10) and Luke Russett (04/13) and wife and best friend to my airman.
EmilytheStrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 08:27 PM   #22
isaacsmum's Avatar
isaacsmum
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,054
Re: Really Interesting Article

I was thinking about this article off and on during the day and decided to see if I could get my son to be more self-sufficient. So today my 3 year old hunter-gatherer got his own plate and snack out of the kitchen, put his clean laundry away, loaded up and started the dishwasher. Now, I have to say he was always a toddler who wanted to do and try everything himself, and it is kind of funny how as he's gotten older he wants us to do everything for him. I think I'll continue to push back against that trend.
__________________
Jenifer ~ Cloth diaper lovin' scientist mom to Isaac (09/08) and Evelyn (09/11)
isaacsmum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 09:08 PM   #23
happysmileylady
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,715
Re: Really Interesting Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacsmum View Post
I was thinking about this article off and on during the day and decided to see if I could get my son to be more self-sufficient. So today my 3 year old hunter-gatherer got his own plate and snack out of the kitchen, put his clean laundry away, loaded up and started the dishwasher. Now, I have to say he was always a toddler who wanted to do and try everything himself, and it is kind of funny how as he's gotten older he wants us to do everything for him. I think I'll continue to push back against that trend.
I also had my 3 yr old put away some clean laundry today! And ironically, I didn't even have to teach her step by step where it went, despite never having done it before. She already knew.

Clearly I am underestimating my kid.
__________________
Kim-married to Dan
Mama to Caiti (17), Rae Rae (4), Dani Lee(2), and CJ, born 10/12/12.
Stuff From Kim's Kloset That Special Moment Photography Also come check out Swagbucks with me!
happysmileylady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 09:28 PM   #24
happysmileylady
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,715
Re: Really Interesting Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilytheStrange View Post
I understand that society changes and evolves, but these changes impact things. Everything is interconnected.

I don't think the point is that we need to give our 5yr olds a machete to cut the grass, but it's that we would never ever even think about giving a 5yr old a machete to probably even hold.

IMHO, as I said before, it's about expectations. It's not about whether or not children should be milking cows before school, sewing clothes, etc. It's about whether you would trust your child to do any of those things.

and is it the loss of trust or the loss of ability that impacting society? I say kids are still as capable as they were 100yrs ago at most things. They're as capable in Africa or America or where ever. The point is that parents don't think their children are capable of learning things at a young age - we keep them "young" because we underestimate them.

it's not about comparing societies, it's not about deciding which society was better.. that's not how I read it at all. It's simply about how parents percieve the abilities of children.
I totally agree.

I think, honestly, we can even see it well illustrated in many threads and posts here.

There was recently a thread about a mama who's teen son caused some damage to a friend's property, a few hundred dollars worth. And the mama was just so surprised that anyone would expect the person responsible for the accident to pay for the damage. In addition, she covered the cost and didn't require her teen son, who was responsible for the damage, to cover it.

There was another thread recently about a mama calling CPS on a family where an 8 yr old was left alone to watch a 2 yr old. There were MANY posts that discussed why an 8 yr old wasn't capable of handling anything if something went wrong. When the reality is that an 8 yr old should be more than capable of knowing how to dial 911 and give their address in the event of a fire or other emergency. In fact, I would go a step farther and suggest that an 8 yr old is capable of learning how to do CPR and the Heimlich manuver. I was really surprised at how many parents seemed to think that 8 yr olds were so helpless.

When I was 18, I went to my college freshman orientation on my own. I was the ONLY freshman, truly the only one who went to the orientation day (graduating class was 166, so probably started with 200, probably 100 at orientation day) without my parents. There were two reasons my mom didn't go with. The first was that she was babysitting my 8 month old daughter, the second was that we didn't see a reason for her to go because she wasn't the one going to school and she wasn't the one paying for it. And the people leading the groups...they didn't really know what to do about it. There was NO information there that I couldn't deal with on my own, from dealing with financial aid to meal cards etc (which I didn't need, but it wasn't complicated.) and I had a hard time figuring out why so many students needed their parents there. Many of the students, really, simply weren't paying attention and many of the speakers were speaking directly to the parents, giving the students no real reason to pay attention. It was the first of many experiences illustrating just how non traditional of a student I was.

I do agree that there is a lot less "meaningful" work for kids to do around the house. It's true that few people today need to go out and milk the cows or haul the water from the well to provide drinks for the family. However, there IS meaningful work, I just think so many parents are afraid to give it to their kids. For example, cooking. I wonder how many people would actually allow their 5 yr olds to use the stove and cook the family's meal on the stove. Or laundry, how many people today teach their 4 or 5 yr olds how to actually wash the clothes-sort the colors, load the washing machine, measure the detergent, etc.

As to the idea that "life was hard and childhood was short" for our great grandparents etc. Yeah....cause life IS hard. Life is full of little piles of $#!+ all over. I am not sure that trying to completely hide that fact from our children is a benefit to them.

Quote:
Every generation LOVES lamenting about how horrible and spoiled the next generation is, how they're going to ruin the world, based on a few extreme examples (like this article). Yet we've managed to keep going for 200,000 years with no end in sight.
This is totally true too, I do absolutely agree with that. I think it was Plato in ancient Greece who was saying the same things.

However, I think this article and others like it (tiger mom?) are more about What society is doing to it's kids, rather than how lazy and shiftless the youth of society are.
__________________
Kim-married to Dan
Mama to Caiti (17), Rae Rae (4), Dani Lee(2), and CJ, born 10/12/12.
Stuff From Kim's Kloset That Special Moment Photography Also come check out Swagbucks with me!

Last edited by happysmileylady; 06-27-2012 at 09:35 PM.
happysmileylady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 09:32 PM   #25
jen_batten's Avatar
jen_batten
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,176
Re: Really Interesting Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilytheStrange View Post
I understand that society changes and evolves, but these changes impact things. Everything is interconnected.

I don't think the point is that we need to give our 5yr olds a machete to cut the grass, but it's that we would never ever even think about giving a 5yr old a machete to probably even hold.

IMHO, as I said before, it's about expectations. It's not about whether or not children should be milking cows before school, sewing clothes, etc. It's about whether you would trust your child to do any of those things.

and is it the loss of trust or the loss of ability that impacting society? I say kids are still as capable as they were 100yrs ago at most things. They're as capable in Africa or America or where ever. The point is that parents don't think their children are capable of learning things at a young age - we keep them "young" because we underestimate them.

it's not about comparing societies, it's not about deciding which society was better.. that's not how I read it at all. It's simply about how parents percieve the abilities of children.
Okay, I didn't even read the article. But what you all have been posting about is very intersting. I wanted to pop in and say that my 6 yo has a machete. He loves it. He calls it his "weed whacker." He is very responsible with it, there has never been any injuries, and he always keeps it out of his 2 yo sisters reach because he is very thoughtful and responsible. Both he and his 4 yo sister own their own BB guns.

We are much more old fashioned than most. My kids do meaningful chores like carrying in and stacking firewood, hanging laundry, and taking care of livestock. They understand that no wood==cold house. They help me cook and clean. Both my 6 yo and 4 yo old are capable of making fried chicken by themselves. They've never done it without supervision, but I know that they could. They do all kinds of things. Do they have a childhood? Absolutely! They still have plenty of time for play. They love to ride bikes, play trucks and dolls, and soccer and all the kid stuff. We spend quite a bit of time playing together as a family. We try not to overschedule. I trust my kids to do a lot of things that most parents would not. They have been given lots of guidence and lots of oppurtunity to try things under the watchful eye of a parent. They have proven themselves trustworthy. The average american doesn't have a lot of oppurtunity to do anything of value for himself....how are they supposed to learn responsiblity? It scares me a bit that these are the kind of children who will be in charge soon....

Last edited by jen_batten; 06-27-2012 at 09:35 PM.
jen_batten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 10:51 PM   #26
EmilytheStrange's Avatar
EmilytheStrange
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Mountain Home, ID
Posts: 7,418
My Mood:
Jen, I think you understand it perfectly. Even without reading the article

I dare say that your children exceed your expectations because you have taught them to be responsible and independent. And that's the point.

When my daughter (only 21months) starts not doing something she has previously done. I don't let her. No, you were able to climb down yesterday, you don't need help today. Obviously, I don't leave her on the stool, but I try to remind her 'this is how you do it' instead of just picking her up and putting her on the floor. Because I want to raise a child who has self confidence in her abilities. I want her to take pride in knowing how to do things and being self sufficient.

My mother told us growing up that after we moved out, if we needed to move back home, she would happily drive us to the woman's shelter. We believed her. We worked hard to be independent.

Turns out, she didn't mean it. And offered for me to come home when I was miserable where I was (but I didn't because she had taught me to make the best of a situation until I could change it). But in her own way, she taught her daughters to make things work. And when it mattered, she reminded us that we really did always have a home at her home if we needed it.

Also, can I come over and get fried chicken lessons from your kids? I am a horrible fryer
__________________
SAHM to Magnolia May (09/10) and Luke Russett (04/13) and wife and best friend to my airman.
EmilytheStrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 06:39 AM   #27
ivparker's Avatar
ivparker
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,557
My Mood:
Re: Really Interesting Article

I totally agree with the article. There are too many adults who can't manage basic life stuff because their parents did everything for them. My dh and I grew up in completely different homes. My Italian immigrated parents were very hands off, more hands off then I'm comfortable with. But... all my siblings and I are very responsible. We can get things done. On the other hand, my dh had parents that were always helping him out. If he didn't know when something was going to be, his dad would call the teacher and ask for him. He would do this all of the time that my dh pretty much never needed to listen to the teacher because he knew that his dad would figure it out. I, on the other hand, always listened because I knew I didn't have my parents to figure things out for me. And now, my dh still hasn't recovered from his upbringing and I sometimes want to scream at my in laws for how they parented him. I am his personal secretary and have to do almost everything except for going to work. And whenever he has a problem, he wants to call his parents and not in a relationship kind of way but just to ask them what to do if something breaks or what car to buy etc. I think sometimes we want to give our kids an enjoyable childhood and feel like they have many years of adulthood to be responsible. But what I truely feel is that learning responsibility is something that is more engrained when you are young. My dh wants to be more responsible but he just has a really difficult time with it. I think its just harder to learn when you are older so we need to teach it to our children when they are young.
__________________
. SAHM to 9:
ivparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 07:01 AM   #28
DalesWidda's Avatar
DalesWidda
Registered Users
Formerly: savmaralamommy
seller
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Delavan, WI
Posts: 5,885
My Mood:
Re: Really Interesting Article

I didn't read the article either but I agree with a lot of the comments. Sure, I want my kids to be kids, play with toys, ride bikes, etc, but they are also expected to pitch in. That's one of the reasons we don't do a chore list. They shouldn't need a chore list. I fully expect them to pitch in when I ask and even when I don't. I ask and they do it, usually pretty willingly. The other day my oldest went out to play and noticed that the garbage can was knocked over, spilling garbage everywhere. Now, many typical kids nowadays would have done one of two things. A: tell mom/dad so that they could clean it up, B: ignore the mess and pretend they didn't see it and act surprised when mom/dad goes outside later and finds it. Instead, my eleven year old picked up the garbage can, grabbed a shovel, and cleaned it up. That's because I expect it of them. I expect them to pitch in and make this household a fully functioning one. I think part of the reason they are so good at helping is because they were home and watching their stepdad die. They had no choice sometimes. If I was busy with him and they wanted cereal, they either got it themselves or starved. I am happy to say that when they grow up and move out, they should have no problems whatsover being self sufficient.
__________________
Tanya mama to three wonderful girls
DalesWidda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 07:02 AM   #29
syfitz's Avatar
syfitz
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,729
My Mood:
Re: Really Interesting Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilytheStrange View Post
I understand that society changes and evolves, but these changes impact things. Everything is interconnected.

I don't think the point is that we need to give our 5yr olds a machete to cut the grass, but it's that we would never ever even think about giving a 5yr old a machete to probably even hold.

IMHO, as I said before, it's about expectations. It's not about whether or not children should be milking cows before school, sewing clothes, etc. It's about whether you would trust your child to do any of those things.

and is it the loss of trust or the loss of ability that impacting society? I say kids are still as capable as they were 100yrs ago at most things. They're as capable in Africa or America or where ever. The point is that parents don't think their children are capable of learning things at a young age - we keep them "young" because we underestimate them.

it's not about comparing societies, it's not about deciding which society was better.. that's not how I read it at all. It's simply about how parents percieve the abilities of children.
I agree. I got some great advice years ago on how to assign chores to my children. Each chore is given to the youngest physically able to complete it. Best advice I ever got to raise competent children.
__________________
Stacey ~ mama to 3 sweet girls and 1 little prince
syfitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 08:08 AM   #30
badmisterkitty's Avatar
badmisterkitty
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,649
Re: Really Interesting Article

I find myself guilty of being an enabler for my kids. Not that I don't think it'll all turn out in the end, but I rather enjoy catering to my kids in many ways. Probably because I work all day and I overcompensate for my absence in the evenings and weekends by showering them with, well, whatever I can. It's honestly never occurred to me even once to make my 4yo get her own snack, though she is surely capable. I'm what's wrong with America, surely, but it doesn't FEEL wrong, KWIM? It's not that I intend to do it all for my kids forever, just for now until....I don't know when. Maybe school age?

The funny thing, though, is when I got pregnant with my 3rd I kept thinking to myself what a great "workforce" I would have someday. Maybe I should set to laying some groundwork for that workforce.

It's an interesting article and I'm enjoying the discussion here!
__________________
Amy ~ Everything in moderation, WOH, glass half full, not committed to any labels, try, try again mama to 3! H 11/07 and M 8/10 and B 8/12
badmisterkitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.